Touma vs Giorno (rematch)

[Cloozuma]

Giorno lost this match, but his dura got upgraded so can he win this time?
GER Gio vs Base Touma
Speed Equal

Right Hand: 7
Causality Manip: 1
Instant Death:

 

[Cloozuma]

Bump

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Link the profiles pls.

 

[Cloozuma]

Done

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well this is a doozy......the Imagine Breaker thing that Touma has seems to nullify all supernatural stuff......I dunno the range....but the ability seems to require speed to match speed of enemies attacks to nullify them continously......so if this was speed unequal Giorno could have had advantage with his infinite speed.....but it is speed equal here...so Touma may just null all supernatural phenomena around him....

Will re evaluate this later.......that is all I can think of now.

 

[Cloozuma]

Well this is a doozy......the Imagine Breaker thing that Touma has seems to nullify all supernatural stuff......I dunno the range....but the ability seems to require speed to match speed of enemies attacks to nullify them continously......so if this was speed unequal Giorno could have had advantage with his infinite speed.....but it is speed equal here...so Touma may just null all supernatural phenomena around him....

Will re evaluate this later.......that is all I can think of now.

IB's range is within his right hand, also this was Touma's win till Gio's dura was upgraded.

 

[Everything12]

Durability had absolutely zero effect on the match. Nothing has changed with Durability; Return to Zero will have no effect because of Imagine Breaker nullifying anything that affects Touma's entire body, Touma's precog that allowed him to react to an arrow that just instantly came from another dimension with no warning will allow him to sense and react to anything GER tries to throw at him, and Touma will instinctively reach for GER and erase it with a touch.

 

[manu_zarri]

Touma's precog that allowed him to react to an arrow that just instantly came from another dimension with no warning will allow him to sense and react to anything GER tries to throw at him, and Touma will instinctively reach for GER and erase it with a touch.

1) i don't see precog on the page
2) the diavolo precog did not affect ger and giorno in the anime/manga
3) where is Existence Errase in the profile?

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

1) i don't see precog on the page

It's that thing called "premonition perception". And towards supernatural things, it's not exactly precog, more like sixth sense.

 

[manu_zarri]

It's that thing called "premonition perception". And towards supernatural things, it's not exactly precog, more like sixth sense.

this?
Precognition: Literally referred in the original Japanese novels as Premonition Perception or Sense of Foreboding?

so it isn't precog, like the hax.

 

[Everything12]

Well anyway, whatever you call it will allow Touma to sense and react to anything GER tries to do to him, and the "erasure" is the fact that anything nullified by his H1C Power Null is erased.

 

[Cloozuma]

Well anyway, whatever you call it will allow Touma to sense and react to anything GER tries to do to him, and the "erasure" is the fact that anything nullified by his H1C Power Null is erased.

How the **** does Touma EE with IB? He negates stands, doesn't mean the stand user dies or so.

 

[Cloozuma]

If you're saying Giorno can be erased via just IB nulling GER, no. Giorno is a human.

 

[Cloozuma]

I'm really sorry for the backlash.

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

If you're saying Giorno can be erased via just IB nulling GER, no. Giorno is a human.

Not ouright erased, no. However, considering what happens when stands are damaged, I wouldn't want to be in Giorno's shoes when IB forcefully reshapes GER to its own definition of a normal soul.

 

[manu_zarri]

He negates stands, doesn't mean the stand user dies or so.

No, if stand dies user dies too

 

[manu_zarri]

btw, Touma can't see and intract with stands

because he dosen't Non-Physical Intraction
idk if soul manipulation would work, since he can only do it with absorption

 

[manu_zarri]

nvm, you need Non-Physical Intraction

 

[Everything12]

Touma's sixth sense allows him to react to similar spiritual invisible things to Stand even though he can't see them, and his Right Hand can nullify such things. However, without these two things he can't normally see and interact with them so he doesn't have Non-Physical Interaction.

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

btw, Touma can't see and intract with stands

because he dosen't Non-Physical Intraction
idk if soul manipulation would work, since he can only do it with absorption

If something is supernatural, it doesn't matter if it's physical or not, it's going to get nulled. We're talking about a guy who negates his own luck.

 

[The_Eldritch_Snowcone]

Anyway, Voting Touma for the reasons above.

 

[manu_zarri]

Touma's sixth sense allows him to react to similar spiritual invisible things to Stand even though he can't see them, and his Right Hand can nullify such things. However, without these two things he can't normally see and interact with them so he doesn't have Non-Physical Interaction.

