Transformers (Universe) CRT

[Emirp sumitpo]

Fair point.

Also how many tier 7 feats are there in IDW compared to tier 6 ones?

Characters such as Optimus and Megatron have been consistently potrayed to be abnormally strong cybertronians, and are able to face off against characters who are designed to destroy entire worlds by themselves, such as sixshot and the ravagers. Even characters such as Starscream, who is obviously much weaker than characters than Optimus and Megatron and isn't all that much stronger than the average cybertronian, was able hold his own against the ravagers.

Chromedome, who was inside Overlord's mind when he said this, says that Phase sixers are even able to shave an inch off a planet

 

[00potato]

Overlord’s statement is questionable for a few reasons.

1: Overlord is considered extremely dangerous, even needing an off-switch of sorts. Hard to scale him to the rest.

2 Shave an inch is often used as a figure of speech. It is strange to take it extremely literally.

Also the Sixshot and Ravagers being designed to destroy worlds seems more planet level then continent, which is an even bigger outlier as that is what superweapons are capable of.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I meant as in destroying the surface of the planet, not the planet itself. The ravagers are able to ravage worlds to the point of those worlds are practically dead. I was a bit vague on that part

Statement was also by chromedome and not overlord. Chromedome was looking through Overlord's memories, because Overlord refused to talk because megatron didn't pay attention to him.

 

[00potato]

The statement is also vauge we don’t have a time signature and we know more then one exist.

I know who said the statement. It is about overlord so it is his statement for the sake of this discussion. It doesn’t change the questionablility of the statement.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

1. The point of the sixshot, or the phase sixers in general, is that they are made to attack worlds who are on the brink of collapse or vulnerable to attack. It's likely the timeframe for that is pretty short since that world won't be able to struggle. It's also implied that the ravagers weren't together in the beginning and spawned from different worlds. They just one day decided to rebel against their respective masters and then they united.

2. Chromedome was looking through Overlord's memories prior. I don't see why he couldn't went ahead and seen Overlord razing a world.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the summarised conclusions so far here that have been accepted by our staff?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

We're talking about the AP for the IDW characters and Spinosaurus' calc has yet to be evaluated and newendigo's calc request has yet to be done, although we're most likely just gonna use the former anyway.

The others seem fine and can probably be updated as accordingly.

I'm preparing another IDW CRT that relates to scaling for the characters. I'm just waiting for the confirmed AP then this thread can be concluded.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[ByAsura]

@Emirp I'm going to have to read through IDW to determine the consistency of Tier 6 and 7 feats. I suppose we can go with a possibly rating.

The Warrior's Elite definitely have stronger arsenals than Starscream and Megatron.

There's a one CRT per universe rule. So you have to wait until this entire thread is concluded or dead.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

How High into High 6-A is G1? Like in petatons.

 

[ByAsura]

I'm not sure.

It also turns out the bazooka that guy used against the Autobot was reverse engineered from Transformer technology.

Here's the feats. There's a few more on this wiki.

• Optimus and Megatron fight, creating shockwaves that damage buildings.
• Megatron, who's 20 tons, survives falling from orbit after being crippled by Optimus shortly after he'd become a Prime. Notably, despite being nearly knocked out when he dropped, Megatron's strong enough to one-shot Junkions after falling. This proves the damage was minor, at best.
• Megatron's gun mode survived getting a city block dropped on it. The impact damage and shattered Megatron's transformation cog.
• Stealth-Bomber Megatron claims his railgun has civilization threatening capabilities. Given that his uncharged attacks can apparently destroy cities, this makes sense.
• Starscream blows a hole through Metal.
• Starscream damages an asteroid crater.
• Stealth-Bomber Megatron tackles Starscream (who'd just collapsed an asteroid cave on him) through an asteroid and through another, destroying half of one in the process. He then proceeds to punch Starscream hard enough to split Transformer-sized asteroids in two, and tackle him hard enough to crater a different asteroid.
• Megatron collapses a skyscraper with one blast.
• The Decepticons tank 20 mm cannon fire. However, they did seem concerned with missiles (hence the deflected missiles in the panel). Megatron also sends Frenzy to attack guided missiles.
• Devastator creates a huge tidal wave that destroys failing bridges and floods tunnels.
• It's unknown what or which Decepticons did this, but a huge aircraft carrier was seen capsized with a chunk taken out of it.
• Astrotrain collapses a subway.
• Megatron crushes a tank.
• Frenzy survives an RPG to the head, albeit he gets knocked out.
• Megatron fights, damages and withstands blows from Devastator.
• Devastator knocks down a skyscraper.
• Bumblebee stops a small building from collapsing, albeit with effort.
• Galvatron, who was consistently portrayed comparable to Arcee in this whole comic-line, survives violently falling from orbit.
• Overlord fights an FTL capable Empire with similarly advanced military technology. He's slightly out of his league, but crushes the whole Empire with a Decepticon Squadron.
• Starscream blasts Megatron through a hill.
• Skywarp and Blitzwing collapse a bunker by firing at it from the surface.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Should I send notifications to several calc group members to help you to calculate the more important feats?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm not sure if you know this but that wiki was made by a banned VSbattles wiki user who was quite problematic from what I understand

