(2v2) Naofumi & Raphtalia VS Daewi Han & Mira Yoo

[DavidTPPM]

Legitimately doesn’t matter. Heroes do both and can be negged.

It does matter because it makes the ability useless…?
Like my point is that negating weapon amps won't do anything because they don't have amps from the weapons.

You asked how it activates,

No no I'm not asking how it activates but how it works. Tho how it activates is also good to know

If you’re asking how exactly it works…

If you’re looking for what exactly “enhancement” means, it’s literally just anything that increases your stats.

As I said, “In-verse, everyone has “stats” (Number which represents your statistics) literally a game UI.”

Could be a direct magic stat boost, indirect magic one, spiritual/ancestral boosts (SS), spiritual skills, empowerment, power from a weapon, directly manipulating your statistics with stat manipulation, and even you eating food which increased your growth rate. All of it are enhancements that just gets negged, while they get stronger, and now you’re weak enough to one shot.

Okay, the GoH duos AD doesn't fall under any of those. Their AD mainly comes in 2 ways:
1. Skill improvement. All attacks inherently waste energy and GoH characters rapidly improve in skill by maximizing their efficiency, achieving maximum results with minimal power.
2. Just straight up getting physically stronger. This is not really verbally explained but they just start punching harder and moving faster. It's basically just their muscles getting stronger like a regular persons.

So none of it comes from some equipment or supernatural energy like magic, chakra, mana, ki, or anything like that. The only thing it could possibly affect is borrowed power but like I said, Mira here hides the fact she's a power borrower until the last crucial point while Daewi straight up can't use his BP.

 

[YungManzi]

It does matter because it makes the ability useless…?
Like my point is that negating weapon amps won't do anything because they don't have amps from the weapons.

I just said they negate both, not just weapons, that’s why it doesn’t matter.

No no I'm not asking how it activates but how it works. Tho how it activates is also good to know

Okay, the GoH duos AD doesn't fall under any of those. Their AD mainly comes in 2 ways:
1. Skill improvement. All attacks inherently waste energy and GoH characters rapidly improve in skill by maximizing their efficiency, achieving maximum results with minimal power.

Skill in SH is also an enhancement. Aka weapon proficiency level.

Also, I think verse equalization covers this. Just assume they have a status; and in-verse, any status change is considered a stat or growth adjustment.

Cause like we’re gonna say people in the verse with statistics manipulation via manipulating status’s can’t use it on anyone outside of their verse because they don’t have a status? I mean, why do we let Monika from DDLC delete people who don’t have character files then?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Skill in SH is also an enhancement. Aka weapon proficiency level.

Yeah that's straight up impossible to equalize. Skill isn't some measurable metric and if the verse treats it like that, that's their unique approach.

Also, I think verse equalization covers this. Just assume they have a status; and in-verse, any status change is considered a stat or growth adjustment.

It doesn't. Verse equalization only applies if the 2 verses have a similar-enough mechanisms.

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Like of course Mira and Daewi don't have resistance to getting their skill reduced, that's because GoH doesn't treat skill as a measurable statistic.

Cause like we’re gonna say people in the verse with statistics manipulation via manipulating status’s can’t use it on anyone outside of their verse because they don’t have a status?

That depends on the specific case.
Power is a quantifiable metric. It doesn't matter if a verse treats it as a level like a video game or not, lowering strength does the same thing regardless so it's easy to equalize.

Intelligence isn't a quantifiable metric. So if a character can manipulate some intelligence statistic it's going to be a LOT harder to equalize against an opponent who's intelligence isn't measured in stat points like that.

I mean, why do we let Monika from DDLC delete people who don’t have character files then?

That's more so reality equalization. Character files are super easy to equalize as standard fundamental information.


It all depends on the individual case. How the abilities work, how the verses compare, etc.

 

[Phoenks]

Yeah I feel like I align more with David here. Just because Shield Hero treats skills as a statistic value doesn't mean they get to apply that to characters that don't. Especially considering skill is like, a purely mental thing. Unless there stat thing is able to explicitly affect people's memories and minds, I think that's quite the extrapolation.

 

[YungManzi]

It all depends on the individual case. How the abilities work, how the verses compare, etc.

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

A status is something everyone has, it’s not special and it doesn’t grant powers or resistance, it literally just indicates your values (hp, strength, durability, speed; as numbers)

If we say status affecting moves just don’t work outside of people who have status’s in-verse, then half of SH’s arsenal is useless crossverse.

Including things like information analysis, statistics manipulation, powernull, and durability negation (defensive rating attacks work based on stat values)

Crossverse literally cannot work without equalizing this.

