Top 10 Strongest Characters for Every Tier Continuation

[Ss3micah]

Is it passive? Because if not, madoka conceptually nukes passively.

Anyways its Thought based
But killing her with concept nuke would achieve nothing since even when absent from the narrative completely Arale can use her plot hax to will herself back into existence
That and she can directly do so to become 5-D
She also has Immortal 8 and Acausal 3 based on 4th Wall Shenanigans and granted to her 5-D beings so she would still come back regardless as Madoka cant stop the 5-D beings from doing so

That is the main weakness then. Basically she will get destroyed by Madoka's conceptual passives and her other passives.

Concept Hax isnt passive from what Ive heard from other supporters

 

[Dereck03]

Arale's first moves changes a lot these days

I know right, one match it's one thing, the next it's another, and the one after that it's another...

Becaming HDE is her first move? If so then you guys contradict so much with Arale's first moves.

Yeah

 

[Ss3micah]

Arale's first moves changes a lot these days

I know right, one match it's one thing, the next it's another, and the one after that it's another...

It honestly depends on the situation case depending on which sutuation you set her in she responds differently to each

Against the Author Avatars, she literally has to start with becoming 5-D because she cant affect them at all without doing so

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

If she doesnt have feat of surviving while erased conceptually you cannot assume she can come back from it via plot hax.

She survives plot erasure but not conceptual erasure.
Idk if she survived having all version of her erased in time but feats matter here

 

[DaReaperMan]

It honestly depends on the situation case depending on which sutuation you set her in she responds differently to each

Against the Author Avatars, she literally has to start with becoming 5-D because she cant affect them at all without doing so

Then say that her first move depends on the situation to start with.

 

[Orioreeem]

If she can come back from plot erasure why doesn't she have high-godly?

 

[Ss3micah]

Arale's first moves changes a lot these days

I know right, one match it's one thing, the next it's another, and the one after that it's another...

Btw
Your speaking about a character that rarely ever actually fights anyone
She only ever encounters different situation and solves each different

She literally has no consistent pattern
I can name three examples where her FIRST MOVE were three COMPLETELY different things

 

[Ss3micah]

If she can come back from plot erasure why doesn't she have high-godly?

I thought of adding that as well but another supporter said it wasnt necessary as Plot Hax already covers it

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Then she has no consistent first move thats it. Stop saying its a first move when she has only done it once or twice and not consistently.

 

[Dereck03]

But killing her with concept nuke would achieve nothing since even when absent from the narrative completely Arale can use her plot hax to will herself back into existence

Someone with high godly regeneration negation can negate that, but iirc Madoka doesn't have that, or she have but it's not on her pf.

She also has Immortal 8 and Acausal 3 based on 4th Wall Shenanigans and granted to her 5-D beings so she would still come back regardless as Madoka cant stop the 5-D beings from doing so

Fair enough also don't see immo type 8 negation on madoka's profile. Also seems useless against High Godly Regen negation.

Concept Hax isnt passive from what Ive heard from other supporters

Well, her supporters should discuss that, i've heard otherwise so.

Also plot erasure =/= Concept erasure.

 

[Dereck03]

I'm going to question and at the same time not, but that Aca 3 just looks like HGR. Also it doesn't say that if one Arale is destroyed the other takes her place, anyway i'm out of this.

 

[Ss3micah]

Someone with high godly regeneration negation can negate that, but iirc Madoka doesn't have that, or she have but it's not on her pf.

Fair enough also don't see immo type 8 negation on madoka's profile. Also seems useless against High Godly Regen negation.

Well, her supporters should discuss that, i've heard otherwise so.

Also plot erasure =/= Concept erasure.

This seems like a win for Madoka in all likelyhood then
She would just kill Arale and then even if she comes back through Regen, Immortality or Acausality, she would just keep on passively dying over and over and over and because no time is passing her to think she wont be able to use HDE

Yup Madoka wins here

 

[Everything12]

So John gets interacted by characters like The Condesce once? And that’s it for Type 5? (I know there’s MSPA Reader as well, but I’m just using an example)

It’s literally stated that he’s unbound by the ties of causality (it’s even on the profile), how is that not Type 5, he even stated himself that he transcends the confines of canon after Collide anyway

The Horrorterrors have Type 1 & 4 and yet are still bound by all of that. So how does John not have Type 5?

I've read the whole of Homestuck, and Pesterquest, and Homestuck 2, The Condesce is far from the only person who interacted with someone with Retcon powers.

And all of that is evidence that he unbound by Causality, but it is not evidence that his acausal nature has led to him being unable to be interacted normally with, which the new standards of Acausality Type 5 requires.