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he was very knowledgeable regarding Transformers at least.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm not sure.

It also turns out the bazooka that guy used against the Autobot was reverse engineered from Transformer technology.

Here's the feats. There's a few more on this wiki.

• Optimus and Megatron fight, creating shockwaves that damage buildings.
• Megatron, who's 20 tons, survives falling from orbit after being crippled by Optimus shortly after he'd become a Prime. Notably, despite being nearly knocked out when he dropped, Megatron's strong enough to one-shot Junkions after falling. This proves the damage was minor, at best.
• Megatron's gun mode survived getting a city block dropped on it. The impact damage and shattered Megatron's transformation cog.
• Stealth-Bomber Megatron claims his railgun has civilization threatening capabilities. Given that his uncharged attacks can apparently destroy cities, this makes sense.
• Starscream blows a hole through Metal.
• Starscream damages an asteroid crater.
• Stealth-Bomber Megatron tackles Starscream (who'd just collapsed an asteroid cave on him) through an asteroid and through another, destroying half of one in the process. He then proceeds to punch Starscream hard enough to split Transformer-sized asteroids in two, and tackle him hard enough to crater a different asteroid.
• Megatron collapses a skyscraper with one blast.
• The Decepticons tank 20 mm cannon fire. However, they did seem concerned with missiles (hence the deflected missiles in the panel). Megatron also sends Frenzy to attack guided missiles.
• Devastator creates a huge tidal wave that destroys failing bridges and floods tunnels.
• It's unknown what or which Decepticons did this, but a huge aircraft carrier was seen capsized with a chunk taken out of it.
• Astrotrain collapses a subway.
• Megatron crushes a tank.
• Frenzy survives an RPG to the head, albeit he gets knocked out.
• Megatron fights, damages and withstands blows from Devastator.
• Devastator knocks down a skyscraper.
• Bumblebee stops a small building from collapsing, albeit with effort.
• Galvatron, who was consistently portrayed comparable to Arcee in this whole comic-line, survives violently falling from orbit.
• Overlord fights an FTL capable Empire with similarly advanced military technology. He's slightly out of his league, but crushes the whole Empire with a Decepticon Squadron.

Would this affect the AP for IDW? None of them seem to contradict the High 6-A feat

 

[00potato]

They seem consistently far below tier 6.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

A lot of them seem to be casual feats tho. The closest that seems to contradict High 6-A is this

Megatron's gun mode survived getting a city block dropped on it. The impact damage and shattered Megatron's transformation cog.

But prime was using a superweapon that supposedly to causes tremors and it's not specific on what kind of city block it's reffering to. It's definitely not earth cityblocks as that has never happened. It could be cybertronian cityblocks. And common cybertronian buildings, when compared to cybertronian, are like humans compared to skyscrapers. So regular cybertronian city blocks should already dwarf human cityblocks and skyscrapers. So Optimus was using a superweapon that causes earthquake to drop massive buildings that are made of far superior materials to earth's, to drop a cybertronian equivalent of a city block full of skyscrapers on a defenseless megatron. However, I feel it's a bit too vague to be used

 

[00potato]

Most of the feats look far lower.
Mega was, while injured nearly knocked out by an orbital fall.
Frenzy took notable damage from an RPG.
Mega was damaged by a city block, even a very large one would not be close to tier 6
The rest of the feats are just very low. Splitting asteroids in two, building damage. Not what a tier 6 would likely do.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I still don't understand how these contradict the tier 6 ones. Megatron was very much already damaged in both situations. Megatron walked out of the crater just fine. Megatron was holding back against starscream and him destroying asteroids seemed pretty casual.

