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Transformers (Universe) CRT

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Tarn states himself to be weaker than Megatron and Grimlock once defeated Tarn. Also I'd like to throw in Soundwave, Thunderwing, Omega, Monstructor, Titans, Unicron, Functionist Primus and the D-void.

That's why it doesn't really matter. Optimus and Megatron, whom Grimlock is superior to, are much stronger than Tarn.

Sure on Soundwave and D-Void. I forgot about the last one because he wasn't on the IDW section. Unicron is a Universal Singularity, so I didn't count him, and the rest of the profiles have to be made first.

Regenesis Shockwave > D-Void > Unicron > Functionist Primus > Thunderwing > Metroplex/ Trypticon > Prowl-stator/ Scoop-stator/ Optimus maximus > Post-Dark Cybertron Optimus/ Stealth Bomber Megatron > Monstructor/Omega > Black shadow/Nova Prime > Pre-Dark Cybertron Optimus/ Decepticon Megatron/ Devastator > Galvatron/ Arcee/ Sixshot > Base Shockwave/ Grimlock => Autobot Megatron > Overlord/ Tarn > Soundwave

Overlord and the Warrior's Elite are definitely superior to Tarn, who he's never fought personally without being suicidal or completely non-serious (Tarn, on the other hand, was completely serious in this fight). Even before his upgrades, Overlord was a well-known point-one percenter and powerhouse (only defeated in combat by Megatron), which is why he was selected for upgrading. Both Megatron and Starscream are highly afraid of their firepower, individually, and Jazz confirms the likes of Grimlock and Optimus Prime pale in comparison (one of the writers confirm this is past Tarn Jazz is talking about). Autobot Megatron is even weaker than Decepticon Megatron, let alone Overlord.

Also, while Megatron did fight Devastator, he was physically far weaker. Later, Prowl Devastator overpowered Galvatron and singlehandedly overwhelmed a bunch of Decepticons.
 
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ByAsura said:
Autobot Megatron is even weaker than Decepticon Megatron, let alone Overlord
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This is actually false, Ratchet said that Megatron’s weakening was purely psychological, and the moment he regained his confidence, he was back to his levels of strength as “Decepticon Megatron.”
 
I saw that in the discussion thread, but I believe this predates Megatron regaining his confidence. He was also heavily wounded before a nuke-amped Tarn stated he couldn't win against him.
 
Btw Shockwave should have a ‘higher with rage’ tier, since that’s how he was able to stomp the Dinobots.

Really, the IDW Cybertronians seem to get emotion/mindset amps a lot. Optimus went from getting stomped by Nova to bodying him after getting his confidence back, Megatron was drastically weakened to the point that Tarn was stomping him just because he convinced himself he was weaker, and Shockwave went from being dogpiled by the Dinobots to stomping all of them at the same time after getting angry.
 
ByAsura said:
I saw that in the discussion thread, but I believe this predates Megatron regaining his confidence. He was also heavily wounded before a nuke-amped Tarn stated he couldn't win against him.
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Oh, yeah, he was psychologically weakened when Tarn stomped him. I was just saying that like, “Autobot Megatron” doesn’t need to be a key.
 
I'd say that's true. Optimus had some trouble with Galvatron well after Nova was defeated, although he could one-shot him at point-blank range and tear his head off.
 
Is it consistent enough to add that (I’m pretty sure there’s a power about emotion amps) to the P&A of all IDW Cybertronians, or just Optimus, Megatron and Shockwave?
 
ByAsura said:
Overlord and the Warrior's Elite are definitely superior to Tarn, who he's never fought personally without being suicidal or completely non-serious (Tarn, on the other hand, was completely serious in this fight). Even before his upgrades, Overlord was a well-known point-one percenter and powerhouse (only defeated in combat by Megatron), which is why he was selected for upgrading. Both Megatron and Starscream are highly afraid of their firepower, individually, and Jazz confirms the likes of Grimlock and Optimus Prime pale in comparison (one of the writers confirm this is past Tarn Jazz is talking about). Autobot Megatron is even weaker than Decepticon Megatron, let alone Overlord.
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I agree on the Phase sixers > Tarn, although I should point out Tarn kills the alternate Overlord, although that Overlord was basically depressed.

