Tomura Shigaraki vs Crocodile

[CyborgSakumo]

Sure is a lot of backhanded talking and passive aggressiveness going on here.

Anyway, for my two cents, I do think Shigaraki wins, but let’s clear up some of these misconceptions.

1) Shigaraki is absolutely stopped by the elemental intangibility, but there is no reasoning he can’t decay sand, he just has to touch it, which is hard. So if he makes Crocodile solid, he should be ok to decay him, provided Crocodile actually dies from it since he can probably cut away the body part and regen.

2) Crocodile can get past the regen, as it wears down with repeated damage due to Shigaraki not being complete yet. So if he manages to drain him really badly a few times, he can kill him. He also isn’t really bothered by Air Cannon, since he’s sand, so he has some things going for him.

3) Fear manipulation seems really bad for Crocodile if he doesn’t resist it, because Shigaraki will absolutely use it to paralyze and hinder his abilities. His Fear Manipulation also affects those that aren’t afraid of death, as mind controlled minions that weren’t afraid of death stopped in fear from him looking at them. So I would recommend clearing up any solutions to that on Crocodiles side.

4) Why has no one discussed the possibility of Shigaraki just stealing Crocodiles powers? If Devil Fruits are even kinda genetic, Shigaraki can just open his palm and suck out the Sand Fruit and now Crocodile is powerless. That seems to be a worse problem than even the fear manipulation.

Also, Cyber, stop acting like you have absolute power just because you made the thread. Debate with respect to everyone, including the people that disagree. Denying what they are claiming to be wincons because you personally don’t agree is faulty logic. You’re not exactly doing yourself a service when you claim you’re the only one that has facts.

Either way, Shiggy FRA until more reasons for Crocodile are given. His wincons are more solid than Crocodiles.

I'll take the L for the passive aggressiveness I was getting heated, I was in the wrong for shutting him down with I made the thread I should have just stuck to the fact.

Also just to clarify two things

one Crocodile's elemental intagibility is negated by his own weakness to blood which shigaraki would know via Search, If the weakness didn't exist it would be a different fight.

two Air cannon can be used to disperse Crocodile's sand, not actually harm him, Ie if he uses stuff like sand tornado,it's a counter not a wincon.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Sure is a lot of backhanded talking and passive aggressiveness going on here.

Anyway, for my two cents, I do think Shigaraki wins, but let’s clear up some of these misconceptions.

1) Shigaraki is absolutely stopped by the elemental intangibility, but there is no reasoning he can’t decay sand, he just has to touch it, which is hard. So if he makes Crocodile solid, he should be ok to decay him, provided Crocodile actually dies from it since he can probably cut away the body part and regen.

2) Crocodile can get past the regen, as it wears down with repeated damage due to Shigaraki not being complete yet. So if he manages to drain him really badly a few times, he can kill him. He also isn’t really bothered by Air Cannon, since he’s sand, so he has some things going for him.

3) Fear manipulation seems really bad for Crocodile if he doesn’t resist it, because Shigaraki will absolutely use it to paralyze and hinder his abilities. His Fear Manipulation also affects those that aren’t afraid of death, as mind controlled minions that weren’t afraid of death stopped in fear from him looking at them. So I would recommend clearing up any solutions to that on Crocodiles side.

4) Why has no one discussed the possibility of Shigaraki just stealing Crocodiles powers? If Devil Fruits are even kinda genetic, Shigaraki can just open his palm and suck out the Sand Fruit and now Crocodile is powerless. That seems to be a worse problem than even the fear manipulation.

Also, Cyber, stop acting like you have absolute power just because you made the thread. Debate with respect to everyone, including the people that disagree. Denying what they are claiming to be wincons because you personally don’t agree is faulty logic. You’re not exactly doing yourself a service when you claim you’re the only one that has facts.

Either way, Shiggy FRA until more reasons for Crocodile are given. His wincons are more solid than Crocodiles.

I actually liked this argument much more.

Honestly, this is an unfair stomp, because what else can Crocodile do? speed is equalized and apparently he can't resist fear manipulation according to this wikia,

But i hard disagree with your 4 argument, when a devil fruit user dies the fruit automatically teleports elsewhere, and Logia is rather a complex version of DF, for people who are completely unfamiliar with fighting against people who literally embodies an entire element, in Shigaraki's case that's something beyond his comprehension.

in any case, i feel disinterested in the debate, for real i'm going to sleep

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Getting in close combat and using blood hand(search tells him about weaknesses) to touch him(Likely)

Won't do anything since crocodile can just make new sand....

