Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah, but those are living beings, not just blood.

Yeah but that begs the question of what's considered alive. Because blood not being enough means biological material alone doesn't qualify.
We also know chakra can be shrunk and that's composed of energy produced by the cells of your body so that's also not enough to be considered alive.

Oh yeah. For some reason it didn't show up when I strg+f yesterday. Well, the ffirepower can still kill him regardless. Qiqi defeated her nemesis with a canon that oneshot them through a portal.

Yeah but Isshiki could just shrink the beam. Or maybe even absorb it.

Can he shrink light?

He can shrink anything that's not living which includes pure chakra and fire so light shouldn't be an issue

That aside, being aware of it in time can be a problem. The beam can be like 20 times faster than them (assuming speed equal).

Isshiki has millenia of combat experience and the Byakugan which allowed Hinata to percieve something that perception blitzed EMS Sasuke, who was at least 5x faster than her and had precognition + gives up to 20+km omnidirectional sight.
Plus he has shunshin to boost his speed by blitz levels, so as long as the beam comes from space he should be fine. In the end all he needs is to see the attack to shrink it.

Against the rods Qiqi can simply create a device that acts on its own.
What the time stop is concerned... maybe. Although Qiqi could develope a backup device that open a portal to get her out from the outside.

I mean, then Isshiki just breaks it and shrinks her again. He generally spams his shrinking ability on every random thing that he can

Sure. But not with any of what I mentioned IMO. What exists in her verse, or is only a slightly different application from something that does, should be manageable for an extraordinary genius that sinks decades into prep.

Uhhhh sure ig?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Bai Xiaochun (Eternal World)

Upon the destruction of the Heavenspan Realm, his home, as an aftermath of his battle with Daoist Heavenspan, Bai Xiaochun wakes up in the Eternal Lands, disheartened and lost. After months of drowning himself in drink, he is found by his father-in-law. Spending some time wallowing int their...

vsbattles.fandom.com

this guy should be second place for 4-A because of 10 layers + CM1

probably a smurf

 

[Robo432343]

probably a smurf

i think archean bai is a smurf but not base bai

 

[DavidTPPM]

Bai Xiaochun (Eternal World)

Upon the destruction of the Heavenspan Realm, his home, as an aftermath of his battle with Daoist Heavenspan, Bai Xiaochun wakes up in the Eternal Lands, disheartened and lost. After months of drowning himself in drink, he is found by his father-in-law. Spending some time wallowing int their...

vsbattles.fandom.com

this guy should be second place for 4-A because of 10 layers + CM1

I have been taught to run as soon as I read the word "cultivation" in a characters profile, and this guy has 3859285883 pages worth of bumass information about him so yeah, I ain't reading all that

 

[Livinmeme]

I have been taught to run as soon as I read the word "cultivation" in a characters profile, and this guy has 3859285883 pages worth of bumass information about him so yeah, I ain't reading all that

You haven't seen a TTRPG or capshit profiles, that scaling is basically (A beats B, who beats C who...Repeat this until we reach XYZ, XYZ fragmented this wall, which makes him 9-B+) and repeat it a billon times for ten trillon characters.

 

[DavidTPPM]

You haven't seen a TTRPG or capshit profiles, that scaling is basically (A beats B, who beats C who...Repeat this until we reach XYZ, XYZ fragmented this wall, which makes him 9-B+) and repeat it a billon times for ten trillon characters.

AP is one thing but these series tend to have bullshit layering based on levels and stuff. Where you could have like, a character who technically should have soul hax (which he might as well never used) that are level 80 so they have 80 layers and you're cooked because no non-level/class based verse is getting 80 layers of anything.

Like bro wtf do you mean you're 4-A but have TEN LAYERS OF CM1???? That's like competing against elementary schoolers on a math test while having a PHD

 

[Livinmeme]

non-level/class based verse is getting 80 layers of anything.

Blazblue with beyond infinite layers

Like bro wtf do you mean you're 4-A but have TEN LAYERS OF CM1???? That's like competing against elementary schoolers on a math test while having a PHD

(Almost) everyone in WOD have conceptual plot based, and basically all haxes on the wiki at an stupidly high level (like High 1-A), you just need to search for more power creep
PD: Also it is more like 20 layers of CM1, and 200 layers of passive death manip.

