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Transdualism in WoD
- Thread starter Udlmaster
- Start date
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Only true Platonic concepts that have been proven to transcend and be qualitatively superior to all concepts of time and space. You should preferably show him this page: Conceptual Manipulation
Udlmaster
Any/All- 7,510
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- Thread starter
- #125
I know, me and Ultima we're having a very in-depth debate about Platonic concepts that will continue tomorrow.
And I can actually prove Platonic concepts include those of time and space, as Platonic concepts contain all variations of the thing they are representing, this would include all variations of Time and space.
And to be clear, I'm not talking about Time and space's concepts via an extension of all things true anymore, I have a flat out undeniable statement stating that Mages can impact the concepts of Time and space.
And I can actually prove Platonic concepts include those of time and space, as Platonic concepts contain all variations of the thing they are representing, this would include all variations of Time and space.
And to be clear, I'm not talking about Time and space's concepts via an extension of all things true anymore, I have a flat out undeniable statement stating that Mages can impact the concepts of Time and space.
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The problem is that within fiction Platonic concepts are not always portrayed correctly, and can be much weaker than a 1-A level. We cannot automatically assign such a scale without further evidence regarding their transcendence over all dimensions of time and space. Just calling a character Platonic is nowhere near enough.
Udlmaster
Any/All- 7,510
- 3,090
- Thread starter
- #127
I'm not using Platonic's power, I'm using their properties, this is a properly that False and True share, that they contain all variations of the concept they embody,
And like I said, I have a statement saying Mages can impact the concept such of time and space.
And I can prove they're the same, I did in the last thread, Assult agreed with me and so did many others.
And like I said, I have a statement saying Mages can impact the concept such of time and space.
And I can prove they're the same, I did in the last thread, Assult agreed with me and so did many others.
Udlmaster
Any/All- 7,510
- 3,090
- Thread starter
- #129
I know. I already told him:
"Yeah, nigh-all on the website believe Platonic concepts are 1-A, but they have to prove they are 1-A and or are the real life versions, I've got pages and pages going on about Plato, the theory of Forms and his literal words on how he described them."
"Yeah, nigh-all on the website believe Platonic concepts are 1-A, but they have to prove they are 1-A and or are the real life versions, I've got pages and pages going on about Plato, the theory of Forms and his literal words on how he described them."
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That or Type 2.
1-A rating has been rejected and debunked time and again and I can't believe people still trust Udl's word at all.
I mean
While I agree
You're kinda attacking Udlmaster here
1-A rating has been rejected and debunked time and again and I can't believe people still trust Udl's word at all.
I mean
While I agree
You're kinda attacking Udlmaster here
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I don't have a card at play here, I know nothing about World of Darkness. However, I actually think transduality should be removed anyway. Platonic concepts are also meaningless and have been a meme for the longest time. One of our biggest problems to date is using Platonism to suggest something is 1-A. Heck, the tier 1-A itself is heavily misrepresented here nowadays.
Udlmaster
Any/All- 7,510
- 3,090
- Thread starter
- #146
Why remove Transdualism?
>Platonic concepts are also meaningless and have been a meme for the longest time. One of our biggest problems to date is using Platonism to suggest something is 1-A. Heck, the tier 1-A itself is heavily misrepresented here nowadays.
But this upgrade isn't based on Platonism, there's an argument made for it, which goes like this:
All things true exist as Platonic Truths in the Supernal realm, since Time and space exist and the Supernal gives Platonic meaning to them.
And so, since they have The Platonic concepts of Time and space, this would prove they're type 1 too, so: 1-A WoD"
Besides that argument which wasn't presented here, Platonism has scarcely been brought up.
>Platonic concepts are also meaningless and have been a meme for the longest time. One of our biggest problems to date is using Platonism to suggest something is 1-A. Heck, the tier 1-A itself is heavily misrepresented here nowadays.
But this upgrade isn't based on Platonism, there's an argument made for it, which goes like this:
All things true exist as Platonic Truths in the Supernal realm, since Time and space exist and the Supernal gives Platonic meaning to them.
And so, since they have The Platonic concepts of Time and space, this would prove they're type 1 too, so: 1-A WoD"
Besides that argument which wasn't presented here, Platonism has scarcely been brought up.
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Okey dokey, you can ignore my bit about Platonism.
Anyway, so why remove Transduality?
Well after giving it some thought, Transduality is redundant.
When I originally made the page for Ven way back when, I had the idea to eventually make a Duality Manipulation page to compliment it and better illustrate his point with the page, i.e., the control over dualities themselves not just any specific duality, but since then that's never happen and like with some other powers, Transduality was eventually given types. However, dualities are just their own standalone thing that can be resisted.
Aeyu (one of the contributors to the new transduality types) described for example, being beyond life and death (an example of duality) as a form of transduality but that's just:
1. Hyperbole
2. Type 5 immortality
3. Resistance to Life and Death Manipulation
4. A combination of 2 and 3.
Almost all dualities work like this. It could just be resistance or fall in the category of a power already listed. When you break up a page into types you remove it's all encompassing nature, which looks good on paper for vs debating purposes, but with the exception of Regenerationn, immortality, and the like, it is not necessary. Like, there should only be one type of abstract existence, but we apparently have three. It's excessively defined to the point where you have to assume technicalities and never suspend your disbelief just to get it through.
Anyway, so why remove Transduality?
Well after giving it some thought, Transduality is redundant.
When I originally made the page for Ven way back when, I had the idea to eventually make a Duality Manipulation page to compliment it and better illustrate his point with the page, i.e., the control over dualities themselves not just any specific duality, but since then that's never happen and like with some other powers, Transduality was eventually given types. However, dualities are just their own standalone thing that can be resisted.
Aeyu (one of the contributors to the new transduality types) described for example, being beyond life and death (an example of duality) as a form of transduality but that's just:
1. Hyperbole
2. Type 5 immortality
3. Resistance to Life and Death Manipulation
4. A combination of 2 and 3.
Almost all dualities work like this. It could just be resistance or fall in the category of a power already listed. When you break up a page into types you remove it's all encompassing nature, which looks good on paper for vs debating purposes, but with the exception of Regenerationn, immortality, and the like, it is not necessary. Like, there should only be one type of abstract existence, but we apparently have three. It's excessively defined to the point where you have to assume technicalities and never suspend your disbelief just to get it through.
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Whoa whoa, I didn't even know about this thread, my "support" came with a huge caveat.Udlmaster said:
I'm nowhere near a reliable expert on 1-A. I've seen half a dozen feats, called them all 1-A, only to have actual 1-A experts come in and say that I'm wrong and it's actually not enough evidence.
I couldn't find any problems, but since I'm not an expert please don't use me as support.
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About time. Sheesh.
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That makes no sense. Transduality (which only should have one type btw) is not "only for 1-As". I feel like we're so "proud" of this tier that we assign powers or types of powers to it and only it.
No verse should ever become 1-A based off transdualism, plantonism, or any combination thereof. We're talking about attack potency here, and neither of the above grant anything AP-related.
No verse should ever become 1-A based off transdualism, plantonism, or any combination thereof. We're talking about attack potency here, and neither of the above grant anything AP-related.
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1-A is more like a state of being. Transduality revisions did happen you know. Apparently it "grants" that state of being.
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@Sera It is explicitly stated to be reserved for 1-A on the official page tho. Perhaps you should be careful about approving things, no offense