Simply being stated to be completely unbound from causality is no longer enough for Acausality Type 5, those statements now have to have evidence that said state of being unbound from causality leads to them being unable to be interacted normally with.

After a bit of fact checking:
Looking at this objectively. I think you would end up having a Rock Paper Scissors Situation for this

Puella Magi beats John because of Puella Magi has Type 5 Acausal characters so both sides can interact with each other plus Puella Magi Type 5 Acausal has Intangibility untop or that and Passives John does resist

John beats Arale because she can only hope to beat Type 5 Acausals with 5-D Plot Hax which John Hard resists

Arale beats Puella Magi because 5-D plot hax beats Acausal 5 Puella Magi characters who dont resist at all

Puella Magi's Type 5 only extends to a Tier 2 system, while Homestucks is a 1-A system. Currently they can't do anything.

Our Conceptual Manipulation standards doesn't work like that. So arale cannot be interact with Madoka at all. Judge by the first move of each one

Wrong, being an Abstract Existence does not prevent higher dimensional hax from affecting you. The Creation Trio alone are more then enough evidence to show that Abstract Existence isn't helping against smurfs regardless of them having NPI or not.

 

[Planck69]

Higher dimensional hax still has to actually interact with its intended targets though, I have no idea where this idea that it trounces all lower order beings comes from. So like Tier 1 mind-hax for example doesn't automatically affect lower dimensional abstracts if it has no feats of such a level of NPI.

Not commenting on the Tier 2/1 Type 5 Acausality since I've been away way too long to judge if that's now a thing lol.

 

[Delta333]

Puella Magi's Type 5 only extends to a Tier 2 system, while Homestucks is a 1-A system. Currently they can't do anything.

John gets beaten because PMMM passives him to void alongside with bunch of methods to incap instantly, acau 5 was never a reason.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Shouldn’t John Egbert be in 2-A with Caliborn? He has 1-A hax and 1-A resistances

wwait, do you think it is fair match with Anos?

 

[Everything12]

Higher dimensional hax still has to actually interact with its intended targets though, I have no idea where this idea that it trounces all lower order beings comes from. So like Tier 1 mind-hax for example doesn't automatically affect lower dimensional abstracts if it has no feats of such a level of NPI.

Isn't a thing, tons of character who don't have the NPI to interact with Concepts have defeated characters with Abstract Existence Type 1.

John gets beaten because PMMM passives him to void alongside with bunch of methods to incap instantly, acau 5 was never a reason.

Currently they can't affect his level of Acausality Type 5, meaning they can't affect him at all regardless of what passives they have. Plus he has Outerversal ranged teleportation.

wwait, do you think it is fair match with Anos?

Acausality Type 5 on a 1-A system says no. Anos can't do anything to him, because at best he can interact someone who is acausal of a Tier 2 system.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Finally Acausality 5 has been patched and is now balanced gg no re

 

[ImmortalDread]

Acausality Type 5 on a 1-A system says no. Anos can't do anything to him, because at best he can interact someone who is acausal of a Tier 2 system.

Oh fair but the profile need a lot of rework.

 

[Planck69]

Isn't a thing, tons of character who don't have the NPI to interact with Concepts have defeated characters with Abstract Existence Type 1.

Then that's definitely an issue. Dimensionality isn't a catch all for lower level beings at all beyond potency of certain powers and range. Either the defeats were via mechanics that didn't require direct interaction, the characters in question actually have that level of NPI or we've been handwaving away PIS for no other reason than "he's 420 dimensional".

 

[Delta333]

Can't comment much on new acau 5 since I'm not up to date with it, but based on what reasons to say that those characters can affect with AE without having NPI feats? Don't even try to say that "because they can't touch X, who is another AE being" because it just means X has resistance to NPI or layered incorporeality.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

indirect method of attacking.
Take it like someone with enough range to destroy a universe alongside its spacetime and everything within it would be able to technically kill The type 2 Concept AE that is reliant to said universe.


or using powers that would indirectly affect AE without needing to touch them physically etc

 

[Planck69]

indirect method of attacking.
Take it like someone with enough range to destroy a universe alongside its spacetime and everything within it would be able to technically kill The type 2 Concept AE that is reliant to said universe.


or using powers that would indirectly affect AE without needing to touch them physically etc

I mean, that's very different from directly attacking someone and somehow killing them despite lacking the NPI just because you're higher dimensional/higher order in existence. That's the main issue.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Higher dimensional wouldn't characters would have ranged already to even affect lower realms and reality and even destroy it
Destroying the planes of existence in the lower realm would technically end everything in that lower realm. that is an option specially if they have Higher-dimensional manipulation which allows them to interact with higher and lower dimensions unlike us who can't interact physically with 2D