 

[DavidTPPM]

"oh wow this fight sounds cool"
Infinite layers for a one shot hax:

 

[Livinmeme]

"oh wow this fight sounds cool"
Infinite layers for a one shot hax:

It is infinite layers of passive CM1, checkmate

 

[CodeCCLL]

Infinite layers for a one shot hax:

Attack reflection victims

 

[Planck69]

AP is one thing but these series tend to have bullshit layering based on levels and stuff. Where you could have like, a character who technically should have soul hax (which he might as well never used) that are level 80 so they have 80 layers and you're cooked because no non-level/class based verse is getting 80 layers of anything.

Like bro wtf do you mean you're 4-A but have TEN LAYERS OF CM1???? That's like competing against elementary schoolers on a math test while having a PHD

20 actually. He gets CM 1 in the Deva realm and each realm has 10 layers of hax and resistances.

Edit: 30, my bad. This is Celestial Bai not demigod Bai.

He does have 70 layers of passive mind/soul crush and power nullification though.

 

[DavidTPPM]

He does have 70 layers of passive mind/soul crush and power nullification though.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah but that begs the question of what's considered alive. Because blood not being enough means biological material alone doesn't qualify.
We also know chakra can be shrunk and that's composed of energy produced by the cells of your body so that's also not enough to be considered alive.

Chakra and blood wouldn't be considered alive by any definition of the word. Those are just substances. Well, I suppose the cells in the blood would be alive...
Anyway, we are talking about moving and breathing human-like creatures with a working biology and organs and everything. No reason to assume they would count as less alive than humans or animals.

I mean, then Isshiki just breaks it and shrinks her again. He generally spams his shrinking ability on every random thing that he can

And she can just have a second one. Or one placed on mars. Or one placed 50 years in the past.

Or have a hologram hide it. One of the kind that can fool superhuman senses. Not sure he could find a machine disguised like that without knowing where to look.

Yeah but Isshiki could just shrink the beam. Or maybe even absorb it.

He can shrink anything that's not living which includes pure chakra and fire so light shouldn't be an issue

Isshiki has millenia of combat experience and the Byakugan which allowed Hinata to percieve something that perception blitzed EMS Sasuke, who was at least 5x faster than her and had precognition + gives up to 20+km omnidirectional sight.
Plus he has shunshin to boost his speed by blitz levels, so as long as the beam comes from space he should be fine. In the end all he needs is to see the attack to shrink it.

While Isshiki could defend against any of the things Qiqi does in isolation, he pretty evidently has an action economy problem here.

If Qiqi only attacked with the laser, sure, he could spot it and react in time.

However, he has to do that, BFR present and future Qiqi, shrink the robot army, fight the biological robot army, destroy the pseudo-time stop device and whatever else Qiqi whips up. His action economy just doesn't work out. He's overloaded.
Whatever he deals with first, the rest will hit him.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

1. Kagami

2. Characters from Ergenverse

3. Wei Shi Lindon

For 5-C.

Lindon mutual kill both him and Wang Lin -destroying Wang Lin info type 2 and concept, but then he will regenned himself.

Kagami have weakness that she can't passively defend an attack that she can't imagine, and I'm sure she cannot imagined Willverse Cultivator bullshit. Even if she have resistance to Concept Manip it wasn't layered.

Lindon have this.

[7 Layers of Authority + 16 Layers of Soul/Mind Manipulation/Power Nullification & Resistance]

 

[Planck69]

For 5-C.

Lindon mutual kill both him and Wang Lin -destroying Wang Lin info type 2 and concept, but then he will regenned himself.

Kagami have weakness that she can't passively defend an attack that she can't imagine, and I'm sure she cannot imagined Willverse Cultivator bullshit. Even if she have resistance to Concept Manip it wasn't layered.

Lindon have this.

[7 Layers of Authority + 16 Layers of Soul/Mind Manipulation/Power Nullification & Resistance]

Wang Lin has 50 layers of passive mind/soul manipulation and power nullification though.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Wang Lin has 50 layers of passive mind/soul manipulation and power nullification though.

Not enough to null Lindon passive CM type 1 imo.

 

[Planck69]

Not enough to null Lindon passive CM type 1 imo.

....What? Specific powers don't aren't immune to general power nullification, that's ridiculous.

You can't even say it doesn't exist in Ergenverse either for that to be the case, though Wang Lin doesn't have access to that until the next key.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

....What? Specific powers don't aren't immune to nullification, that's ridiculous.

Fellow Daoist, you can't null conceptual attacks if it hasn't been shown to null conceptual things.

 

[Planck69]

Fellow Daoist, you can't null conceptual attacks if it hasn't been shown to null conceptual things.