 

[YungManzi]

Yeah I feel like I align more with David here. Just because Shield Hero treats skills as a statistic value doesn't mean they get to apply that to characters that don't. Especially considering skill is like, a purely mental thing. Unless there stat thing is able to explicitly affect people's memories and minds, I think that's quite the extrapolation.

Hmm… sure. I’m not gonna argue this point too hard because the weapon mastery thing is kind of poorly explained, and not everyone has a mastery level anyway, at least not visually.

But in general, the more a hero uses a weapon the more their weapon proficiency goes up and the more skilled they are with the weapon.


Negating that weapon’s proficiency level literally makes a hero much less skilled, and by skill, yes I mean actual weapon skills. Not powers and abilities.

 

[DavidTPPM]

A status is something everyone has, it’s not special and it doesn’t grant powers or resistance, it literally just indicates your values (hp, strength, durability, speed; as numbers)

You missed this part…

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Mira and Daewi don't use any supernatural energy for their attacks.

Like you said, this is what they target:

Could be a direct magic stat boost, indirect magic one, spiritual/ancestral boosts (SS), spiritual skills, empowerment, power from a weapon, directly manipulating your statistics with stat manipulation, and even you eating food which increased your growth rate. All of it are enhancements that just gets negged,

None of those are in any way tied to the GoH duos AD.

If we say status affecting moves just don’t work outside of people who have status’s in-verse, then half of SH’s arsenal is useless crossverse.

Again, not what I said. I said it's case-specific. Just that THIS specific case is impossible to equalize

Crossverse literally cannot work without equalizing this.

Again it can but it's case specific. Like you can't equalize negating someone's skill because the other verse considers skill as a quantifiable point system while the other considers it to be something completely different. It's not that equalization doesn't work in general on these things but that this specific case makes it inapplicable.

Similarly with the other stat nerfs. If you nerf stats tied to some magical or spiritual boosts and weapons, it's simply not going to nerfing stats that are not tied to anything like that.

 

[YungManzi]

Again it can but it's case specific. Like you can't equalize negating someone's skill because the other verse considers skill as a quantifiable point system while the other considers it to be something completely different. It's not that equalization doesn't work in general on these things but that this specific case makes it inapplicable.

I’m not even arguing the skill thing, I dropped it.

I’m talking about negating the amps.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I’m not even arguing the skill thing, I dropped it.

I’m talking about negating the amps.

Yeah which I addressed as well.

You missed this part…

Mira and Daewi don't use any supernatural energy for their attacks.

Like you said, this is what they target:

None of those are in any way tied to the GoH duos AD.

The only thing you can really argue it does affect is Miras Lu Bu but she keeps that hidden so they wouldn't even know about it until it's too late

 

[YungManzi]

Yeah which I addressed as well.

The only thing you can really argue it does affect is Miras Lu Bu but she keeps that hidden so they wouldn't even know about it until it's too late

Could be a direct magic stat boost, indirect magic one, spiritual/ancestral boosts (SS), spiritual skills, empowerment, power from a weapon, directly manipulating your statistics with stat manipulation, and even you eating food which increased your growth rate. All of it are enhancements that just gets negged,

If your power is increasing, then your attack stat is increasing. Which they can null. That was my argument above.

Also lol at eating food being supernatural.

 

[DavidTPPM]

If your power is increasing, then your attack stat is increasing. Which they can null. That was my argument above.

Except what they can null is if your attack power is increasing via magic or spiritual shenanigans.
Can they reduce the muscle mass of their opponents?

Like based on your description it doesn't really sound like they have this advanced bio manip based powernull that removes your muscles and makes you 10-C as a result, rather they just stop you from using magical enhancements.

Also lol at eating food being supernatural.

If the food is some magical bs that makes you magically grow stronger then yeah…

 

[YungManzi]

I swear, if only we had a statistics manipulation page, both stat amps and accle devel would be considered manipulating statistics.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I swear, if only we had a statistics manipulation page, both stat amps and accle devel would be considered manipulating statistics.

Statistics Reduction

The functional inverse of Statistics Amplification, Statistics Reduction reduces the overall parameters of one's opponent, such as physical or magical strength, defense, or speed, to hamper their fighting capabilities. The effects of these abilities are usually temporary and may be reapplied or...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Statistics Amplification

Statistics Amplification is when a character raises their parameters in the middle of a fight, and this is not related to their base form or some sort of “hidden power” that has been hidden or held back. These boosts are usually temporary and are specific to one or a number of statistics. This...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[YungManzi]

Except what they can null is if your attack power is increasing via magic or spiritual shenanigans.
Can they reduce the muscle mass of their opponents?

