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Trigun - Plant hax revision

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I'm gonna keep this short and sweet but unfortunately I didn't analyze the Plant statements and feats correctly, it's currently accepted as 4-D but this should actually be 5-D to 6-D hax.


Okay so currently we use Nightow's WoG Statements from his old blogs and have it accepted as 4-D hax for Plats overall. However as I said, that was my mistake. In reality it should be 5-D for baseline Plant as this statement is about Plants in general, so Independent Plants would scale above this.


Here's the following statements and the translations.


プラントはプランク的な不確定性を統制しエネルギー、物質、次元の操作など可能だが更には因果律の崩壊や創造が可能で全ての時間軸を含めた多元的宇宙、更に高位の次元にまで及ぶ。プラントの大元と呼べるものが多元的宇宙を遥かに上の高次元そのものであり、全ての始まりそのもの。

Which translates into "The plant can control plank-like uncertainty and manipulate energy, materials, and dimensions, but it can also collapse and create causality, extending to the multiverse including all time axes, and even higher dimensions.. What can be called the origin of the plant is the higher dimension itself far above the multiverse, and the beginning of everything itself.."


So Non-Independent Plants should have 5-D hax as all of their hax is based on their Causality Manipulation and should have their range bumped up to Low 1-C via extending to all of the time-axis's and being above the multiverse. Independent Plants such as base Knives's and Vash would scale above this.




This one is pretty straightforward, Fused Knive's is stated to have obtained a higher level of dimensional existence, so it'd be 6-D hax and HDE via being Infinitely above Base Vash and other Plants which are 5-D.



Now it's time for Mid-Godly, this should be easier to accept now that I have some more supportive evidence.


A dying and forcibly defused Knive's was able to regenerate his whole body after getting nuked by Vash. Vash as a Plant can both destroy matter on a quantum level, and can directly damage one's consciousness. Knive's pulled off this feat after losing literally all of his enegry / life force while severely weakened and de-powered.


Plant regeneration is also based on something abstract in nature, that being Causality itself. Another thing to note is that Plants are never stated nor implied to contain souls as they're essentially a form of artificial life as they were made by humans. Ergo the requirement of Mind, Body and Soul destruction shouldn't be a requirement as Plants lack souls but can regenerate from the destruction of mind and body.


This is definitely the easiest addition here, Vash should have Reactive Evolution as he went from being Infinitely inferior to Knives's to catching up to him instantly.
 
The 5-D, 6-D and Low 1-C stuff look fine at a glance, as well as the Reactive Evolution stuff.

Unsure about Mid-Godly regen, since you would need to regenerate from complete destruction of body, mind and soul, not sure if just simply healing a body with the consciousness being only partly damaged counts.
 
The higher dimensional hax stuff is rather blatant, being dimensionally above a 4D multiverse would 5D, etc. Reactive evolution stuff is simple and looks good too.

I’m unsure of the Mid Godly stuff and how we treat stuff without a soul for that kind of stuff. It should probably be Low Godly if it isn’t already at the bare minimum.
 
Plants don't have souls, so like I said it shouldn't be held against them. They can regenerate from destruction of the mind and body, the mind essentially acts as the soul as they lack a soul to begin with.


Although I can settle for a "possibly." rating for the Mid-Godly.
 
My hesitancy would be in the assumption that just because they don’t have a soul means they can regenerate from attacks with the potency to erase the body, mind, and soul. Idk if we can award them the feat of regening the soul. Maybe something like “Low Godly (can regenerate from the erasure of the body and mind), possibly Mid Godly (since they likely do not have a soul, attacks that erase the soul wouldn’t affect them)” would work? Someone with more experience dealing with weird regen cases should probably comment.
 
My hesitancy would be in the assumption that just because they don’t have a soul means they can regenerate from attacks with the potency to erase the body, mind, and soul. Idk if we can award them the feat of regening the soul. Maybe something like “Low Godly (can regenerate from the erasure of the body and mind), possibly Mid Godly (since they likely do not have a soul, attacks that erase the soul wouldn’t affect them)” would work? Someone with more experience dealing with weird regen cases should probably comment.
^ I can settle with this.
 