 

[PainKiller07]

Higher dimensional wouldn't characters would have ranged already to even affect lower realms and reality and even destroy it
Destroying the planes of existence in the lower realm would technically end everything in that lower realm. that is an option specially if they have Higher-dimensional manipulation which allows them to interact with higher and lower dimensions unlike us who can't interact physically with 2D

I get your logic, though not really sure about other types of abstraction. But as far as type 1 concepts are concerned, you would practically have no way to destroy them “indirectly” due to the property of being indepedent from their respective plane/dimension/reality.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I get your logic, though not really sure about other types of abstraction. But as far as type 1 concepts are concerned, you would practically have no way to destroy them “indirectly” due to the property of being indepedent from their respective plane/dimension/reality.

If you're independent of your plane but not above it in a way of transcending it to another plane you're still existing in a plane of existence of the lower realm compared to the higher one. destruction of a lower plane would encompass even that and you would need feats of surviving something like that for one to assume that they will be unaffected

 

[Delta333]

If you're independent of your plane but not above it in a way of transcending it to another plane you're still existing in a plane of existence of the lower realm compared to the higher one. destruction of a lower plane would encompass even that and you would need feats of surviving something like that for one to assume that they will be unaffected

? No, what you said is outright contradicted to the whole reason that makes type 2 being different with type 1, so where do you get this idea from again?

Plus I'm not sure what does it have to do with the whole topic about whether higher D hax (that's similar to Arale' plot manip) can influence concept from lower D. They can't passively nuke the lower reality at all.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

? No, what you said is outright contradicted to the whole reason that makes type 2 being different with type 1, so where do you get this idea from again?

Umm Concept type 1 is being independent of the reality they govern. you can be independent of reality within the universe or verse you're in.
a verse that can either be only low 2-C or 2-A if said franchise is only limited to tier 2 and not to tier 1 then they are within that confines and they are only independent on that level


similar to acausal type 5 you can;t assume they are unbound or independent on a higher system logic of higher dimension

 

[Delta333]

Umm Concept type 1 is being independent of the reality they govern. you can be independent of reality within the universe or verse you're in.
a verse that can either be only low 2-C or 2-A if said franchise is only limited to tier 2 and not to tier 1 then they are within that confines and they are only independent on that level


similar to acausal type 5 you can;t assume they are unbound or independent on a higher system logic of higher dimension

And which part that you refer changes the fact that concept type 1 is unfazed by the change of reality?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

And which part that you refer changes the fact that concept type 1 is unfazed by the change of reality?

Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts.

Part of reality they govern.
they are independent from reality they govern. not all of reality but rather all of reality within their area of influence doesn't mean they are completely unbound by all kinds of reality including higher one or higher powers reality and logic

 

[Delta333]

Part of reality they govern.
they independent from the reality they govern not all of reality but rather all of reality within their area of influence

And since when I said that they're independent of all reality, even higher reality that they don't govern?
Again you said by yourself that they're independent of reality they govern (here means lower reality), yet you also said that nuking lower reality will be enough to indirectly kill them

?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Added everyone expect Kelly to 5-A since she isn't physically that tier.

She's only that tier in terms of AP, while she's only physically 5-B.

Also added Fang Xiu to the 2nd placement of Low 1-A as well.

More LDG Time;

Kelly is 5-A physically now with her amps so she should take Blazblues spot with 100,000+ Layers of Low 1-A Resistances, Resistance Negation & Potency.

Fang Xiu should take Kingprotea's spot in 3-A as he reaches that tier physically with his amps. He has High 1-B to Low 1-A Smurf Hax including Spatial Manip, Conceptual Time Manip, Matter Manip, Subjective Reality, Invulnerability, Immortality (Type 4 & 5), and Time Reversal upon death so she really has no chance.

Fang Xiu should also take D's spot in High 3-A for all the reasons above and due to his Low 1-A Resistances to everything D has (Including Plot Manipulation).

And lastly, Wendy should take Avenger Ishtar's spot in Low 2-C as she can't interact with Low 1-A Transduality Type 2 or Acausality Type 5 while Wendy's abilities all have potentially Uncountably Infinite Low 1-A Potency & Resistances.

Edit; And oh Wendy should also take Gan's Spot in High 1-B unless he has 1-A Stuff.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

More LDG Time;

Kelly is 5-A physically now with her amps so she should take Blazblues spot with 100,000+ Layers of Low 1-A Resistances, Resistance Negation & Potency.

