Touhou reaction time and Youkai regen

[DontTalk]

Once upon a time I mentioned that it may not be unreasonable to list touhou characters as having lightspeed reaction time.

The reasoning is that, while they only dodge with the quantified relativistic speed, bascially everyone and their mother has already dodged light based attacks. (one may further argue that I am sceptical towards most people being blitzed by aya) Opinions?

Another topic is if we should give (the more youkai like) Youkai Regenerationn. Touhou wiki mentions "a youkai can even recover from being cut into pieces" under their physiology. Anyone knows where that comes from? (Edit: Already found it, its from Perfect Memento in Strict Sens' article about Youkai)

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Regenerationn I'm skeptical about since it seems to be more after they get killed and respawn thing. Or maybe something about youkai essence and whatnots. But I don't see it being much use in combat

That said I can see Touhou characters having light speed reactions. Many of them have lasers anyway so it's not too surprising. Kinda scales well with the potential moon feat from Imperishable Night too.

 

[DontTalk]

well, it says: "Youkai have stronger bodies than humans, so even if they're split into five parts, they heal right away."

So it really seems to be part of their physical regenration and not respawning or just surviving...

 

[Promestein]

Both things seem accurate, so.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It was from Akyyu's things the regen thing. I think it would be on most Youkais, but not ones like Alice or Pathy, who possess more human-like body.

And I agree with lightspeed thing. Heck, even Ran is probably around Lightspeed.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

That's fast Regenerationn then... In that I got no complaints here.

Also, if I can ask, this was discussed before but I want to bring light to it again

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?bt=221698

This seem legit to you folks?

 

[Drac32Drac]

Be careful about using PMiSS as a source. I happen to agree with the conclusion in this case, but that source is intentionally misleading at times. You have to realize that youkai aren't really primarily physical creatures in the first place. They are mostly spiritual beings that take a physical form to interact with the world around them. Reimu herself basically says that to actually kill a youkai, basically people have to stop believing in them such as when a mundane phenomenon explains away a supernatural one. It is difficult to wrap your head around unless you understand the concepts of eastern spiritualism.

Also, Ran is actually one of the more powerful youkai.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Wouldn't that mean that they are basically nigh-unkillable via physical means?

Yeah but she scales to Yukari who scales to a lot of peeps I guess.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Wouldn't that mean that they are basically nigh-unkillable via physical means?

All the (admittedly sparse) manga material on general youkai physiology seems to point that direction. But that doesn't mean that they don't age, lose stamina, etc. as they clearly do.

However, to bypass that... all that needs to happen is the attacks need sufficient 'meaning' whatever that means. It's all fuzzy.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well it does looks like Youkais are kind of conceptuals. Just randomly attacking may not be enough, things like throwing beans and paper with symbols on it may work better than a shotgun here.

 

[Drac32Drac]

That's exactly the kind of thing that everything points to. The symbolism is more powerful than actual raw power in most cases.

 

[DontTalk]

Here btw. you see a fairy refelecting light. By angsizing you get that the shots in the upper left picture where less then 1.3191m (estimating the size of a lying fairy to be about half a meter) away from her when she noticed (by angsizing the bottom right one the total distance is 2.27m, in case someone doubts she noticed just then)

So yeah, even fodder fairys have reaction speeds like that making lightspeed for the rest just even more realistic... (not that anyone doubted anyway...)

 

[Drac32Drac]

I've actually used that feat elsewhere in a debate about reaction speeds. It's a compelling argument, honestly. Either virtually everyone has lightspeed reactions, or those light attacks aren't actually lightspeed.

 

[Drac32Drac]

That's fast Regenerationn then... In that I got no complaints here.
Also, if I can ask, this was discussed before but I want to bring light to it again

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?bt=221698

This seem legit to you folks?

It seems to make some sense, but since the whole premise revolves arround the assumption of some characters being 'dishonest' maybe it should be debated in a separate thread.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I can try to do a calc there but probably gonna do it in the weekend. Since doing it probably won't help much

Alright, gonna make it when I get the time. Been busy and would love to take part in that discussion

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, Sunny Milk managed to deflect Yukari's beam attack via her ability to control light without real effort. So fairies could do it. And if we compare Fairy Wars with mainstream games - fairies are slowpokes.