Fear Manip Paralyzes and shigaraki touches him(Possible)

Even if fear manipulation even works to the point of crocodile not being able to control his powers, he still is in his logia form...

Outlasting Crocodile via far greater Stamina and regen(Likely)

That isn't really a wincon... And this match will quickly because of their abilities.

 

[ThanatosX]

No it's not... Being in fear makes you not control your powers the same as you used to... Same with people who don't have logia powers. Crocodile being afraid to the point of not being able to use his power is complete wank.

Him not being able to use his powers properly is still a huge advantage for Shigaraki, especially considering that he will already know all of Crocodile's weakness and how to kill him. Never said that he wont ne able to use his power, but his ability to regenerate and control his body will decrease in a way that it will give Shigaraki an almost certain win.

In any case, i feel disinterested in the debate, for real i'm going to sleep

Good night!

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

one Crocodile's elemental intagibility is negated by his own weakness to blood which shigaraki would know via Search, If the weakness didn't exist it would be a different fight.

Blood makes his sand solid... (meaning able to hit him) but he can still generate new sand... Also it stated that shigaraki's decay crumble's things.... Not into dust

 

[CyborgSakumo]

From tomura's profile
His Quirk allows Tomura to destroy anything his hands touch, making it crumble to dust.

Tomura Shigaraki (Pre-Surgery)

Tomura Shigaraki (死柄木 弔 Shigaraki Tomura), original name Tenko Shimura (志村転弧 Shimura Tenko), was the protégé of All For One and the leader of the League of Villains. A dangerously unstable individual who looks up to his "Sensei" with the utmost awe and respect, Shigaraki plans on tearing down...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

From tomura's profile
His Quirk allows Tomura to destroy anything his hands touch, making it crumble to dust.

Link?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It is possible this is a stomp due to fear manipulation, but only if Shigaraki acts like immediately on it. So he would have to intentionally make himself bloody or get water, then fear crocodile, then decay him, which is a process in itself. It is absolutely a stomp however if my 4th point is correct.

I would agree DF’s couldn’t be stolen, but then there’s the case of Blackbeard stealing the Quake Fruit despite Whitebeard already being dead. So it doesn’t seem like DF’s have any inherent reason to be safe from being stolen.

Also, Tomura doesn’t even need Decay if he just coats himself in blood and beats Crocodile to death with his bare hands.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

It is possible this is a stomp due to fear manipulation, but only if Shigaraki acts like immediately on it. So he would have to intentionally make himself bloody or get water, then fear crocodile, then decay him, which is a process in itself. It is absolutely a stomp however if my 4th point is correct.

I would agree DF’s couldn’t be stolen, but then there’s the case of Blackbeard stealing the Quake Fruit despite Whitebeard already being dead. So it doesn’t seem like DF’s have any inherent reason to be safe from being stolen.

Also, Tomura doesn’t even need Decay if he just coats himself in blood and beats Crocodile to death with his bare hands.

According to the wiki definition this seems more decisive than stompish

Both characters have several methods of winning, including options that allow them to win instantly. However, one character can reliably use/activate their winning move(s) first
Crocodile could win if he stays out of shigaraki's reach and keeps dehydrating him, and fear manip isn't shigaraki's first move in character so I would call this more decisive than stomp , imo.

Regardless we're getting to the end of the discussion here so I'll start counting votes, if it's a stomp we'll decide that when adding it.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

It is possible this is a stomp due to fear manipulation, but only if Shigaraki acts like immediately on it. So he would have to intentionally make himself bloody or get water, then fear crocodile, then decay him, which is a process in itself. It is absolutely a stomp however if my 4th point is correct.

I would agree DF’s couldn’t be stolen, but then there’s the case of Blackbeard stealing the Quake Fruit despite Whitebeard already being dead. So it doesn’t seem like DF’s have any inherent reason to be safe from being stolen.

Also, Tomura doesn’t even need Decay if he just coats himself in blood and beats Crocodile to death with his bare hands.

We don't know for certain what Blackbeard did to whitebeard, there are a lot of theories, assumptions, and interpretations. Especially, the fact that Blackbeard survived when it was stated by i think spandam that eating two DFs will result in you dying immediately. Until, we get a proper explanation by blackbeard, then we can say for certain that he stole Whitebeard's fruit via a knife that forces the fruit to stay in whitebeard's body or stole it via Yami Yami no mi (my assumption is, it's one of Yami Yami no mi's hidden ability, hence why Blackbeard explicitly said it's the strongest DF or something like that)

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Can everyone who's on this thread state clearly who their voting for just so I can make this clear?