Fang Xiu should take Kingprotea's spot in 3-A as he reaches that tier physically with his amps. He has High 1-B to Low 1-A Smurf Hax including Spatial Manip, Conceptual Time Manip, Matter Manip, Subjective Reality, Invulnerability, Immortality (Type 4 & 5), and Time Reversal upon death so she really has no chance.

Fang Xiu should also take D's spot in High 3-A for all the reasons above and due to his Low 1-A Resistances to everything D has (Including Plot Manipulation).

And lastly, Wendy should take Avenger Ishtar's spot in Low 2-C as she can't interact with Low 1-A Transduality Type 2 or Acausality Type 5 while Wendy's abilities all have potentially Uncountably Infinite Low 1-A Potency & Resistances.

A this rate the meme of "my infinity is bigger than your" is Turning into "my Infinity is more chinese than your".

 

[Roun12]

100,000+ Layers of Low 1-A Resistances, Resistance Negation & Potency.

 

[Noneless21]

A this rate the meme of "my infinity is bigger than your" is Turning into "my Infinity is more chinese than your".

cough cough

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I get your logic, though not really sure about other types of abstraction. But as far as type 1 concepts are concerned, you would practically have no way to destroy them “indirectly” due to the property of being indepedent from their respective plane/dimension/reality.

I missed this one...
i don't remember Type 1 being independent from their Dimensional plane or Plane of existence necessary to define their dimensionality
all I know is that Type 1 is independent from the reality and I don't think reality is equal to dimensional plane or Plane of existence
if they do that's basically saying they are also BDE type 1

 

[PainKiller07]

i don't remember Type 1 being independent from their Dimensional plane or Plane of existence necessary to define their dimensionality

it's not

all I know is that Type 1 is independent from the reality and I don't think reality is equal to dimensional plane or Plane of existence

if they do that's basically saying they are also BDE type 1

Whattt. Okay so this is NLF to conveniently assume that every verse has a plane that is higher than conventional reality while still exists in the lower dimensional plane.

In Madoka's case, it's specifically stated that she has ascended to another plane of existence but still 2A and no BDE. So Idk, we are basically faulty in getting rid of every single special property that a character may have. Using your logic, NEP or Transdual or anything really, from a lower-dimensional being, even if it's infinitely layered or sth, would simply be bypassed by the fact that they still exist in their respective dimensionality, which is pretty dumb to think about.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

it's not


Whattt. Okay so this is NLF to conveniently assume that every verse has a plane that is higher than conventional reality while still exists in the lower dimensional plane.

In Madoka's case, it's specifically stated that she has ascended to another plane of existence but still 2A and no BDE. So Idk, we are basically faulty in getting rid of every single special property that a character may have. Using your logic, NEP or Transdual or anything really, from a lower-dimensional being, even if it's infinitely layered or sth, would simply be bypassed by the fact that they still exist in their respective dimensionality, which is pretty dumb to think about.

yes that is why even NEP has a note saying

Note: The aspects in which a character is not nonexistent in the common sense are what makes them into a 'living' character. As such, if a character with this power is reduced to a state in which they can't display any properties of something that exists (e.g. becomes unable to take any actions), they are effectively dead/erased. A consequence of that is that feats or special reasoning are required for a character with this ability to survive the complete erasure of their plane of existence, as one needs to confirm that they are able to still display some existent properties on a different plane of existence.

---

As for transduality that thing never made sense at all to me with how many varying explanations I get from other people and someone with the name shiva is planning some sort of change that would explain it better but I haven't asked him yet because his profile is limited. so I cannot comment on it

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

And since when I said that they're independent of all reality, even higher reality that they don't govern?
Again you said by yourself that they're independent of reality they govern (here means lower reality), yet you also said that nuking lower reality will be enough to indirectly kill them

?

going back to this

even if he's independent of conventional reality. he would still be existing in a lower reality or a lower plane compared to the higher one which the higher being could technically still destroy with HDM because his range as a higher being would encompass all that is on the lower plane. but of course, it would actually need said character to be capable of existing as a higher dimensional being else he would also destroy himself if he has AP or HDM to do so but he's still 3D.

 

[Randomlamdom]

In Madoka's case, it's specifically stated that she has ascended to another plane of existence but still 2A and no BDE. So Idk, we are basically faulty in getting rid of every single special property that a character may have. Using your logic, NEP or Transdual or anything really, from a lower-dimensional being, even if it's infinitely layered or sth, would simply be bypassed by the fact that they still exist in their respective dimensionality, which is pretty dumb to think about.

Honestly i think there might be enough evidence for madoka to have bde but puella magi is a bit dead right now