Prowl isn't exactly right. As we see, Tarn is weaker than Megatron. Optimus was able to contend with Sixshot and seemed to gain the upper hand 3 times. Megatron was able to kill some of the reapers, who Sixshot claimed were toying with him. If Optmus and Megatron truly paled in comparison to the phase sixers, then the aforementioned events wouldn't even happen. It's also implied Prowl doesn't have the best memory. Also the best feat we see Overlord do is mess around with Tarn so as far as that goes. It's likely that not all phase sixers are comparable to each other.

The off-switch seems more of a convenience thing. In this panel, Megatron claims he can take care off himself. Like, why would you travel across the galaxy just to fight a guy who is rebelling and slaughtering your troops when you can just off him from the get-go.

Also how should we arrange the keys so far?
At current, it's Pre-Dark Cybertron and Post-Dark Cybertron Optimus, Shockwave, higher with rage, as well as Decepticons megs, SB megs and Autobots megs.

I feel like we should just leave the scaling as is for now and focus on the AP, speed and calc all the remaining notable feats in here. The blog is an in the works, preview of my IDW CRT. We can discuss scaling in that CRT.
 
No Autobot Megatron, he should just have Base | Stealth Bomber.
 
Autobot Megatron somewhat inferior though. Pre-Dark Cybertron Optimus is able to contend with Galvatron while Galvatron ripped Autobot Megatron in two. It's also implied that Autobot Megatron could've have killed Galvatron later. Autobot Megatron is comparable if not slightly weaker than his decepticon counterpart.

Also is there anyone willing, or crazy enough, to do all the calcs in the blog?
 
No, Galvatron did not rip “Autobot Megatron” in half, because “Autobot Megatron” doesn’t exist. Megatron was just psychologically weakened, and that was why he got annihilated by Tarn. During Dark Cybertron, Megatron had no such mental handicaps.
 
The body Megs had in mtmte is the same he had in Dark Cybertron. Physically, the Megatron that stomped Tarn is the same as the Megatron that got ripped by Galvatron as they were in the same state of mind.
 
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They have the same body, they are not the same mentally, which is what made Megatron vastly weaker against Tarn. Emotions and mental states can make Cybertronians stronger or weaker.
 
LordTracer said:
They have the same body, they are not the same mentally, which is what made Megatron vastly weaker against Tarn. Emotions and mental states can make Cybertronians stronger or weaker.
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I know that. I agree with that. But I'm referring to the MTMTE Megatron that stomped the DJD and not the MTMTE Megatron that got wrecked by Tarn in a graveyard and was very depressed.

Dark Cybertron Megatron = MTMTE Megatron after getting his confidence back and stomping the DJD > MTMTE Megatron before getting his confidence back and getting stomped by Tarn

I'm referring to him as Autobot Megatron as he became an Autobot during period of time.

I completely agree with IDW emotional amps. Optimus is an example. He's seemingly weaker whenever he doesn't want to fight or is holding back. Optimus also states that he goes all-out only against characters like Megatron or Thunderwing
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Dark Cybertron Megatron = MTMTE Megatron after getting his confidence back and stomping the DJD > MTMTE Megatron before getting his confidence back and getting stomped by Tarn
Click to expand...
I never said this wasn’t true. I just said that the idea of “Autobot Megatron” does not exist and it’s just Megatron while emotionally handicapped.
 
This is getting way too voluminous. What are the conclusions so far and what needs to still be discussed?
 
IDW AP. There are quite some feats that need to be calced and we haven't decided whether we should use High 6-A or not.