Frenzy is consistently portrayed as being very weak and doesn't scale to the refinery explosion, and we know only the top tiers survived because numerous cybertronians died that day and those cybertronians weren't even near the explosion

It's been stated that Optimus could wipe out humanity if he wanted to. Optimus and megatron are listed as abnormally powerful cybertonians who are on par with cybertronians made specifically to raze entire worlds. And phase sixers being these strong beings capable of wiping out civilizations on their own has been consistent throughout it's entire run.

Only the top tiers really scale to the explosion because they were the only characters there. I doubt regular transformers are actually High 6-A

 

[00potato]

Most of the “wiping out civilization.” and the phase sixers Quotes are both a bit vauge and contradicted by the more consistent lower feats, even by high tiers.
He may have been injured, but even then that would not lower his durability so much that a fall such as that would hurt him.

 

[ByAsura]

"Mega was, while injured nearly knocked out by an orbital fall."

The fall didn't knock him out. He was on the verge of being unconscious (while half-dead, might I add) before being ejected by Scorponok and then took the fall, yet he was completely conscious right after.

 

[ByAsura]

Spino's done the Beast Wars calc.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Does the Overlord FTL thing increase any of the character's speeds?

 

[ByAsura]

The Six-Changers come to mind.

Astrotrain may have a Massively FTL+ feat, and characters like Thundercracker have flown from Earth's orbit to space, which is High Hypersonic+.

Edit: They built a space bridge in NYC, but the Decepticons never used it. Instead, they boarded Astrotrain after leaving Earth's orbit and flew 640 light-years. It's implied he travelled across this entire distance rather than taking another ship or space bridge.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So flights speeds are getting massively upgraded from what I understand. Characters who seem to scale to him are Optimus, soundwave, the phase sixers and the seekers. Thunderwing also flew across the galaxy I think

According to this, Astrotrain implies he can fly faster than light speed. He says Galvatron will get torn apart if he goes out but considering Optimus, Arcee and soundwave are just fine. I doubt what Astrotrain says is true.

Would this apply for reaction and combat speeds? I doubt movement speed would be changed.

 

[ByAsura]

Astrotrain might mean if he continues to accelerate.

Cosmo implied his beams were also getting faster as they travelled, so I'm not sure.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

He says that if he goes faster he'll outrun his own lasers

 

[ByAsura]

Ok.

I'm adding some feats to that list.

"But prime was using a superweapon that supposedly to causes tremors and it's not specific on what kind of city block it's reffering to. It's definitely not earth cityblocks as that has never happened. It could be cybertronian cityblocks. And common cybertronian buildings, when compared to cybertronian, are like humans compared to skyscrapers. So regular cybertronian city blocks should already dwarf human cityblocks and skyscrapers. So Optimus was using a superweapon that causes earthquake to drop massive buildings that are made of far superior materials to earth's, to drop a cybertronian equivalent of a city block full of skyscrapers on a defenseless megatron. However, I feel it's a bit too vague to be used"

I didn't see this earlier. Given that it's called the geo scoop, the machine likely takes chunks out of the ground. It's just made by the Tremorcons, who've never been shown in IDW. The battle was on Cybertron, so yes, they are Cybertronian city blocks and should make Earth ones look like anthills (as Megatron called Earth cities anthills).

 

[ByAsura]

I've been looking through some more feats and I've realised that the differences in power are more due to the different comic lines. For example, Monstrosity and comic-lines with similar art portray Megatron as being far above his Robots in Disguise or More than Meets the Eye counterpart. Here's what I have in mind for him.

Megatron:
Attack Potency: Large Building level (Managed to stagger Regenesis Shockwave in a fit of rage, although he was swiftly overpowered. Collapsed a skyscraper, easily crushed a tank) to Multi-Continent level (Can fight and harm Optimus Prime, who tanked the explosion of the Toraxxis Mega-Refinery at near-point blank range) | At least Large Building level to Multi-Continent level (Vastly more powerful than before. Claimed that his railgun could destroy cities without being fully charged and had civilization-threatening power)

Durability: Large Building level (Withstood blows from Devastator, who created a tidal wave large enough to flood a substantial portion of Manhattan and collapse damaged bridges. Survived an attack from Regenesis Shockwave, although he was defeated almost instantly) to Multi-Continent level (Tanked a fall from orbit while heavily damaged. Survived the impact of a Cybertronian city block in his significantly more fragile gun-mode, though he was heavily damaged) | Town level to Multi-Continent level (Has no-sold fire from the likes of Starscream, Optimus Prime and much of the Autobot forces on Earth. Tanked a shot from the Kinetic Harpoon, which is more powerful than a tactical nuclear weapon)

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it qould be much preferable if we had calculations, rather than estimations, for all of the mentioned feats.