 

[Drac32Drac]

We can't forget that Sunny, Luna and Star, while considerable weaker than the main cast, are also considerable stronger than an average fairy.

 

[Yamatohime]

We can't forget that Sunny, Luna and Star, while considerable weaker than the main cast, are also considerable stronger than an average fairy.

But still Reimu can beat them in matter of seconds without putting any effort. And they are weaker compared to Cirno though.

 

[Drac32Drac]

But still Reimu can beat them in matter of seconds without putting any effort. And they are weaker compared to Cirno though.

Of course. Reimu is a powerhouse. Cirno is the STRONGEST fairy. Those three are merely strong fairies. The "average" fairy is said to be able to be bested by average village humans.

 

[DontTalk]

OK, so if nobody minds I would begin and add lightspeed reactions to all profiles?

And Low-Mid to Mid Regenerationn for Yukari and Yuuka (the only youkai except magicians that we have listed, I believe)?

 

[Drac32Drac]

I'm all for the speeds. As for Regenerationn, I believe it should apply to Yukari, Yuuka, Utsuho, Suika, Flandre, and Remilia at the least as youkai. The vampires already have their own regen listed, so they are good already.

 

[DontTalk]

I wasn't sure if hell ravens and oni formally count to youkais in touhou... well, if it is the case I would guess adding it to suika and utsuho is fine as well... (well onis certainly are mentioned to be youkai looking it up)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well didn't Suika already have some higher regen due to surviving being just vapor?

 

[Drac32Drac]

I don't see why a hell raven wouldn't be considered a youkai. She is reffered to as a youkai in Symposium of Post Mysticism.

edit... The mist regen is separate from what we are talking about. Both should apply.

 

[DontTalk]

On another note, Patchouli has Massively Hypersonic+ speed on her profile. Is she really that much slower?

 

[Yamatohime]

Tenshi probably has some kind of Regenerationn too. Since she managed to traid blows with Suika and tired her out at the end of their battle wo looking injured.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Where does this even comes from? I mean, I guess Hisoutensoku has lighting attacks but Patchy being so much slower than other lower peeps seems unlikely.

 

[Drac32Drac]

I find it hard to believe that she is slower than Sunny if that's what you mean. But I can't really back that up right now.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Tenshi probably has some kind of Regenerationn too. Since she managed to traid blows with Suika and tired her out at the end of their battle wo looking injured.

Youkai Regenerationn doesn't prevent loss of stamina. I mentioned this earlier.

 

[Yamatohime]

Suika has enormous stamina but battle was not going for days. So Suika should have used her full power and still Tenshi was OK.

 

[DontTalk]

Suika has enormous stamina but battle was not going for days. So Suika should have used her full power and still Tenshi was OK.

I don't remember the battle you are refering to, but I doubt that Suika would have used her density manipulation on her directly, given that I don't see how tenshi would survive that. Possibly a physical fight possibly with some of her other techniques, but quite possibly nothing that tenshis durability couldn't take.

Well, without knowing the extent of the injuries actually inflicted on her we couldn't say which degree of regen it is in the first place.

 

[DontTalk]

Ok, so if anyone has objections to upgrading patchoulis speed due to her probably not being 20 times slower or even 2 times slower then everyone else, he shall speak now...

 

[Yamatohime]

Patchy probably can not maintain such speed for long.

 

[DontTalk]

Patchy probably can not maintain such speed for long.

Well, that's what the stamina stat is for. You may specifiy it more if you wish.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Patchy probably can not maintain such speed for long.

Mind powers, Yamatohime! Mind powers!

 

[Yamatohime]

Lol.

About Tenshi... She is likely extremely durable... So Suika probably couldn't make a dent in her with her punches.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Wasn't this...With...y'know, the spellcard rule?

 

[Drac32Drac]

Wasn't this...With...y'know, the spellcard rule?

Of course it was. It should be mentioned, though, that out of all of the story modes, when Yukari beat Tenshi, she didn't ask for a rematch...

 

[Yamatohime]

Tensi vs Suika and Tenshi vs Yukari were outside of Gensoukyou. And Tenshi initial attack were outside SCR.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Tenshi vs Yukari was at the Hakurei Shrine itself.