Everything else seems to be fine and can be applied I think
 
Ok, so here's my proposal based on all of the calced feats we have here: "At least 7-B, Likely High 6-A"

Firstly, The skyscraper feat is actually 8-A+ to Low 7-C according to the References for Common Feats page. Megatron surviving impact is 8-A, using the same formula for the bayformers feat of re-entry. These feats are also casual feats. The injuries Megatron have after he came out of the crater didn't come from the impact and he was beaten to near death prior.

The Tsar Bomba is the strongest tactical nuclear weapon, at 58 Megatons, making it City level+. I'm not putting it at mountain level due to the fact the the bomb is only potentially at 7-A. The kinetic harpoon is stated to be stronger than a tactical nuclear weapon.

Optimus should be able to survive the kinetic harpoon as weaker characters who were closer to it all survived it, albeit he should get quite some damage from it. The gap between 7-B and 7-C isn't as ridiculous as High 6-A. So Pyro seems more sensible. It also lines up by SB megs actually getting hurt by the kinetic harpoon, who claimed he could one-shot a city.

However, there are also quite some story implications and feats that place these characters at High 6-A, to the point we can't just say these are outliers like we did with tier 2. I'd say it's more likely that the kinetic harpoon injuring the cast is the outlier, rather than tier 6, but until we get the other calcs, I'll just reserve my judgement

There are still 9 important feats that need to be calced, and they look to be ranging from tier 7 to tier 6, so this may change in the future.

Thoughts?
 
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So, right now I'd say Prime, Grimlock, the Dinobots, the Seekers, Scorponok, and Dai Atlas, scale to High 6-A, seeing as they tanked the refinery explosion that killed countless regular Cybertonians. The inconsistency that the Kinetic Harpoon brings up with Prime makes it iffy, so maybe Possibly High 6-A is better for him. However, that still leaves the Seekers, the Dinobots, Scorponok, and Dai Atlas tanking it with no inconsistencies (to my knowledge).

Other characters that directly scale to characters that took the explosion:


Maybe you could include Tarn because of his fight with Grimlock, but it wasn't described as much of a contest. This is all I have time for atm, so I may have missed someone. Lmk if I did.
 
Shouldn’t Tarn get High 6-A durability, at least, since he survived a bunch of hits from Grimlock?
 
We're planning to include characters that only largely scale to Optimus and Megatron. Star saber and Dai atlas don't really do that, or bascially characters in the blog. But save the scaling for later. Right now we're focusing on AP.

I'd go with either "Likely/Possibly High 6-A" or "At least 7-B, Likely High 6-A"

Is there anyone willing to do the calcs for the other feats?
 
What has been accepted by our staff here?
 
Pretty much everything else other than IDW. The changes can be applied by someone who's free. I'm waiting for ByAsura and 00potato for their thoughts on my proposal. Once the AP is decided, the thread can be closed
 
Okay. Thank you for the clarification.
 
I'm going to take some time. There's a lot to absorb and address.
 
Okay. No problem. Thank you for helping out.
 
Turns out it didn't take very much time at all.

This is getting way too voluminous. What are the conclusions so far and what needs to still be discussed?

So far everyone seems to agree with everything. IDW is still being discussed and the WFC profiles are being deleted due to nebulous canon and lack of feats.

IDW Unicron is not part of the Unicron singularity, as the events of the shrouding take place before the events of the Unicron arc in IDW.

Ok, then, but IDW Unicron doesn't have a profile. In fact, his regular profile appears to include IDW. Doesn't this one still count as an avatar in some shape or form, though?

I agree on the Phase sixers > Tarn, although I should point out Tarn kills the alternate Overlord, although that Overlord was basically depressed.

Depression/mindset does affect the power of Transformers. Given that Overlord was casually matching a very serious Tarn, the difference isn't inconsiderable. You can also see the entire DJD here, so it's likely not just him. Since we agree Tarn < Overlord, I'll skip past these points later.

