Transformers General Discussion

[Drite77]

There is a lot of universe level stuff for Cybertron/Galaxy Force that should scale to Optimus/Megatron and the other Key Leaders, but it is very much an avatar of Vector Prime in that show. There is not really a way to scale anybody to Vector's best showings/lore based on the show and its tie in information.

I don't agree in general with scaling the Unicron Singularity to anyone but Primus who closed it. The Singularity is extremely convoluted and difficult to scale linearly because it manifests both inside universes/timelines while also acting outside of them. Thus from the perspective in one universe, you witness it slowly suck in planets and destroy the universe, even though it is also destroying time outside of this and affecting the multiverse as a whole.

Despite Vector saying in the show the Singularity will destroy all universes, Galvatron only ever says specifically he is going to use the Omega Lock to survive the destruction of their universe and create a new one. That is pretty solid grounds for not scaling him or any of the other main cast to the black hole. Primus was also running on fumes up until the very end of the show and it isn't "True Primus" regardless who has never appeared since the 80s and exactly one panel of a Regeneration One flashback, so no justification for Primus-scaling either.

I am honestly quite happy that Cybertron is as strong as it is though, it's a fantastic show with a cosmic scope I miss. It's the strongest cartoon continuity by a fair margin and it deserves that spot.

I unfrotunately never watched Cybertron since it was never dubbed in my country, the only thing I've ever seen from it are the transformations which, probably repetitive in the show, I found quite cool, favorite being Mudflap! Anyhow, Low 2-C seems neat I guess, though I'll say that, while Megatron holding an entire dimension together is a solid feat for Lifting Strength, I think more stuff that supports the tier 2 ratings is welcomable (Specially if Galvatron says he needs the Omega lock to survive the destruction, though if there is enough tier 2 feats, it is probably just PIS)

 

[Drite77]

Unrelated note, 7-B base for the Dreamwave Armada boys

 

[RippleFrog]

I unfrotunately never watched Cybertron since it was never dubbed in my country, the only thing I've ever seen from it are the transformations which, probably repetitive in the show, I found quite cool, favorite being Mudflap! Anyhow, Low 2-C seems neat I guess, though I'll say that, while Megatron holding an entire dimension together is a solid feat for Lifting Strength, I think more stuff that supports the tier 2 ratings is welcomable (Specially if Galvatron says he needs the Omega lock to survive the destruction, though if there is enough tier 2 feats, it is probably just PIS)

There's quite a lot of lore for Cybertron especially as we have some raws from the DVD booklets to work from now, but off the top of my head the main reason there's any 2c scaling across the board is that this universe-survivingg Galvatron has his shields broken by Optimus (who does not have an Omega Lock) and this Galvatron is ultimately beaten by Optimus, Scourge, Override, and Evac. There's a lot of shounen powerup syndrome going on in the show, so even after this whole thing is resolved, in later episodes Galvatron comes back for one more round with Optimus on the moon where he is able to overpower him until Optimus gets Rhisling.

It's a kind of convoluted scaling chain and I'd have to take some time to sort the information but that's the short version, it supports itself when you dig far enough into it but sounds kind of outlandish out of context. It's Transformers though so hey.

Regardless of all that though, definitely do not believe the show or Balancing Act tie-in supports the show characters being at 1A.

 

[SpookyGunShip]

There's also a feat from one dvd booklet where megatron absorbs a flow of energy that spreads across the universe.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I have a Megatron (Galaxy force) profile completed. It just needs to be reviewed.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:SpookyGunShip/Galaxy_force_megatron

The others already state it, but everything about this profile is pretty much wrong.

1. Why is Galvatron weaker than Megatron?

2. Vector Prime's avatars heavily vary from universe to universe. There's nothing to show he'd scale to his highest level of feats in this show, especially when the Cybertron comic implies he's pretty weakened after scrapping with Ramjet. Same goes for Primus.

3. Massively FTL+ has no calc behind it, and Unmeasurable speed isn't justification for Immeasurable speed.

4. Holding the fire dimension open wouldn't be a universal LS feat, that's just portal creation from the looks of it.

5. Several justifications in the P&A lacks scans or any type of references

6. The Black hole in no way scales to Outerverse level. The singularity has nothing to shown it'll affect the Tree of Life. Even during just Cybertron, it wasn't shown to be spreading throughout the entire universe just yet, and it's main power is that it can simply replicate itself from reality to reality. At best, this is Universe level+ with Low Multiverse level range.

7. That's not really justification for Nigh Omniscience.

It's better for you to list down and collect other proper feats from Cybertron than haphazardly doing it like this.

 

[SpookyGunShip]

1. It doesn’t say Galvatron is weaker than Megatron.
2. Un and Im are both prefixes for “not”.
3. He actually can open portals, except it looks completely different than the dimension feat.
4. I'm scaling the black hole to hyper, not outer.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It doesn’t say Galvatron is weaker than Megatron.

Why is Galvatron 5-B and 1-A at the same time?

Un and Im are both prefixes for “not”.

Things like that can often be used hyperbole for characters just being insanely fast. Nothing in it shows it lines up with the wiki's standards of what Immeasurable speed is.

He actually can open portals, except it looks completely different than the dimension feat.

It's just him tearing a hole open through the dimension. That's just a hax feat.

I'm scaling the black hole to hyper, not outer.

The blog says otherwise, that and there isn't anything either that shows the singularity would affect the Multiverse' higher dimensions, only space and time.

 

[SpookyGunShip]

Why is Galvatron 5-B and 1-A at the same time?

