Transformers General Discussion

[EightAte8]

They're not, really. The comics use an expanded version of them without the Tech Specs, while the cartoon used abridged and sometimes even completely different versions of them (Shockwave was a primary example of this, as his cartoon profile described him as having no emotions or ambitions outside of his loyalty to Megatron, while the original comic and toy bios described him as running only on cold logic and seeing himself as a potentially better leader for the Decepticons than Megatron).

 

[ByAsura]

They'd still be part of those canons. They're more appendices than their own separate canon.

 

[Shadyboi0]

It's most likely an outlier but Grimlock is 850 tons in aoe

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It is. That would put grimlock at 7-C

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So I made a sandbox for Bumblebee movie profiles. Go check it out. I'm reluctant to use the same formula for the bayformers, as the BBB characters use pods and they mysteriously vanish, and I'm not sure if their physicals scale to the pods hitting the ground. So for now, they're 9-A because shatter destroys a car. Unless we can get calcs for this and this.

 

[EightAte8]

Couldn't it be assumed that the pods are vaporized or something? Plus, given how we've only seen Autobots using pods, and they're usually unable to fly, maybe they're just for helping them get off of the planet, as opposed to taking the brunt of re-entry?

 

[ByAsura]

There's actually a pretty good feat in the film where a few Seekers collapse a Cybertronian building with 30-ish missiles.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Couldn't it be assumed that the pods are vaporized or something? Plus, given how we've only seen Autobots using pods, and they're usually unable to fly, maybe they're just for helping them get off of the planet, as opposed to taking the brunt of re-entry?

Sure. Not gonna use this for shatter and dropkick for obvious reasons.

Optimus: 150.85420650095602 Tons of TNT = 8-A

Bumblebee: 12.14627151051625 Tons of TNT = 8-B

Blitzwing: 364.653441682600373 = 8-A

Bumblebee should be 8-A by virtue of being able to harm blitzwing and other seekers who should be comparable to him. Optimus scales above blitzwing and bumblebee. Still a bit reluctant on this. I'll wait for the opinion of others.

 

[EightAte8]

Well, Shatter and Dropkick should scale to Bumblebee anyway, right?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Yep. Optimus is able to one-shot some of the seekers so that should place him at roughly 2 to 3 kilotons, Low 7-C. However, I still want to wait for the other calcs and what others think before I apply the changes.

 

[ByAsura]

Bumblebee seems consistently lower, though. At one point, he was even hurt by a car crash.

The impact itself is also tiny. Probably Wall level.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Oof. Then it seems I'm sticking to 9-A. Although I don't remember the car crash scene.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So drite says he couldn't calc Bumblebee destroying a wall and the seekers destroy a tower because of some problems and stuff. But he calced Dropkick and shatter landing on earth and blitzwing attacking the military, Dropkick got 8-C results, Shatter got 9-A results and Blitzwing got 9-B results. Not bad

 

[Primestar3]

Thoughts?

He cracked the Hoover Dam with missiles. The top of Hoover Dam is 45 feet thick, he cracked the middle of it, which should be thicker. He was randomly spamming missiles, so missiles probably didn't hit the same spot twice.

How good is this?

Remember that Ironhide and Ratchet survived the same missiles in the 2007 movie without too much trouble. In the same comic, Cliffjumper gets a direct hit from the missile to the back. He is heavily injured, but is implied to have survived in a later story. Smokescreen also survived two missiles exploding in his face. He shows up later in DOTM comic.

The missiles must have cracked the dam all the way through as quite a bit of water is gushing.

https://www.concreteconstruction.net/business/world-of-concrete/hoover-dam-hoover-dam-bypass_o

Says that they used 1000 psi concrete in the arches. I think that is supposed to be the main wall since it seems the dam is an arched dam, correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Primestar3]

Titan Magazines:

Brawl (Devastator) topples skyscrapers on a dead alien world.

The skyscraper fell on top of him, yet he shrugs it off.

Pounds the ground really hard.

A living planet exists:
Image

(Also, Jazz can send an SOS call to the other Autobots scattered across the galaxy, and they come)

The planet has a form of nervous system according to Ratchet.

--------------------------
Devastator has a BFR missile that can scatter himself and some others in an area throughout he universe (The first scan also shows Devastator being unaffected by firepower from Ironhide, Jazz and Ratchet):

Image 1

Image 2

 

[Primestar3]

Titan Magazines cont.

Ironhide's punch's shockwave can send a nearby armored vehicle flying.

He no sells sabot rounds. s from small tanks and machine guns (means be has good heat resistance, better than 6000 degrees as stated in the first movie). Can alao ragdoll that small tank

Scorponok controls him here by the way. He attached himself to Ironhide's neck. The connection could be severed by armor piercing rounds (first scan panel 3):
Image 1

Image 2
----------------------------------
He can take a punch from a zombified Devastator.

 

[Primestar3]

Reign of Starscream

Starscream is inside the Nemesis ship, which crashes. The redulting crash destroys Trypticon City.