Yes.

Like based on your description it doesn't really sound like they have this advanced bio manip based powernull that removes your muscles and makes you 10-C as a result, rather they just stop you from using magical enhancements.

It would ordinarily, in-verse they just go against people with counters to it, or people who aren’t heroes so they can’t just freely manipulate their statistics so it’s useless. Or they can’t use it for whatever reason.

If the food is some magical bs that makes you magically grow stronger then yeah…

No, the nutritional value of food cooked by a good cook makes you grow stronger as a demi human because it makes you grow and advance physically faster than a normal human as part of your physiology… and that’s an enhancement that can be negated. (It’s not possible to completely negate their natural growth effects from leveling, but everything else is fair game.)

Statistics Reduction

The functional inverse of Statistics Amplification, Statistics Reduction reduces the overall parameters of one's opponent, such as physical or magical strength, defense, or speed, to hamper their fighting capabilities. The effects of these abilities are usually temporary and may be reapplied or...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Statistics Amplification

Statistics Amplification is when a character raises their parameters in the middle of a fight, and this is not related to their base form or some sort of “hidden power” that has been hidden or held back. These boosts are usually temporary and are specific to one or a number of statistics. This...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I mean like an umbrella page for all of these powers to fall under, they’re pretty much the same thing anyway in either direction.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yes.

It would ordinarily, in-verse they just go against people with counters to it, or people who aren’t heroes so they can’t just freely manipulate their statistics so it’s useless. Or they can’t use it for whatever reason.

Can you show me any evidence of that?
Because an unavoidable ability that instantly negs you to an immobile lard of meat is pretty ******* broken for something basically not explained in the P&A section at all

No, the nutritional value of food cooked by a good cook makes you grow stronger as a demi human because it makes you literally grow and advance physically faster than a human… and that’s an enhancement that can be negated. (It’s not possible to completely negate their natural growth effects from leveling, but everything else is fair game.

Yeah that's really not just regular food lmao

 

[YungManzi]

Can you show me any evidence of that?

The nutrition thing off the top of my head. That’s an enhancement. They can negate enhancements.

Because an unavoidable ability that instantly negs you to an immobile lard of meat is pretty ******* broken for something basically not explained in the P&A section at all

Yeah, I’m gonna do a whole overhaul of the verse next year. The pages are pretty bad rn and not all that accurate either. And I’m saying that as the person who made them lol.

Im also going to try and make sense of and officially scale the complex structure of systems that is the Shield Hero battle system.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The nutrition thing off the top of my head. That’s an enhancement. They can negate enhancements.

Yeah, I’m gonna do a whole overhaul of the verse next year. The pages are pretty bad rn and not all that accurate either. And I’m saying that as the person who made them lol.

Im also going to try and make sense of and officially scale the complex structure of systems that is the Shield Hero battle system.

Well good luck, that sounds like it'll be pretty time consuming to do.

Maybe by the time you're done I'll have finally revised Daewis profile

 

[Phoenks]

bump

 

[BoastJr]

Snip

Verse Revision when

Do they atleast get tier 2 stuff for fighting the Fake Ass Gods with their 0 Series Weapon

 

[Catbowtie]

Godly Duo FRA

 

[DavidTPPM]

bump

I think we've reached the conclusion that the swordhero people need a major revision first before they're really usable here

 

[BoastJr]

I think we've reached the conclusion that the swordhero people need a major revision first before they're really usable here

The Conclusion is that We Need to Wank Sakura Blossom Power Null before we have a chance to fight band for band on Daewi and Mira level

See you in 6 business years

 

[DavidTPPM]

See you in 6 business years

Business years is crazy

 

[YungManzi]

Verse Revision when

Do they atleast get tier 2 stuff for fighting the Fake Ass Gods with their 0 Series Weapon

I’m gonna need some help tbh. Just in terms of editing, and discussion (Mostly to talk about what we should do about in-verse concepts like status’s, defensive ratings, hero abilities, ect.)

Not caught up to that part yet in the LN. I’ve only read the parts I’ve done revisions for, so like up to volume 20. I

 

[BoastJr]

Snip

I will try to Help ! There is some interesting things I would like to add

I think Maybe Kyo should get Tier 2 Enviromental Destruction since we are given some information on what the Waves are !

Also in the Web Novel, the Series 0 Weapons can Hurt Medea iirc (it scratched her) and in the LN it

can eliminate any illegitimate power (Power Null ?) and is super effective against those with Type 1 Immortality

But yeah lets keep the talk to the discussion thread !