 

[Bernkastelll]

I am going with Shigaraki for now, kingofwolves arguments conviced me

 

[Kingofwolves999]

We don't know for certain what Blackbeard did to whitebeard, there are a lot of theories, assumptions, and interpretations. Especially, the fact that Blackbeard survived when it was stated by i think spandam that eating two DFs will result in you dying immediately. Until, we get a proper explanation by blackbeard, then we can say for certain that he stole Whitebeard's fruit via a knife that forces the fruit to stay in whitebeard's body or stole it via Yami Yami no mi (my assumption is, it's one of Yami Yami no mi's hidden ability, hence why Blackbeard explicitly said it's the strongest DF or something like that)

That’s also true, there might be like a whole process or something to steal a Devil Fruit. I’ll agree then that, at least until we actually figure out what he did in there, that only Blackbeard can steal DF’s conventionally.

 

[Ryuga21]

Can everyone who's on this thread state clearly who their voting for just so I can make this clear?

I voted for Shigaraki and so far I've only seen more reasons for him to win.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

I need votes from @Loyd @Kidkinsey @Metalballrun @TauanVictor

 

[Kidkinsey]

I got shiggy via Fear manip+decay combo

 

[KingTempest]

Incon tbh

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Same voting icon…leaning towards crocodile shigaraki can’t kill crocodile (since even if he can turn crocodile’s sand into dust by touching with blood, crocodile can still generate new sand) and crocodile can’t kill shigaraki quickly because of shigaraki’s regen… (feel like there are to many unknowns, one of them is probably maybe because some are hyping a character to much and being biased but )

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I mean.

If you disagree with the decay point, I made the argument that Shigaraki can just use his blood and beat Crocodile to death with his hands like Luffy did. Since he's like 3x stronger than him.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I mean.

If you disagree with the decay point, I made the argument that Shigaraki can just use his blood and beat Crocodile to death with his hands like Luffy did. Since he's like 3x stronger than him.

But 1. Speed is equal 2. The only reason luffy beat him with storm was range, speed and power 3. Luffy lost a lot of times to crocodile 4. Crocodile has range… aswell

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

If you disagree with the decay point

Are there any scans of shigaraki turning things to dust?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

But 1. Speed is equal 2. The only reason luffy beat him with storm was range, speed and power 3. Luffy lost a lot of times to crocodile 4. Crocodile has range… aswell

Shigaraki can fly and propel himself with Air Cannon, so closing the gap shouldn't be difficult. Speed being equal aids him here actually.

Shigaraki also has ranged, it just doesn't kill Crocodile. It does, however, completely negate all of Crocodiles attacks since they get blasted away with 3x his AP air pressure.

So he just blocks his attacks with air cannon then beats him up with bloody fists when he gets close.

Are there any scans of shigaraki turning things to dust?

When he wakes up in the hospital and decays a 3rd of a city into nothing is the most notable scene to me.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Shigaraki can fly and propel himself with Air Cannon, so closing the gap shouldn't be difficult.

Does he do that in character tho? Also crocodile can fly aswell (with much more mobility)

Shigaraki also has ranged, it just doesn't kill Crocodile. It does, however, completely negate all of Crocodiles attacks

All? not sure about that…

So he just blocks his attacks with air cannon

Can shigaraki spam air cannon?

then beats him up with bloody fists when he gets close.

Does his ap connect to his fists?

When he wakes up in the hospital and decays a 3rd of a city into nothing is the most notable scene to me.

Was there any dust? or did he just crumble the city to very small crumbles? because it states he crumbles things…

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Does he do that in character tho? Also crocodile can fly aswell (with much more mobility)



All? not sure about that…

Can shigaraki spam air cannon?

Does his ap connect to his fists?

Was there any dust? or did he just crumble the city to very small crumbles? because it states he crumbles things…

Uh, yes? That's one of his most basic quirks? And he does that several times in the war? Like when he escaped Blackwhip?

Which of Crocodiles ranged attacks are effective against mid air opponents? And which are able to not be blown away by the blast of an Air Cannon?

Yes? There has been no limitation shown, or even a "reload" function implied, for Air Cannon. In fact, he uses it twice in a row within seconds vs Endeavor before leaping after Deku, one of which was blocking a Flashfire Fist. So blocking Crocodiles attacks shouldn't be such a contentious belief?

He damages people that can take hits from his Air Cannon with his bare hands, like Endeavor. So yes, his AP is the same.

You can see in that chapter the dust rising up from the decayed city. Literally massive dust clouds that obscure vision for kilometers. And you do realize that things crumble into dust, right? That's the end state of crumbling.