Image 1

Image 2

Image 3

Though you can see some damage on the city before hand (second image panel 1), it looks like it is in ruins after the ship crash with building toppled etc. There was a battle before hand, but it appeared to be mostly confined to one are).

In image 3, panel 2, it says the burning sky (from the explosion) engulfes the city. The destruction is so great the city is no more according to the narration. The fact that the crash explosion engulfes the city and the narration stated that the city is no more right after the explosion suggests it was the crash that destroyed the City (and big smokes weren't coming out of the city before the crash).

Starscream survives (he is teleported to Mars) .

 

[Primestar3]

Rising Storm

Shockwave impacting Earth caused the Tunguska event.

Image 1
Image 2

He is knocked into statis lock after this. However, his body appears fine. Remember that Optimus in DOTM and its comic adaptation (written by the writer who wrote Rising Storm) could easily rip through Shockwave's body (upgraded from his Rising Storm body). In the movie, he ripped through his guts with striking strength. He also ripped his eye out through lifting strength. He two shotted him in the comic adaptation.

Though the narration states Shockwave was inside a ship, the crater didn't have any remains of the ship and only had Shockwave, so maybe he crashed in his reentry form, and not in inside a ship?

The Tunguska detail came from Shockwave's production bio according to the writer:

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Tunguska_event#Trivia

 

[Primestar3]

Ark crash seems to be visible from space.

Rising Storm issue 2:
Though perhaps this one was just for effect, and it wasn't literally visible from space, but you be the judge.
Panel 4

Dark of the Moon adaptation:
The explosion is big enough that the Moon's curve is visible. It was also big enough that a photo could be taken by NASA. Since this explosion is narrative based (NASA took a picture of it), I think that it can't be dismissed as unliteral visuala or whatever.
Panel 4

Ark's state after the impact in the adaptation:
Image 1
Image 2, panel 3

Its appearance in the movie. However, in the movie, it didn't seem to cause a huge explosion when it impacted. Its impact was still detected by NASA in the movie as well. IDK what that would entail.

In Foundation, it was Starscream that heavily damaged the same Ark. (It was written by the same writer who wrote the DOTM comic adaptation. The adaptation itself also references the orevioıs comics, so the writer took them into account).

Autobots and Decepticons thought it was completely destroyed, but in truth, it was merely teleported away by the Space Bridge pillar inside the ship activated by the shock.

The novel itself had NASA calculate that if Ark hit Earth instead of the moon, it would have created a crater the size of multiple cities, and/or could possibly have even split or sink a continent. Since it hit the moon, the impact was probably weaker due to the Moon's gravity but IDK by how much. Starscream in that novel damaged the same Ark's stabilizer, which made it lose control and get lost in space. Though that novel was written by Peter David, while the comics were written by John Barber. Also, the novel is somewhat inconsistent, as it also described Shockwave as being able to incinerate an Abrams tank, which would probably be weaker than Starscream damaging Ark.

In the beggining of the movie itself, a Decepticon craft missile slightly damaged Ark's wing (not talking about the multiple missile thing that destroyed the Ark. The one I am talking about is a few seconds earlier. Optimus himself took the same missile in the back without much damage at DOTM movie's final battle.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The only feat that seems to be Low 7-C is the Tunguska event. And that is 7-B, city level. That seems like an outlier feat, especially since shockwave was knocked into stasis.

A lot of the other feats don't seem to be beyond tier 8

 

[Primestar3]

The only feat that seems to be Low 7-C is the Tunguska event. And that is 7-B, city level. That seems like an outlier feat, especially since shockwave was knocked into stasis.

A lot of the other feats don't seem to be beyond tier 8

The Ark moon impact.

Trypticon explosion engulfing the city, and leaving it in ruins.

Tunguska feat itself. The difference here being that Shockwave is knocked into statis lock. He was completely in one piece though, so Optimus striking would scale.

Those are above 8-A and low 7-C. And re-entry feats shouldn't be TFs limit as even Protoform fodder metal no sells those impacts.

 

[Primestar3]

Blitzwing survives ICBM with nuclear warhead exploding near him (or on top of him).

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4

What level could this be?

This is from the Bumblebee Movie Prequel. However, it fits and is meant to fit the Bayverse timeline. Written when Bumblebee was a Bayverse prequel, so it doesn't condradict the Bay continuity.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm pretty sure starscream escaped the explosion in the Nick of time alongside dreadwind, considering after dreadwind escapes is literally beside him.

There's no proof that the ark crashing is 7-B, especially everyone inside basically died, with exception of sentinel.

The Tunguska feats is iffy. Shockwave is knocked out from it and the idw movie comics have debatable canoncity to the movies as of now.

We consider Bumblebee to be a seperate continuity to the bayverse. The latest news from Hasbro States so if I remember right.

 

[Drite77]

The comics are separated from the movies in cannon

 

[Primestar3]

I'm pretty sure starscream escaped the explosion in the Nick of time alongside dreadwind, considering after dreadwind escapes is literally beside him.