The nullification works by mechanism of suppressing his soul and energy utterly. And what even are you talking about? I don't recall ever making it that a certain power just ignores power nullification, that too when it exists within the other verse as well.

Unless the fundamental mechanism of the power itself is uninteractible or something like that, like having a soul or innate energy of that nature.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

The nullification works by mechanism of suppressing his soul and energy utterly. And what even are you talking about? I don't recall ever making it that a certain power just ignores power nullification, that too when it exists within the other verse as well.

It is not his soul and energy, it came from his authority and icon which is type 1 concept. Restraining his soul and energy wouldn't restrain his conceptual void.

And Power Nullification would only works on things that they are shown to, otherwise it is NLF.

 

[Planck69]

It is not his soul and energy, it came from his authority and icon which is type 1 concept. Restraining his soul and energy wouldn't restrain his conceptual void.

And he can act through said void despite being dead in body and soul? The power nullification is one thing but he's still being crushed in those facets as well.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

And he can act through said void despite being dead in body and soul? The power nullification is one thing but he's still being crushed in those facets as well.

It's passive and he can act as an abstract type 2 being as a Dreadgod, being a hunger madra of the universe.

Also this from Power nullification page: It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and also that a character may be resistant to the ability, at least in one of its forms, preventing it from having its usual effects.

Power Nullification

Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to nullify the powers and abilities of others, preventing or disabling their effects. The mechanisms by which this effect is accomplished and their restrictions vary from character to character, but the ability is often limited to a certain type...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Planck69]

It's passive and he can act as an abstract type 2 being as a Dreadgod, being a hunger madra of the universe.

Also this from Power nullification page: It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and also that a character may be resistant to the ability, at least in one of its forms, preventing it from having its usual effects.

Power Nullification

Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to nullify the powers and abilities of others, preventing or disabling their effects. The mechanisms by which this effect is accomplished and their restrictions vary from character to character, but the ability is often limited to a certain type...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hmm. Alright then.

You're lucky Soul Formation cultivators are 5-B smh.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Proposing that we ban all Cultivating verses/characters on the list...

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Proposing that we ban all Cultivating verses/characters on the list...

Weaker Chinese verse: poison that destroys your body and soul in the first chapter.

 

[Wesker018]

Weakest chinaman: im beyond real life people

 

[DontTalkDT]

Kagami have weakness that she can't passively defend an attack that she can't imagine, and I'm sure she cannot imagined Willverse Cultivator bullshit. Even if she have resistance to Concept Manip it wasn't layered.

Lindon have this.

[7 Layers of Authority + 16 Layers of Soul/Mind Manipulation/Power Nullification & Resistance]

Why wouldn't she be able to imagine that?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Why wouldn't she be able to imagine that?

Why she can imagine that? What kind of attacks she can imagine?

In my opinion, this girl never heard of Chinaman passively destroying someone passively via hunger Madras (absorb soul, body, quantum, concept and law), void icon and authority (passive CM type 1 erasure), spiritual pressure (mind, body and soul destruction).

So she can't imagine that.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Why she can imagine that? What kind of attacks she can imagine?

In my opinion, this girl never heard of Chinaman passively destroying someone passively via hunger Madras (absorb soul, body, quantum, concept and law), void icon and authority (passive CM type 1 erasure), spiritual pressure (mind, body and soul destruction).

So she can't imagine that.

Imagination here is literally that. Imagination. Not some supernatural version of it. These powers don't seem awfully hard for someone to imagine the existence of. Their complexity doesn't exactly explode an average human's mental horizon.
Incidentally, CM1 tech was already known in her verse literally millennia before she was born and the rest is basic witch abilities. Heck, as we consider names concepts, these may be basic witch abilities, too. Would depend on a direct comparison of metaphysical aspects. Might end up just being equal to Ether as well... Heck, Kagami literally has a technique called Concept Erasure.

I don't see why this would be beyond her imagination in any way.

 

[Livinmeme]

Lindon mutual kill both him and Wang Lin -destroying Wang Lin info type 2 and concept, but then he will regenned himself.

Lindon is going to be Low 1-A/1-A hax, wang lin isn't regenerating from that

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Imagination here is literally that. Imagination. Not some supernatural version of it. These powers don't seem awfully hard for someone to imagine the existence of. Their complexity doesn't exactly explode an average human's mental horizon.
Incidentally, CM1 tech was already known in her verse literally millennia before she was born and the rest is basic witch abilities. Heck, as we consider names concepts, these may be basic witch abilities, too. Would depend on a direct comparison of metaphysical aspects. Heck, Kagami literally has a technique called Concept Erasure.

