Toujou Karuna vs Yakagi Suimei

[DontTalkDT]

Toujou Karuna vs Yakagi Suimei

Scenario 1: Speed Equal

Scenario 2: Speed Unequal

Both are serious.

Are 100 cheat skills enough to defeat the modern magician?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Hey! A DT match! Gotta give a real vote.

Looking at their profiles, and Yakagi does seem to have the better abilities. By well...a good portion. However, what really matters for Toujou are six extremities: Extortion, Inversion, Absolute Attack, Absolute Defense, Secrecy, and Good Luck. The former three would be his bread and butter for this match, and the latter three expands his life. Transient Hope would however, presumably kill Toujou regardless. Along with numerous other things if he's well prepared. And both have precog, so that's a factor.

All in all, I believe that while Yakagi is more deadly, the fact that Extorsion and Inversion screw over a lot of his options make me believe that Toujou can edge it out.

Keep in mind this is all from character profile glancing. I know nothing about character, morals, limitations, etc.

Speed won't be a factor in either round, given their abilities and he closeness of it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yay a suimei match, against another wn character no less that i eventually was going to get into that series.

Extortion requires evidence it can steal conceptual abilities like suimei's.

Has inversion reflected conceptual attacks?

Absolute cutting is pretty useful.

What has absolute defense negated?

Is good luck combat applicable?

Suimei also has a move like secrecy so useless.

Black magic is useless due to suimei's natural defenses against curses and soul manipulation, and in addittion to that has an ability which gives him even more resistance from higher dimensional curses and soul manipulation no less.

For self healing, suimei has better regen.

Don't think coercion will work, suimei was hit by literal emotions which also damage souls and he resisted that.

Suimei has power nullification though one of them from what i remember only works on weak attacks, the second has to do with exposing his oppoents to an higher order ego, not sure what that means honestly.

 

[DontTalkDT]

In regards to extortion it never has demonstrated stealing conceptual abilities. That said it can steal abilities like the ability to use magic and the ability to manipulate magic power.

Inversion reverses properties not reflects attacks. In other words since it reverses the property of aim it should work as long as the attack has aim to it, given that it only affects that property not the attack in total. It should basically be like Accelerators Vector Shield in that regards.

Absolute Defense has actually not been demonstrated, but only explained. Karuna called it the greatest cheat of his 100 skills, though. I'm pretty sure that it would negate pretty much any skill in his own world. Conceptual skills are not included there currently, though.

In regards of healing I may note that this is only true for passive Regenerationn. As long as he has time to use active spells before dying Karuna should be able to heal more or less everything (by reversing time or healing magic on the level of resurrecting the dead)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So with inversion suimei's attacks will be reflected back at him, that would be an issue then. Though it's not like his own attacks will kill him, he has fought other magicians before and they all can kill conceptual existences like the apparitions so he should probably have resistance to conceptual manipulation on his profile. Though besides from the conceptual stuff he will still get hurt from the attack, but nothing his regen can't heal.

Has karuna had his mana forcibly sucked out of his body before, suimei could do that, but i doubt it will work.

Is inversion a passive ability? Cause if not astral shoot could work then since it attacks souls and to use it, it won't even look like he is using an attack since it's literally using his soul to hit his opponents soul, though that's not exactly a fatal move, it just knocks his opponents around, well knockout is a reasonable win condition so guess that could work.

 

[DontTalkDT]

In regards to the mana sucking: Karuna ones healed a curse of weakness that worked by making magic power escape the body. Aside from that he has a high mana recovery (999 per second from 9999 mana at level 1) and has ÒÇêMagical Power ManipulationÒâ╗ExtremityÒÇë, which gives him the ability to manipulate magical power, specifically also were his on power flows.

So I don't think sucking him dry is easy. To that comes that I believe that only his magic skills require mana. Fighting skills consume fighting spirit instead and the rest probably neither (at least it's not mentioned to consume anything IIRC).


Inversion is not a passive ability. That said I'm not sure if Astral shot would go undetected. Karuma can see such things as magical power, likely due to detection that also otherwise finds anything hidden through hiding skills. In the end wouldn't he see the soul due to it carrying magic power? (He could also see a ghost... then again everyone could see the ghost)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean he could see that a magic is being activated but he wouldn't know what it is that suimei is doing. If normal ppl could also see that ghost, not sure about him seeing suimei using his soul to attack him.

Also how likely is he to spam inversion? Will he do it at just from seeing his opponent magic power? And does he keep spamming the ability?

Cause if he doesn't, suimei could win due to transient hope which he uses concentrated malice to attack his opponents, damaging their astral bodies. The attack is literally malice so unless karuna can see literal malice, in other words emotions, he wouldn't even be able to see the attack.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well, the point with the magic power was that if Suimei moves his soul to strike Karuna he would inevitably also move the magic power in the soul together with it. Meaning Karuna would see something like a bunch of magic power moving towards him, warning him that some power is attacking, even if he can not see the soul directly.

I might throw in that Astral Shoot is also a double edged sword. If Karuna responses with Absolute Cutting the fight likely ends in his favor.


In regards to spamming... hard to say. Until this point Karuna never fought even remotely serious due to being way too op. He seems to at least prefer using inversion and teleportation over using other defensive abilities against opponents strong enough to not just beat them with fighting spirit. And due to appraisal underestimation shouldn't be an issue, given that it should give him info about all stats and skills. Leadership and future prediction skills also help in making better decisions...

In regards to malice: Perception Extremity automatically warns the user about dangers, traps, presences, malice, and killing intent directed at the user. So he should be able to dodge it.

One could also debate wether an attack with malice would come out similar to an attack with fighting spirit.