There's no proof that the ark crashing is 7-B, especially everyone inside basically died, with exception of sentinel.

The Tunguska feats is iffy. Shockwave is knocked out from it and the idw movie comics have debatable canoncity to the movies as of now.

We consider Bumblebee to be a seperate continuity to the bayverse. The latest news from Hasbro States so if I remember right.

Starscream didn't escape, he had no way of escaping. He was inside the ship, and the ship exploded before he could even finish his sentence. Right after the ship crashed and the explosion happened that destroyed the city, the ship was teleported to Mars. Dreadwing, who has teleportation abilities, himself teleported away before the explosion. So, yeah Starscream survived it.

The Ark's explosion is visible from space, at least as far as the comics are concerned. In the movie itself, NASA notice the impact (IDK if this means anything, but might be notable).

Bumblebee movie is non-canon, but the prequel comic is completely different. Let me explain:
Since Bumblebee movie was once supposed to be Bayverse canon, a prequel was made using the script that had Bumblebee movie connected to Bayverse. The comic is completely incompatible with the movie, but it is compatible with the Bayverse timeline. It even has references, plot points and cameos from the old Bayverse comics, seemingly suggesting that the comics that doesn't condradict TLK are in-continuity with the BB movie prequel comic. So, yeah, this is inarguably a Bayverse comic.

Regardless of canonicity, extended universe profile or headers can be opened.

 

[Drite77]

You mean composite profiles? Those type of profiles were banned

 

[Primestar3]

The comics are separated from the movies in cannon

Jim Sorenson (came up with the IDW Tyran stream) quote:
https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/116666-rook-andromeda-on-facebook/page-263#entry3186251

"I have never written universal streams as
having a 1:1 relationship with universes. Look at The Transformers: The Movie... it's in-continuity with both the Marvel series (or at least a prominent possible future of it) and the cartoon, and seems to be in the past of the Beast Wars as well. From the very beginning of the brand, it's been possible for a work to belong to more than one universe, ergo it follows that the system to track such things would also be able to function thusly. So the live action movies are canon for the comics but the comics aren't (necessarily) canon for the movies. The US Marvel comic is (mostly) canon for the UK Marvel comic, but the UK Marvel comic is (mostly) not canon for the US Marvel comics. Streams merge and then split."

This means that the stream itself might be a part of the movie Canon. Also, AVP doesn't seem to touch too much on primary continuities, which makes sense since it is so obscure. That's probably why they never tried to change too much of the primary canons.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think they're referring to what they did with the star Wars profiles

 

[Primestar3]

I think they're referring to what they did with the star Wars profiles

Yeah I am.

 

[Drite77]

So 2 separate keys? One for the movies and one for the comics?

 

[Primestar3]

So 2 separate keys? One for the movies and one for the comics?

Yeah.

 

[Primestar3]

I think they're referring to what they did with the star Wars profiles

Also, with the Ark crashing, I was referring to the fact that Ark survived the impact somewhat intact. The same ship was heavily damaged by Starscream in a prequel written by the same writer.

 

[Drite77]

I guess that one would need autorization from staff to do that

 

[Primestar3]

I think they're referring to what they did with the star Wars profiles

The reason why Starscream appears beaide Dreadwing is because the destroyed ship, which Starscream was inside in at the time, was teleported to Mars from Cybertron. That is how Starscream arrived at Mars in the first place. Dreadwing himself teleportef to the same location as the Nemesis, that is how Starscream was behind him.

I didn't explain it well enough initially, sorry. Also, I skipped some scans as I am not sure what the scan limit for a single issue is in this site.

 

[Primestar3]

The first Reign of Starscream skipped scan was Dreadwing gloating to himself on Mars that he won (Starscream's hand is visible in the Nemesis wreckage that was teleported to Mars).

The second scan was Starscream coming out of the wreckage suddenly and impaling Dreadwing in the spark.

 

[LordTracer]

Well, with the Star Wars analogy, there’s a revision planned to split a lot of the characters into entirely different profiles for the EU Canon.

 

[Primestar3]

Well, with the Star Wars analogy, there’s a revision planned to split a lot of the characters into entirely different profiles for the EU Canon.

I guess that's fair, though some of the comics may be canon to the movies (non-condradictory ones).

 

[Primestar3]

Brawn punches Rumble all the way to a mountain in the back.

This comic tries to bridge Bumblebee movie to the Bayverse. It condradicts Bayverse, but it doesn't condradict Bumblebee-verse. Still, it is probably going to be ignored in the sequel.

Rumble size

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Still tho, this isn't gonna upgrade anything in the bayverse nor the bumblebee movie as previously stated, that comic is still non-canon. So at best it'll get an extra key or seperate profiles

 

[Primestar3]

Still tho, this isn't gonna upgrade anything in the bayverse nor the bumblebee movie as previously stated, that comic is still non-canon. So at best it'll get an extra key or seperate profiles

Which ones are you talking about? The one above, or all of them?