Disagree with Mid-Godly as it needs all aspects of your being to be destroyed and you to come back from it to get it, but I guess "possibly" works. So, I guess its "agree" but with the possibly being for Mid-Godly.

Agree with Reactive Evolution and 5D/Low 1-C Range but disagree with 6-D as it says a "different dimension of existence" not a higher dimension. Just because its a different dimension of existence it doesn't mean it's a qualitatively superior one that exists above the 5D...just because he's more powerful than Vash it's not enough for such a big jump.
 
Will post a rebuttal in a second since I think I might have used the wrong translation for the 6-D scan.
 
Disagree with Mid-Godly as it needs all aspects of your being to be destroyed and you to come back from it to get it, but I guess "possibly" works. So, I guess its "agree" but with the possibly being for Mid-Godly.
I can settle for a possibly.

Perhaps "At least Low-Godly, possibly Mid-Godly." would suffice?
Agree with Reactive Evolution and 5D/Low 1-C Range but disagree with 6-D as it says a "different dimension of existence" not a higher dimension. Just because its a different dimension of existence it doesn't mean it's a qualitatively superior one that exists above the 5D...just because he's more powerful than Vash it's not enough for such a big jump.
Hard disagree for this part tbh. It's clear that the context here is meant as an infinite increase, Plant potential is already infinite as stated by Knives's ergo a different level of existence would imply a difference of infinity and is already accepted as such for the verse.


The official translations are basically the same but it uses the term new level of dimensional existence. Both translations would imply an amp of >>> Infinitely 5-D. Non Independent Plants already control and manipulate higher dimensions, Independent Plants are >>>> that to an unfathomable degree and Fused Knive's is implied to be Infinitely above that.
 
Infinite Potential doesn't mean that just because he reached the "different plane of existence" is a higher one, a higher dimension.
 
Infinite Potential doesn't mean that just because he reached the "different plane of existence" is a higher one, a higher dimension.
That's literally what the statement is heavily insinuating. Your interpretation doesn't make much sense as if Fused Knive's were stronger in terms of AP rather than Dimensionality then said statement wouldn't have been made to begin with.


"Higher level of existence." and "different level of dimensional existence." both directly insinuate a jump of infinity. The fact that the term "higher." can be used here also debunks your argument.
 
Damn, Plants from Plants vs zombies are a lot different from what I remember.

I agree with the changes, seems good to me.
 
Everything mentioned in the OP looks good to me. Agree with the others on adding a "possibly" modifier to the Mid-Godly.
 
That's literally what the statement is heavily insinuating. Your interpretation doesn't make much sense as if Fused Knive's were stronger in terms of AP rather than Dimensionality then said statement wouldn't have been made to begin with.


"Higher level of existence." and "different level of dimensional existence." both directly insinuate a jump of infinity. The fact that the term "higher." can be used here also debunks your argument.
I guess we should now give higher D to all people who say their power is of higher dimensions or different one like Kumogawa from Medaka Box or give Aizen higher D and to Ichigo even higher D thanks to the statements in their fight.

It just comparation of his increase of power, to an unknown degree. He state his power is infinite and then of a complete dimension but it doesn't mean it transcended the dimension. To me its too vague to give such a rating on just that when it doesn't even use an adjective that show a superiority.

Not home rn as Im at work so i wont continue to debate this till later... which chapters were these panels taken from as I want us to go over its raw text and see what word is used. If its show a superiority then good I have no problem with him being 6D or higher but till then i'll disagree.
 
give Aizen higher D and to Ichigo even higher D thanks to the statements in their fight
I agree FRA.

which chapters were these panels taken from as I want us to go over its raw text and see what word is used. If its show a superiority then good I have no problem with him being 6D or higher but till then i'll disagree.
I don't know the chapter where the scan of Vash's Reactive Evolution is from but the scan being used to argue 6-D Knives is from Chapter 49.
 