I made the force field and his armor separate.

The blog says otherwise, that and there isn't anything either that shows the singularity would affect the Multiverse' higher dimensions, only space and time.

I made an explanation for it.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I made the force field and his armor separate.

Why though. Why would his forcefield be so insanely lower.

I made an explanation for it.

Your scan is heavily out of context. It would only affect the entire multiverse if Ramjet's plan succeeded. It did not. So it wouldn't scale to 1-B.

 

[ByAsura]

Also, how weakened was Primus when he fired at Galvatron?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Also, how weakened was Primus when he fired at Galvatron?

We don't how much, but he was already weakened before due to not having the omega lock, apparently being weakened further before that, and Galvatron was amped by both the omega lock and Unicron's power.

 

[SpookyGunShip]

Things like that can often be used hyperbole for characters just being insanely fast. Nothing in it shows it lines up with the wiki's standards of what Immeasurable speed is.

They can but it makes sense for Super starscream and Primus.

It's just him tearing a hole open through the dimension. That's just a hax feat.

Jetfire states the dimension was collapsing so it's a universal feat.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

They can but it makes sense for Super starscream and Primus.

It really doesn't. The databook doesn't mention anything else beyond unmeasurable speed. Again, Primus' avatars vary. And Primus is not at full strength here. Even if Primus is at full strength, nothing would show that this specific Primus scales to his higher end feats.

And where did you get the databook translated?

Jetfire states the dimension was collapsing so it's a universal feat.

Is there even anything that shows said dimension is Universal in size? From what I gather, it's just a pocket dimension, and we don't give ratings for something so vague.

 

[SpookyGunShip]

It really doesn't. The databook doesn't mention anything else beyond unmeasurable speed.

What else does it need to mention?

And where did you get the databook translated?

Google translate

Is there even anything that shows said dimension is Universal in size?

Megatron was using the full power of the Unicron armor which is universal, indicating it’s that size.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

What else does it need to mention?

Speed

Speed is simply how fast a character can move in a given amount of time. There are five types of speed used for VS purposes: Attack Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed, Travel Speed, and Flight Speed. The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed. The speed at which an attack moves. For...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Google translate

Yeah, iirc we don't allow Google translation. You're gonna have to get a proper translation or request it from here.

Megatron was using the full power of the Unicron armor which is universal, indicating it’s that size.

And what states the Unicron armor is Universal? Like how does it's durability correlate to the size of the dimension.

 

[SpookyGunShip]

Yeah, iirc we don't allow Google translation. You're gonna have to get a proper translation or request it from here.

It is allowed. https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/

And what states the Unicron armor is Universal? Like how does it's durability correlate to the size of the dimension.

It's in a character memo from galaxy force booklet 10.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It's in a character memo from galaxy force booklet 10.

Could you show it?

 

[SpookyGunShip]

Could you show it?

 

[RippleFrog]

Why though. Why would his forcefield be so insanely lower.


Your scan is heavily out of context. It would only affect the entire multiverse if Ramjet's plan succeeded. It did not. So it wouldn't scale to 1-B.

it was supposed to destroy the entire multiverse even in the show according to Vector, but this is a moot point because of the way the black hole works in general, nobody but Primus can actually scale to the entire thing. The Primus that Galvatron “beat” didn’t even have all his power at the time (and is just an avatar body so???)

 

[SpookyGunShip]

it was supposed to destroy the entire multiverse even in the show according to Vector, but this is a moot point because of the way the black hole works in general, nobody but Primus can actually scale to the entire thing. The Primus that Galvatron “beat” didn’t even have all his power at the time (and is just an avatar body so???)

Galvatron with the omega lock stated himself to be stronger than Unicron and Primus. I’m not sure which Unicron though.

 

[RippleFrog]

Galvatron with the omega lock stated himself to be stronger than Unicron and Primus. I’m not sure which Unicron though.

this was not actually true though as he was not able to stop the black hole while Primus was. Galvatron’s plan was just to use the lock to survive it

 

[SpookyGunShip]

this was not actually true though as he was not able to stop the black hole while Primus was. Galvatron’s plan was just to use the lock to survive it

He was actually making it grow instead of stopping it.

 

[RippleFrog]

He was actually making it grow instead of stopping it.

that was a last resort after Optimus, Scourge, Evac , and Override beat him. He just tossed the Lock straight into the black hole. The fact that with the lock he was overpowered by Optimus and the other planet leaders should also signify he was not as powerful as Primus is

 

[SpookyGunShip]

that was a last resort after Optimus, Scourge, Evac , and Override beat him. He just tossed the Lock straight into the black hole. The fact that with the lock he was overpowered by Optimus and the other planet leaders should also signify he was not as powerful as Primus is

This happens in an episode before that.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It is allowed

Only for smaller stuff. Stuff like databook require proper translations from members.

"spreading across the universe" seems to be a mistranslation. From what I'm getting, it's likely referring to the Unicron Singularity, which Megatron doesn't scale to. Again, you really need to get better translations.

Galvatron with the omega lock stated himself to be stronger than Unicron and Primus. I’m not sure which Unicron though.

Unicron also heavily varies so this isn't a good point either.

it was supposed to destroy the entire multiverse even in the show according to Vector, but this is a moot point because of the way the black hole works in general, nobody but Primus can actually scale to the entire thing. The Primus that Galvatron “beat” didn’t even have all his power at the time (and is just an avatar body so???)

I'm aware, I'm just saying the way it functions, it's not outright 1-B overall and heavily relies on chain reactions + overtime