Sixt Sense is Extransory Perception (or whatever is called)? if yes, he can see them. though for intract with stands, you need non-physical intraction, it's writed on the stand blog page. i don't know why he dosen't have it, but apparently it isn't listed

If something is supernatural, it doesn't matter if it's physical or not, it's going to get nulled. We're talking about a guy who negates his own luck.

you actually needs feat i guess, it's just like affecting a NEP or Abstract. but here it's incorporeality

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

you actually needs feat i guess, it's just like affecting a NEP or Abstract. but here it's incorporeality

The most obvious thing - yeeting Yakumi Hisako out of Rensa in NT7. More minor stuff: telepathic link in OT6, holistic effect in NT4, Ureapaddy's arrows from Road to Endymion, whatever Ayu was doing at the end of NT11, Niang-Niang's blades in NT13, and whatever Amazora was doing to hold gatling gun in one hand in Biohacker SS. Also, Coronzon started to avoid IB after her soul was kicked out of the body.
That's skipping over negating cutting force, sonic attacks, air vectored on him, Agitate Halation propagating thorugh AIM, etc.

 

[manu_zarri]

The most obvious thing - yeeting Yakumi Hisako out of Rensa in NT7. More minor stuff: telepathic link in OT6, holistic effect in NT4, Ureapaddy's arrows from Road to Endymion, whatever Ayu was doing at the end of NT11, Niang-Niang's blades in NT13, and whatever Amazora was doing to hold gatling gun in one hand in Biohacker SS. Also, Coronzon started to avoid IB after her soul was kicked out of the body.
That's skipping over negating cutting force, sonic attacks, air vectored on him, Agitate Halation propagating thorugh AIM, etc.

ok? make a CRT for Non-Physical Intraction, if it's what you meant

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

ok? make a CRT for Non-Physical Intraction, if it's what you meant

Um, you asked for feats for IB interacting with non-physical stuff, specifically incorporeality.
CRT for this would likely get shot down, as powernull kind of covers this aspect.

 

[manu_zarri]

Um, you asked for feats for IB interacting with non-physical stuff, specifically incorporeality.
CRT for this would likely get shot down, as powernull kind of covers this aspect.

i mean, unless if you are new, you should know that feats aren't wrtied a profile can't be used, for be used, before you need make a CRT.

 

[Everything12]

I already explained why he doesn't have Non-Physical Interaction, he can't actually touch non-physical things. He can only nullify them with his Right Hand, which isn't Non-Physical Interaction.

 

[manu_zarri]

I already explained why he doesn't have Non-Physical Interaction, he can't actually touch non-physical things. He can only nullify them with his Right Hand, which isn't Non-Physical Interaction.

sounds a bit weird. wait, but he need touch for the activitation?

 

[Everything12]

Anything supernatural (by ToAru's standard) is nulled (erased technically) when it makes contact with Imagine Breaker, however, besides this automatic ability he can't actually interact with or see non-physical things. Though stuff that affects the whole body while be nullified automatically as it's touching the Right Hand, so no Return to Zero.

 

[manu_zarri]

Anything supernatural (by ToAru's standard) is nulled (erased technically) when it makes contact with Imagine Breaker, however, besides this automatic ability he can't actually interact with or see non-physical things. Though stuff that affects the whole body while be nullified automatically as it's touching the Right Hand, so no Return to Zero.

but physical punch? (for ger)

 

[Everything12]

GER is supernatural, as soon as Touma touches it with his Right Hand its erased, his sixth sense that allowed him to dodge an arrow that teleported next to him and a rain of arrows from above will allow him to react to it punching.

 

[manu_zarri]

GER is supernatural, as soon as Touma touches it with his Right Hand its erased, his sixth sense that allowed him to dodge an arrow that teleported next to him and a rain of arrows from above will allow him to react to it punching.

arrows are physical tho

 

[Everything12]

They were magic arrows.

 

[manu_zarri]

They were magic arrows.

and that dosen't make it incorporeal, it's should be energy projection? idk what is supposed to be

 

[Everything12]

...I'm not using the arrows for feats of Imagine Breaker, I'm using them as feats for the sixth sense being able to allow Touma to react instantly to any supernatural threat.

 

[Cloozuma]

If something is supernatural, it doesn't matter if it's physical or not, it's going to get nulled. We're talking about a guy who negates his own luck.

I wanna ask, if IB can negate anything that is supernatural, why did it fail to negate Aiwass?

 

[Cloozuma]

Apparently one-shotting Giorno would be impossible given Gio's 9-C dura

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

I wanna ask, if IB can negate anything that is supernatural, why did it fail to negate Aiwass?

Simple, Aiwass is stronger

Apparently one-shotting Giorno would be impossible given Gio's 9-C dura

Touma is 9-C to though

 

[Cloozuma]

Touma is 9-C to though

Doesn't change the fact that a 9-C punch from Touma could kill Gio

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

I wanna ask, if IB can negate anything that is supernatural, why did it fail to negate Aiwass?

It... didn't? Otherwise Touma would be dead. IB has a problem with things that have a constant flow (laser-style) though - get to like Tier 6 with something like this and you will break at least some amount of force through - and Aiwass was sapping AIM from the entire city. Heck, on this scale, even things that don't constantly push will take some time to null (like Index's robes).

Also, Touma has a feat of OHKOing character with 9-C dura.