I guess we should now give higher D to all people who say their power is of higher dimensions or different one like Kumogawa from Medaka Box or give Aizen higher D and to Ichigo even higher D thanks to the statements in their fight.
First of all, that's a pretty bad comparison. In Aizen's statement he had that Ichigo was indeed at a higher dimensional level of existence than he was so that already tells me that you don't read Bleach. Secondly Medaka Box's statement is different, the official translations of Knives's statement outright state "a higher level of existence."
It just comparation of his increase of power, to an unknown degree. He state his power is infinite and then of a complete dimension but it doesn't mean it transcended the dimension.
Occam's Razor would dedicate such.
To me its too vague to give such a rating on just that when it doesn't even use an adjective that show a superiority.
Well that's to you, not to be rude but everyone else is on board with the statement.
Not home rn as Im at work so i wont continue to debate this till later... which chapters were these panels taken from as I want us to go over its raw text and see what word is used. If its show a superiority then good I have no problem with him being 6D or higher but till then i'll disagree.

Chapter 49 for the Knives's statement but I can almost assure ya, that you won't be able to find the raws.
 
I found all the raws of the manga. You just have to search in japanese completely and of course, go through tons of websites till you find one from where you can actually download.

I can send the link in private for the website if any of you want to get all raws.



チェックメイト

いえ

同じ盤上の 試合ですらない...

8ヶ月間 他の個体を一 取り込み」 融合を繰り 返した彼は

全く次元の 違う存在に なっているわ...

チェックメイト
Checkmate

いえ
No

同じ盤上の 試合ですらない...
It's not even a game on the same board...

8ヶ月間 他の個体を一 取り込み」 融合を繰り 返した彼は
After eight months of "taking in" other individuals and fusing them back together, he was ready for the next step.

全く次元の 違う存在に なっているわ...
It's become a completely different dimension...

The above is done through Google Translate.
Checkmate

No.

Not even a game on the same board.

After eight months of "taking in" and "fusing" with every other individual, he's...

He's become a whole new level of being...
Deepl translation

As it can be seen its not a really good translation but I will ask on the thread made specially for it to have someone else translate it.

But the first four characters translate as "全く次元" = Mattaku jigen which doesn't seem to be the normal one we see for a superiority used in manga/light novels such as Kō jigen (higher dimension) or Chō jigen (super dimension). I can be totally wrong with that and have nothing to say against it but this is from what I've seen being used in all the threads when such terms were used.

Anyway, I'll wait for the translation to this to be given by someone more adequate.
 
Searched through japanese google in japanese, took a bit, I can send you the link in private as I don't think we're allowed to post directly here. Then it took a while as I downloaded the wrong volumes (can download once at 2h).
 
Nice

When's the Gungrave stuff Gin
Soon.
Searched through japanese google in japanese, took a bit, I can send you the link in private as I don't think we're allowed to post directly here. Then it took a while as I downloaded the wrong volumes (can download once at 2h).
I'll have Arc translate it directly but I still think a possibly 6-D rating would work depending on the context.
 
全く次元の 違う存在に なっているわ...
He reached an entirely different dimension of existence...

Make with this what you will. From my limited knowledge of the series there's a consistency with these plant people evolving to higher dimensions of existence, so this would be consistent with that.
 
Bump.


Are there anymore arguments to be made here? Because it seems like this has been accepted by the vast majority, so I'll keep this open for a few more hours but I would like to conclude this as soon as possible.
 
I'll go message Zarra and see if he has anymore contentions.

Also it's now hard for me to distinguish you and Arc from each other ngl.
 
Just saying the fact that it's stating that Knives reached an entirely different dimension of existence than Vash who has 5-D hax himself should have more implications of dimensional superiority than just a overall increase in strength.
 
I'm still waiting for the translation posted in the specific thread. Idk when it will done tho If it will even be translated but I guess it works.
 
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