Transformers (Universe) CRT

[Emirp sumitpo]

A question about tier 7. The argument for the kinetic harpoon is that the explosion wasn't anywhere near High 6-A, but the thing is, it's not like the explosion was anywhere near 7-C either. It looks to be nearly around 8-B.

According to Attack Potency page: "The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack." as well as "A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces."

Just because they are High 6-A doesn't mean they have to level entire continents whenever they shoot blasts out of their guts.

The keyword for the kinetic harpoon is that it's stronger than a tactical nuclear weapon. There's nothing saying it wasn't strong enough to damage High 6-A characters. If we were to go off character's AP vi area of effect. The Bayformers would be far lower than their rating because characters like Megatron don't level entire city blocks.

Also I agree with what LordTracer stated earlier in the thread about 7-B Megatron: "Boasting about what you can destroy is meant to be impressive to whoever you’re talking to, it doesn’t have to be indicative of your limit"

Also just to add this. According to Transformers continuum, It's stated that Thunderwing possessed the power to destroy the planet, placing him at 5-A. However, the book was not written by Simon Furman, the guy who wrote Strombringer, the implication that a planetary nuke could kill him plus some characters "surviving" getting smacked by Thunderwing says otherwise. At best, this would give Thunderwing "X, Possibly 5-A"

some guidebook claiming his strength was sending shockwaves throughout the universe.

That's a 3-B to 3-A feat and Massively FTL+ if I'm not mistaken, but it's not like it matters because if I remember right that came from a toy bio unrelated to IDW. I'll try find it

 

[ByAsura]

Do you mean it's a potential argument? Because I never argued that.

If the Kinetic Harpoon were capable of High 6-A feats, they would've mentioned it. The fact that they chose the term "tactical nuclear weapon" rather than something like "hydrogen bomb" seems to imply that it's not stronger than all Earth weaponry. This argument just seems to be a little bit of a reach, IMO, and IDW itself isn't consistent.

You're right. It doesn't indicate any limitations, especially since he outright says it wasn't fully charged, which is why I put it in Megatron's High 6-A justification.

Destroying a planet itself is fairly vague, and could mean devastate its surface. Given that Thunderwing didn't destroy Nebulous or any planet during his mindless rampage, I don't think it should even apply.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I wasn't referring to you for that first part. Also fair point for that

For this: "The phase-sixers make worlds conquerable for Cybertron by killing populations. Technically, someone that can launch nuclear-level attacks could be able to do this in a relatively short period of time. In fact, it would probably be preferable to Megatron if they didn't use Tier 6 firepower to attack planets." The reapers are proof that Sixshot can pretty much perform the same feat. And those 2 things happened in the same comic.

The statement clearly says: destroys the planet and not something like: destroy the world. That being said, I agree 5-A should just be thrown out the window.

Also, what is your current rating for IDW and what exactly contradicts High 6-A?

 

[ByAsura]

Large Building level to Multi-Continent level, similar to the Spongebob universe.

 

[Caleb3429]

Large Building level to Multi-Continent level, similar to the Spongebob universe.

This sounds alright to me. If we all agree on this, I can get started on the changes.

 

[ByAsura]

I'd prefer to handle them. I have some specific things in mind.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I still have some calcs that are being made by Drite77. So wait for that I guess. Also I have another IDW crt in the works, regarding scaling and some upgrades for others and profile removals and more. I just need the AP for this thread. So don't change anything yet.

BTW, should we place notes explaining IDW inconsistencies on the profiles if we do end up going with dual options?

 

[ByAsura]

Sure.

 

[Caleb3429]

I'd prefer to handle them. I have some specific things in mind.

That's fine. I'm pretty busy right now anyway. I'm just used to taking care the IDW profiles is all.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

What is the exact AP for the strongest tactical nuclear weapon? Strongest I can find is this, but it's stated to be strategic nuclear weapon and 400 kilotons at it's strongest, so nope.