 

[Bruhtelho]

The Next Symbol of Evil (Tomura) FRA

 

[Ryuga21]

Grace

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Uh, yes? That's one of his most basic quirks? And he does that several times in the war? Like when he escaped Blackwhip?

I mean propel himself up to fight..

Which of Crocodiles ranged attacks are effective against mid air opponents? And which are able to not be blown away by the blast of an Air Cannon?

• Sables (Sandstorm): Crocodile summons a massive tornado of sand and sends it on a rampage. Once this sandstorm grows large enough, not even he can stop it. He can also make a sandstorm that can suck the water out of living things and is apparently able to crack steel. Another usage is to send people flying with this technique. In deserts, it can cross the length of a small country and many of them in succession over a period of time can bury an entire city.

You can see in that chapter the dust rising up from the decayed city. Literally massive dust clouds that obscure vision for kilometers.

Didn’t see that

And you do realize that things crumble into dust, right? That's the end state of crumbling.

Well he never showed me turning things to dust… only small crumbles

 

[KingTempest]

Why I come and see ppl forgot he had tornadoes and regen?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Why I come and see ppl forgot he had tornadoes and regen?

?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Why I come and see ppl forgot he had tornadoes and regen?

I mean, he can be knocked out still through regen can he not? Like what Luffy did to beat him in Alabasta? So I don't see that argument having much merit.

As for the Tornado, doesn't it have to grow large in order to matter to Tomura? And weren't a lot of his better feats with his tornadoes over time? And would he even try using them here in a straight up fight? And are they even as effective as he is at draining moisture quickly, which Tomura can regen from?

 

[KingTempest]

I mean, he can be knocked out still through regen can he not? Like what Luffy did to beat him in Alabasta? So I don't see that argument having much merit.

Luffy barraged him with a bunch of hits while hitting him while weak

As for the Tornado, doesn't it have to grow large in order to matter to Tomura?

It’s his AP regularly, and it only goes up from there

And weren't a lot of his better feats with his tornadoes over time? And would he even try using them here in a straight up fight?

Did it to Luffy

And are they even as effective as he is at draining moisture quickly, which Tomura can regen from?

Not as effective, but he can stretch limbs with sand. How’s Shigaraki to poison tho? Haven’t reread the war arc

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Luffy barraged him with a bunch of hits while hitting him while weak

It’s his AP regularly, and it only goes up from there

Did it to Luffy

Not as effective, but he can stretch limbs with sand. How’s Shigaraki to poison tho? Haven’t reread the war arc

Couldn't Shigaraki just do the same? Just coat his arms with liquid and beat the hell out of him? From what I remember, being exposed to a liquid makes him solid, with blood being how Luffy did it. Also, assuming SBA, there should be sources of water nearby he can exploit.

For a tornado? Couldn't Shigaraki disperse it before it gets bigger? Cause he beats Croc in AP.

In the case of him stretching his hand out, Shigaraki should be fully capable of blasting his limb with an Air Cannon, dodging because his Search quirk lets him now where Crocodile is all the time or just tanking it cause he'll heal while exploiting Crocodiles attack to get closer. Idk how good he is vs poison, it's possible Super Regeneration just negates it, but assuming it doesn't, I feel Crocodile would have a hard time hitting him with the hook. Shigaraki has cqc on par with the best heroes out there and people that have trained for decades, so avoiding the hook shouldn't be difficult if he can see it. Shigaraki is also a tactical monster in combat when it comes to dodging or denying attacks, seen in most of his fights. Also, the hook is actually solid if it's trying to hit him, so he can decay it and Croc loses a win con. Worst case he just cuts away the infected body part or rips his own head off like Hood and regens a full body in seconds.

 

[KingTempest]

All good points. Welp, Shiggy gg unless I can come up with a point before grace ends

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I'd say this fight becomes irrelevant after the revisions, but Shigaraki would just fight 7-A Crocodile and the fight would go the same.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

If only he had Haki and more Feats. Actually how does he not have haki

 

[Kingofwolves999]

If only he had Haki and more Feats. Actually how does he not have haki

I mean, he lived in East Blue and has a fruit that one shots basically anyone that isn’t careful or knows his power. Not knowing Haki is kinda standard with that set up.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I mean, he lived in East Blue and has a fruit that one shots basically anyone that isn’t careful or knows his power. Not knowing Haki is kinda standard with that set up.

Yeah, like Caribou

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Yeah, like Caribou

Every crocodile fan silently died inside when he got compared to caribou.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Lmfao