I don't see why this would be beyond her imagination in any way.

Dunno man, I don't think she have knowledge about chinese cultivation to imagine Cradle power system.

Lindon concept erasure is 7 layers and he can exist as hunger madras itself.

 

[Livinmeme]

Incidentally, CM1 tech was already known in her verse literally millennia before she was born and the rest is basic witch abilities. Heck, as we consider names concepts, these may be basic witch abilities, too. Would depend on a direct comparison of metaphysical aspects. Heck, Kagami literally has a technique called Concept Erasure.

Also Lindon CM1 is like 5 layers at this point, and he can just get new layers by getting motivated.
PD: Also evey attack of lindon is powered by CM3 (Which basically all god tiers should have, but eh).

 

[DontTalkDT]

Dunno man, I don't think she have knowledge about chinese cultivation to imagine Cradle power system.

Lindon concept erasure is 7 layers and he can exist as hunger madras itself.

7 Layers isn't hard to imagine. That's just same thing but more powerful. The difficulty of imagination doesn't really scale with power. Like, regular humans imagine vastly more powerful stuff all the time.
And she doesn't need to have actually come up with the thing for it to be blocked or have the knowledge, she just needs to have the theoretical ability to imagine it. That's why beating her isn't as simple as coming up with an priorly unknown spell. Nothing you said implies in any way that she can't imagine a power system like that.

Incidentally, from what I read on his page, I don't think I would put his concept powers above the Name/Ether level, which is below the plot level in abstractness. Like, nothingness beyond just vacuum would be the result of removing Ether from an area. Definitions are names. Both are above laws of nature, governing and defining them. Didn't see anything that would put it at a superior nature to manipulating those things.

Also Lindon CM1 is like 5 layers at this point, and he can just get new layers by getting motivated.
PD: Also evey attack of lindon is powered by CM3 (Which basically all god tiers should have, but eh).

This isn't really a CM vs CM Resistance contest. If the CM can't affect plot manip more layers won't automatically let it do that.

 

[Livinmeme]

7 Layers isn't hard to imagine. That's just same thing but more powerful. The difficulty of imagination doesn't really scale with power. Like, regular humans imagine vastly more powerful stuff all the time.
And she doesn't need to have actually come up with the thing for it to be blocked or have the knowledge, she just needs to have the theoretical ability to imagine it. That's why beating her isn't as simple as coming up with an priorly unknown spell. Nothing you said implies in any way that she can't imagine a power system like that.

Incidentally, from what I read on his page, I don't think I would put his concept powers above the Name/Ether level, which is below the plot level in abstractness. Like, nothingness beyond just vacuum would be the result of removing Ether from an area. Definitions are names. Both are above laws of nature, governing and defining them. Didn't see anything that would put it at a superior nature to manipulating those things.

Oh yes, go get those things accepted, or at the very least into the profiles, and now we are talking.

 

[DaReaperMan]

7 Layers isn't hard to imagine. That's just same thing but more powerful. The difficulty of imagination doesn't really scale with power. Like, regular humans imagine vastly more powerful stuff all the time.
And she doesn't need to have actually come up with the thing for it to be blocked or have the knowledge, she just needs to have the theoretical ability to imagine it. That's why beating her isn't as simple as coming up with an priorly unknown spell. Nothing you said implies in any way that she can't imagine a power system like that.

Incidentally, from what I read on his page, I don't think I would put his concept powers above the Name/Ether level, which is below the plot level in abstractness. Like, nothingness beyond just vacuum would be the result of removing Ether from an area. Definitions are names. Both are above laws of nature, governing and defining them. Didn't see anything that would put it at a superior nature to manipulating those things.

I'm hearing that this ability is extremely wanked instead of just limiting it to either Elemental Manipulation+other physical abilities or what's been seen in the verse. Probably both.

 

[Wesker018]

7 Layers isn't hard to imagine. That's just same thing but more powerful. The difficulty of imagination doesn't really scale with power. Like, regular humans imagine vastly more powerful stuff all the time.
And she doesn't need to have actually come up with the thing for it to be blocked or have the knowledge, she just needs to have the theoretical ability to imagine it. That's why beating her isn't as simple as coming up with an priorly unknown spell. Nothing you said implies in any way that she can't imagine a power system like that.

Incidentally, from what I read on his page, I don't think I would put his concept powers above the Name/Ether level, which is below the plot level in abstractness. Like, nothingness beyond just vacuum would be the result of removing Ether from an area. Definitions are names. Both are above laws of nature, governing and defining them. Didn't see anything that would put it at a superior nature to manipulating those things.

