Touma vs Naofumi

[Everything12]

Imagine Breaker nulls anything that is non-natural by the pure world of Toaru's standard, it doesn't matter how natural stats are in Naofumi world or how natural Naofumi tries to make it, if it doesn't belong in the Pure World it is Erased.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yes, it is. Adding versions for different points in time is voluntary detail. A profile only needs to reflect the latest, strongest, most encompassing version.

There's a reason we even have keys, to add different versions for different points in time, because profiles that only show a single point such as the strongest version of a character while ignoring everything else that happens on the series are absolutely incomplete. You can't get the ending of something without having the rest of the series, it makes no sense for the profile to be considered complete when ignores the content of most of the series.

 

[YungManzi]

Talk about a derail....

 

[Ionliosite]

Talk about a derail....

It isn't derailment, if a profile isn't even complete, it shouldn't be used on matches.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Imagine Breaker nulls anything that is non-natural by the pure world of Toaru's standard, it doesn't matter how natural stats are in Naofumi world or how natural Naofumi tries to make it, if it doesn't belong in the Pure World it is Erased.

It doesn't erase by pure world standards. By pure world standards anything magical, like ley-lines, soul, lifeforce etc. would also not exist.

It returns things to how they should be in the current world, which is probably the reason it has difficulty reversing phases that change what the current world is like.

 

[DontTalkDT]

It isn't derailment, if a profile isn't even complete, it shouldn't be used on matches.

Eh, dude, the past of Naofumi matters not to this key.

And no, keys over time is absolutely not required. There is no need to make a key for every level a character ever was at. If you want to claim so make a CRT about it. It will get denied, i guarantee it.

 

[Ionliosite]

Eh, dude, the past of Naofumi matters not to this key.

It matters when part of the argument being used is that Naofumi becomes physically stronger without his shield due to being bound by a curse on EoS, when none of that is on the profile, so claiming he's anything but 10-C without his shiels is unsopported by his profile itself.

 

[XDragnoir]

There's a reason we even have keys, to add different versions for different points in time, because profiles that only show a single point such as the strongest version of a character while ignoring everything else that happens on the series are absolutely incomplete. You can't get the ending of something without having the rest of the series, it makes no sense for the profile to be considered complete when ignores the content of most of the series.

Yeah, Toaru also has problems with this, see Fiamma's profile for example, and Aleister's who has an unnecessary amount of keys.

 

[DontTalkDT]

It matters when part of the argument being used is that Naofumi becomes physically stronger without his shield due to being bound by a curse on EoS, when none of that is on the profile, so claiming he's anything but 10-C without his shiels is unsopported by his profile itself.

None of his past keys would even reflect that, since the only time in the entire story where this is shown would be during a short term power up / power negation from external sources. That wouldn't even be added as key.

Also, the only reason this isn't mentioned is because I never thought this would become relevant, as Naofumi can't even willingly stop it. It's like saying Iron Ma needs a key and clarification for him without any tech, otherwise his profile is incomplete and unusable.

 

[XDragnoir]

Bruce Banner has key of his own, even if the Hulk would be the only one with a key by your logic.

 

[Ionliosite]

I mean, Iron Man should indeed have a key without armor, but that's besides the point.

If the profile says he's 10-C, he's 10-C, it doesn't matter if he becomes physically stronger without it, because the profile doesn't mention such thing in the slightless, and thus saying his AP is any stat but 10-C is invalid given it isn't even on the profile.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Bruce Banner has key of his own, even if the Hulk would be the only one with a key by your logic.

Other keys are allowed not required. Bruce Banner wouldn't need a key. He is allowed to have a key, though.

If the profile says he's 10-C, he's 10-C, it doesn't matter if he becomes physically stronger without it, because the profile doesn't mention such thing in the slightless, and thus saying his AP is any stat but 10-C is invalid given it isn't even on the profile.

I mean, I can mention it somewhere on the profile if you really want. In fact, I will do this right now. It is just an unlikely stat that he would never naturally reach, as if buffed by the opponent essentially. Saints in To Aru don't have a stat for when their physical strength is negated either, but I doubt people would claim the remain the same strength as listed on their profiles if it is negated...

 

[YungManzi]

Funny thing is, a situation literally happens pre-Q'ten Lo arc where Naofumi and Raphtalia get their hero powers negated and end up becoming stronger because they were afflicted with a curse which was caused by Naofumi's shield powers.

 

[YungManzi]

Are we gonna do this for every character now?

Make keys for DB characters without Ki energy.

Naruto characters without chakra.

Hunter X Hunter characters without nen.

Superheroes without their Superpowers.

Naofumi's shield is just as much a power source as any of those.

 

[Ionliosite]

>Hunter X Hunter characters without nen

Gon and Killua do have keys of this

 

[YungManzi]

I'm talking about as a general rule.

The vast majority don't have those.

 

[Ionliosite]

But you do know why they have them, don't you?

 

[XDragnoir]

Are we gonna do this for every character now?

Make keys for DB characters without Ki energy.

Naruto characters without chakra.

Hunter X Hunter characters without nen.

Superheroes without their Superpowers.

Naofumi's shield is just as much a power source as any of those.

You aren't getting the point, it's like saying Tsuna and guardians shouldn't have Varia keys since DWF isn't used by everyone in that arc, or don't making a key for East Blue Straw Hats because haki wasn't here. And the one who said Naofumi was 7A without the shield curse was you.

 

[YungManzi]

No. That's differen't.

Difference being, Naofumi hasn't spent any significat amount of time, in story, without having his shield. The one arc he did, he had access to other legendary weapons.

That's different from characters having keys for an in story arc where they couldn't even use the power.

 

[Ionliosite]

Ironically, Naofumi without shield IS ALREADY ON THE PROFILE, rated as 10-C.

 

[YungManzi]

Don't really mean to bump this, but I forgot to mention this last time.

Yes, Naofumi is very likely 7-A or at the very least High 7-C without a sheild, based on his level alone. Takt as a level 350 had his attack stat so heavily nerfed by Naofumi's shield (When he stole it) that his attacks did 0 damage to people who weren't even level 100.

 

[Ionliosite]

Naofumi is very likely 7-A or at the very least High 7-C without a sheild

The profile says 10-C

 

[YungManzi]

Takt could one-shot near Level 100s, but with Naofumi's shield equipped couldn't even make them flinch.

 

[Ionliosite]

Make the CRT then, otherwise, he's 10-C.

 

[Dragopentling]

So what's been established here so far in terms who has the edge or not?

 

[Ionliosite]

Touma beats Light Novel Naofumi and Web Novel Naofumi's profile is bad. That's pretty much all that has been established here.

 

[Dragopentling]

Btw, I have Mami vs LN Naofumi up if anyone wants to join in THAT OP