 

[Primestar3]

Thought?
https://vsbattles.com/threads/transformers-general-discussion.107605/page-3#post-3409473

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

That's not exactly relevant to the IDW comics

 

[Primestar3]

That's not exactly relevant to the IDW comics

This thread isn't just IDW tho.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It isn't about the live action movies either. The only thing we're discussing is IDW because everything else is concluded. I'll take a look at your stuff in a while

 

[Primestar3]

It isn't about the live action movies either. The only thing we're discussing is IDW because everything else is concluded. I'll take a look at your stuff in a while

The thread creator says this is Universe-wide and that we can bring up new stuff as the main points are thoroughly discussed. It seems it's almost over anyway besides IDW, but whatever it doesn't matter. Bayverse can be discussed in that other thread.

 

[ByAsura]

Titan comics doesn't have profiles. Also, IDW isn't that close to finishing, we're still discussing things, so we can circle back to this later.

@Emirp How are the IDW calcs going?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Just to add on to the kinetic harpoon thing. It's implied to be a very sophisticated weapon by human standards and was enhanced by Jetfire.

What is the exact AP for the strongest tactical nuclear weapon? Strongest I can find is this, but it's stated to be strategic nuclear weapon and 400 kilotons at it's strongest, so nope.

Also this ^

 

[ByAsura]

Does Jetfire enhance the weapon or fire it? That scan isn't very indicative.

I couldn't find an exact answer, but the highest I did find was around the 75 kiloton range. However, stronger than a tactical nuke doesn't mean stronger than any tactical nuke ever created.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Supposedly enhance, considering that when Spike tells Optimus about the weapon it was theoretical and still needed funding. Jetfire presumably made the weapon and likely enhanced with cybertronian stuff, as a lot of skywatch's tech is reverse-cybertronian.

Drite says he might give input in here later

 

[ByAsura]

Optimus did say the weapon eclipsed technology made 3 years ago. However, a many modern railguns are bleeding-edge technology IRL.

Ok.

I'm looking into some more Six-Phaser and Transformers speed feats.

 

[ByAsura]

Here's a few speed feats. Obviously there's also Astrotrain and Cosmos traveling to Jupiter, the superluminal statement, etc.

• Metroplex flies off planet in his alt-mode. The dust still kicking up suggests this happened in a matter of moments.
• Sixshot chases a few Autobots two planets over in a matter of hours, keeping up with their ship throughout the entire journey.
• Using the enlarged spaceship alt-mode of Skip (this is the aftereffect), a Decepticon, the Lost Light crew travel seemingly interstellar distances.
• Sky Lynx travels from Earth to Space very quickly.
• Cosmos intercepts a nuke in the mid-flight phase, which travel near mach 20.
• Cosmos travels 5 light-hours. Prowl orders him back at full speed near night-time and he's there within the same night. Shortly after the talk with Cosmos, Prime says he'll get to Bikini Atoll in 15 minutes, and Cosmos doesn't arrive that far after (read RID #31-32 for context). This means the feat can easily be FTL+.
• Soundwave keeps up with Cosmos in space and on a moon of Jupiter (notably, they travelled from one moon to another very quickly, which are very far apart).
• Omega Supreme travels from Earth to Cybertron in Chaos Theory, clearly passing planets on the journey. The trip itself was well, well within the confines of 2011. This is FTL no matter what.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Noice. Does this scale for reaction and combat speed? I think it's possible they can scale for FTL+ from cosmos. I don't think any of them scale from Astrotrain's MFTL+ feat in AHM

Which are the most note worthy and should be added?

 

[ByAsura]

Not really, tbh. Soundwave and Cosmos only fought in atmosphere, for example.

Cosmos traveling 5 light hours and Omega's feat are notable.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I meant more or less when Cosmos is chasing astrotrain, does anyone scale from there, in terms of reactions?