That´s an absurd NLF bro wtf

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

That´s an absurd NFL bro wtf

NFL

 

[Livinmeme]

This isn't really a CM vs CM Resistance contest. If the CM can't affect plot manip more layers won't automatically let it do that.

Plot and CM are the accepted to be of the same importance now.

 

[Wesker018]

NFL

lmao fixed

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

7 Layers isn't hard to imagine. That's just same thing but more powerful. The difficulty of imagination doesn't really scale with power. Like, regular humans imagine vastly more powerful stuff all the time.

Isn't this just NLF???

There aren't and never was 7 layers cm type 1 in that verse, and now there is because she imagined it?

Incidentally, from what I read on his page, I don't think I would put his concept powers above the Name/Ether level, which is below the plot level in abstractness. Like, nothingness beyond just vacuum would be the result of removing Ether from an area. Definitions are names. Both are above laws of nature, governing and defining them. Didn't see anything that would put it at a superior nature to manipulating those things.

Underline Metaphysics [Layers of Laws]​

The more metaphysical nature of reality is fundamentally made up of laws layered over each other in such a way that the lower laws serve as the supports for the higher laws yet are still superseded by them, the lowest level consists of the worlds physical laws, essentially physics as a whole [The Baseline], superseded by the particular metaphysics related to a worlds built in energy system which break, bend and overrule said physical laws, to an admittedly limited degree [The First Layer], while beyond that are laws or changes enacted through the will of an ascended being [The Second Layer][13]. There are more layers of superiority that go beyond just what was outlined prior [Two Layers] which are inherently built into the any interactions between the abilities of ascended beings because when two principles that already outrank physical laws come in contact with each other the superior one will overwrite the lesser one by virtue of outrank it similarly to how they already outrank physical laws, furthering the layers of laws, so all ascended beings inherently have [Two Layers] above baseline abilities[14].

An Iterations innate power systems are fundamentally just aspects of it's inherent metaphysics[15] which function in a manner that isn't directly tied to the Way in the sense that they actively draw from the Way in it's purest form[16] but are still shaped by it's concept, specifically whatever Icons it is more attuned to[14].

Iteration 110 [Cradle]​

In Cradle, Dreadgods exist in a state of being fundamentally part of the world's rules, substance, it's very fabric[15] as a result of being tied to an unnatural variation of one of the iterations energy systems known as Aura, in particular Hunger Aura, showing clearly that a world's energy system is inherently built into it's fabric[17]. Aura as a whole is one unified force, simply the soul of the world[18] and a manifestation of it's power[19] that creates and accumulates alongside the physical processes of the world[20] including phenomena that are inherently intangible and conceptual like death or destruction[21] such that aura can form multiple dualities like air and earth, heat and cold even life and death[22].

And Lindon is already on second layer, Icon is already above laws. Read the cosmology before writing that.

Icons [Archetypal Concepts]​

Icons are archetypal[65] greater concepts of reality[66] which are fundamentally intrinsic to all of reality[67] because they serve as the single template for all things they represent[68] to such a degree that alterations to them change all of reality itself [Conceptual Manipulation] and Icons have complimentary halves, opposites, which are present alongside them to form a duality[69]. These concepts are sourced and empowered by the Way[70], the fundamental basis for all of existence[63], which exists deeper than[55] and completely separate from reality[71] such that Icons themselves exist beyond the world[72] and the manifestation of their power is "projected from beyond reality"[73].

The Void is the endless pure lack of existence[86] said to be beyond existence[87] that resides outside the Way itself[88] surrounding it[39] while similarly being beyond additional depth as space peels away from like a wallpaper revealing the "deeper hole" that is the Void[6] beyond all directions of space[54], reality[55] and time[7][8]. The Void constitutes a pure nonexistence[89] and endless chaos[90] which causes the break down the Ways influence wherever it finds a foothold[86].

Nonexistence and Annihilation​

As a force of nonexistence and annihilation[89] outside the influence of Way[88] the Void naturally lacks the various metaphysical properties it provides such as Icons as a whole[70] including the Void Icon which is the concept of nonexistence itself[70] and it's counterpart which is the concept of existence[69] [Nonexistent Physiology: Nature 2 - Aspects 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5], causality which is absent from anything erased from the Way[91], laws which are erased from within it[90], Physics which it inherently lacks[34], Logic which it also inherently lacks[90], Fate is separate from it[19][88] and it would naturally reside outside the Ways metaphysical record storage system which stores fundamental information[70].