Optimus was able to contend with Sixshot and seemed to gain the upper hand 3 times. Megatron was able to kill some of the reapers, who Sixshot claimed were toying with him. If Optmus and Megatron truly paled in comparison to the phase sixers, then the aforementioned events wouldn't even happen. It's also implied Prowl doesn't have the best memory. Also the best feat we see Overlord do is mess around with Tarn so as far as that goes. It's likely that not all phase sixers are comparable to each other.

I'd say it's the same thing I said before: the Six-Changers are known for their sheer firepower. While Six-Shot has fought Optimus (I'd say Six-Shot also had the advantage at many points in these fights), his firepower is much greater than Megatron. Prowl's memory would normally be a good explanation, but the writer confirmed it was something else.

The off-switch seems more of a convenience thing. In this panel, Megatron claims he can take care off himself. Like, why would you travel across the galaxy just to fight a guy who is rebelling and slaughtering your troops when you can just off him from the get-go.

He seems to more be putting Starscream in place with that comment, as he's far more powerful. The fact that he calls Six-Shot a living weapon suggests it's due to firepower.

I never said this wasn’t true. I just said that the idea of “Autobot Megatron” does not exist and it’s just Megatron while emotionally handicapped.

I could remove the key and put a note in the profile. I'd appreciate if you gave me the scan where (Ratchet?) says this.

Firstly, The skyscraper feat is actually 8-A+ to Low 7-C according to the References for Common Feats page. Megatron surviving impact is 8-A, using the same formula for the bayformers feat of re-entry. These feats are also casual feats. The injuries Megatron have after he came out of the crater didn't come from the impact and he was beaten to near death prior.

That's for fragmenting a skyscraper. Collapsing or splitting it in two is Large Building level.

The Tsar Bomba is the strongest tactical nuclear weapon, at 58 Megatons, making it City level+. I'm not putting it at mountain level due to the fact the the bomb is only potentially at 7-A. The kinetic harpoon is stated to be stronger than a tactical nuclear weapon.

The Tsar Bomba isn't a tactical nuclear weapon. Tactical nukes are far lower in yield, though tens to hundreds of kilotons in modern times. This is why I put Stealth Bomber Megatron as at least Town level.

- Megatron has civilization destroying capacities (High 6-A)
He actually said his railgun has the power to threaten civilizations, which may only be in the Large Country level range, at best. Given the context, it's implied normal Megatron has this level of power, as well.

- Swindle's weapon (High 6-A)
Drawing the power of a star is unknown. Though it could be High 6-A if the weapon absorbs a star's entire output for a few seconds.

- All Hail Megatron Bomb (6-C)
As I said before, this bomb would've killed the Autobots. Thundercracker also didn't appear to take the bomb, just let it fly into space.

- Overlord fights a FTL capable cruiser (FTL)
It was an FTL capable empire. This means he didn't necessarily keep up with them.

- Skywarp and blitzwing create a huge crater
To be accurate, they damaged a bunker and collapsed it. The crater is the result of the displaced ground, not their weapons.
 
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Thank you. That seems fine to apply then.
 
Devastator making a large tidal wave could significantly increase the baseline yields given that destroying the Skyscraper and tank weren't exactly feats Megatron did with a lot of effort.

I'd still say falling from orbit scales to Continent level Megatron given that the refinery exploded in this comic.
 
Those feats are supposed on their own in a vacuum. If that were the case, the kinetic harpoon would be 7-B via Megatron claiming he could one-shot a city earlier in the same comic. Still waiting for 00potato's opinion
 
Unless he's a glass cannon, which isn't unlikely.
 
Fair point. But if that were the case, wouldn't the kinetic harpoon be 7-B by harming SB megs?
 
That's why I said "unless he's a glass cannon". The railgun could be far more powerful than his durability and the harpoon.

The railgun is also city level while uncharged.
 
Also I'm not sure of this needs a calc, but what's the AP for this. Skywarp destroys under half of beijing in an hour
 
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