I'll add the feats later

 

[ByAsura]

I don't know, unless Arcee is dodging Astrotrain's blasts.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Galvatron was able to react and shoot down cosmos tho, so there's that.

 

[ByAsura]

It could scale to reactions then, but relative motion would have made it way easier.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Found a new speed feat for Optimus that might put him and maybe others as Subsonic+. One of the velocitronians, who are known for being fast and a lot faster than regular cybertronians, said that Optimus was really fast for a truck. The only character I can think of that scales to this is Megatron.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So I finally have the notable feats calced. But the feats that couldn't be calced were:

- Sixshot's boast

- Optimus and Megatron clash

- Optimus uses a superweapon to drop a cybertronian city block on a vulnerable Megatron

- Devastator makes a big splash

- Skywarp and blitzwing collapse a bunker

With that being said. This is all the notable feats calced and their rating.

- Unicron absorbs a supermassive black hole and multiple stars and threatens the stability of the galaxy (The former is 4-B via this calc and the latter should be around 4-A, looking at the References for Common Feats page)

- Mega-Toraxxis Refinery Explosion (High 6-A)

- Sixshot razes a world (High 6-A)

- Reapers also raze a world (High 6-A)

- Overlord can shave an inch off a planet (High 6-A)

- Darkwind implies Thunderwing could destroy everything on nebulos, and that Thunderwing also devastated Cybertron single-handedly (Likely High 6-A)

- Megatron has civilization destroying capacities (At most High 6-B)

- Galvatron survives a weapon designed to absolutely pulverise comets (6-C)

- Megatron can destroy a city while his rail gun is uncharged (At least 7-B, likely higher)

- Megatron, and some other characters survive a kinetic harpoon, a weapon stronger than a tactical nuclear weapon (At least 7-B, likely higher)

- Arcee violently yeets Galvatron to the ground (It's likely higher because of the big explosion, but for now, 8-A)

- Megatron survives re-entry while incredibly damaged (At least 8-A)

- Devastator knocks over a skyscraper (High 8-C)

- Megatron flexes on starscream and destroys a skyscraper (High 8-C)

My suggestion is 7-B to High 6-A. The tier 8 feats are pretty casual and don't seem to display the higher end of their power

 

[00potato]

I would say 7-B to High 6-A.
Most of the tier 6 feats are a bit vauge and possibly hyperbolic besides the explosion but it seems like enough for a “likely”

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I agree with 7-B to High 6-A. Just waiting for input from others

 

[LordTracer]

I would also agree with ‘At least 7-B, likely High 6-A.’

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Optimus Prime: Varies from At least City level (Survived a Kinetic Harpoon, which could harm Megatron, who could destroy a City) to Multi-Continent level (Survived the Toraxxis Mega Refinery Explosion), At most Universe level with Matrix of Leadership (Defeated the D-void), ignores conventional durability with the Matrix of Leadership | Varies from At least City level+ (Stronger than before) to At least Multi-Continent level (Could one-shot Bludgeon, who could contend with Optimus before. Stomped Nova Prime, who overpowered him prior) | Varies from At least City level to Multi-Continent level (Stronger than before)

Megatron: Varies from At least City level (Comparable to Optimus Prime) to Multi-Continent level (Superior to the likes of the reapers, who can raze entire worlds, or Overlord, who can shave an inch of a planet) | Varies from At least City level+ (Could destroy a City while his rail gun was uncharged) to At least Multi-Continent level (Far stronger than before)

 

[LordTracer]

I’m pretty sure you only use ‘to’ if a character has a Varies tier.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

ByAsura wanted a varies tier

 

[ByAsura]

I did mean to, like LordTracer said. Sorry if I wasn't specific.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So, are we all in agreement here or should we wait for others to input?

 

[ByAsura]

Sure.

What's the justification for the Matrix?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It was able to defeat the D-Void, which in itself is 3-A by virtue of being a universe. The matrix got shattered tho, that's why it's "At most Universe level"