Should I ask some calc group members to help us out?

 

[ByAsura]

Spino has done the refinery explosion, which is Multi-Continent level. Collapsing a skyscraper/creating an explosion as large as a skyscraper's base is also Large Building level.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You should always link to all of the relevant calculations within the profile pages though.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I've been looking through some more feats and I've realised that the differences in power are more due to the different comic lines. For example, Monstrosity and comic-lines with similar art portray Megatron as being far above his Robots in Disguise or More than Meets the Eye counterpart. Here's what I have in mind for him.

Megatron:
Attack Potency: Large Building level (Collapsed a skyscraper, easily crushed a tank), possibly Multi-Continent level (Can fight and harm Optimus Prime, who tanked the explosion of the Toraxxis Mega-Refinery at near-point blank range) | At least Large Building level (Vastly more powerful than before), possibly Multi-Continent level (Claimed that his railgun could destroy cities without being fully charged and had civilization-threatening power) | Large Building level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Managed to stagger Regenesis Shockwave in a fit of rage, although he was swiftly overpowered)

Durability: Large Building level (Withstood blows from Devastator, who created a tidal wave large enough to flood a substantial portion of Manhattan and collapse damaged bridges), possibly Multi-Continent level (Tanked a fall from orbit while heavily damaged. Survived the impact of a Cybertronian city block in his significantly more fragile gun-mode, though he was heavily damaged) | Likely Town level (Has no-sold fire from the likes of Starscream, Optimus Prime and much of the Autobot forces on Earth. Tanked a shot from the Kinetic Harpoon, which is more powerful than a tactical nuclear weapon), possibly Multi-Continent level | Large Building level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Survived an attack from Regenesis Shockwave, although he was defeated almost instantly)

I'm neutral at the moment but High 8-C is too low, considering IDW Transformers are able to survive re-entry. Using the same formula for the bay formers, Megatron should be 8-A at the very least.

There also some other feats that I feel should be calced. I'll collect them when I'm more free. And at this point, I should just make a giant blog of what is or isn't outlier feat in IDW.

I'd say we just have every notable feat calced and figure things out from there.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Also, several other decepticons were near the explosion of the kinetic harpoon thing and closer to it than prime was. Saw regular megs should also be 7-C

 

[ByAsura]

It's true that they have 8-A feats, but Large Building level is more consistent, hence the lower end. Megatron also withstood this while heavily weakened, so I put it in the Multi-Continent level bracket. I could say Large Building level to Multi-Continent level to make this more clear.

Prime, who wasn't close, was pretty heavily damaged. Safe to say they were as well. The only one who tanked the attack was Megatron, who took it at point-blank range.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So who scales from here?

 

[ByAsura]

I was thinking we could cut it down to people that largely scale to Megatron and Optimus, or have good feats. Here's the list (excluding those two, obviously).

• Grimlock (Tarn scaling doesn't really matter because he's superior to Optimus and Megatron)
• Sixshot, Overlord or Black Shadow (One or all is ok)
• Arcee
• Galvatron
• Nova Prime
• Shockwave
• Devastator

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Tarn scaling doesn't really matter because he's superior to Optimus and Megatron

Tarn states himself to be weaker than Megatron and Grimlock once defeated Tarn. Also I'd like to throw in Soundwave, Thunderwing, Omega, Monstructor, Titans, Unicron, Functionist Primus and the D-void.

This is my take on the scaling chain (characters beside one another are likely or are comparable to one another):

Regenesis Shockwave > D-Void > Unicron > Functionist Primus > Thunderwing > Metroplex/ Trypticon > Prowl-stator/ Scoop-stator/ Optimus maximus > Post-Dark Cybertron Optimus/ Stealth Bomber Megatron > Monstructor/Omega > Black shadow/Nova Prime > Pre-Dark Cybertron Optimus/ Decepticon Megatron/ Devastator > Galvatron/ Arcee/ Sixshot > Base Shockwave/ Grimlock => Autobot Megatron > Overlord/ Tarn > Soundwave

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Ok, so I placed the most notable IDW feats in this blog as well as some feats that need to be calced, and boy there are a lot of feats that need to be calced.

The blog is basically a preview for my IDW CRT and it's still a work in progress. It will be updated as accordingly.

 

[Antvasima]

I trust ByAsura's sense of judgement.