Tomura Shigaraki vs Crocodile

[Kidkinsey]

yeah the fact that fear manip has shown to stop a logia from doing their thing is pretty big here

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Fear Manipulation isn't based on the fact that the opponent is stronger than you, but it's from the Willpower or the mental ability of the character that has the Fear Manipulation, and this kind of things ignore stuff like strenght so Crocodile will definitely get affected by it. And it's a really important part of the fight because it was already shown that Fear can block a Logia from regenerating, as seen during the fight between Monet and Zoro.

For now I'm just reading the arguments and I will stay neutral, but I'm slightly more toward voting Shigaraki.

"Shown that fear can block a logia from regenerating, as seen during the fight between monet and zoro" Except, that wasn't really the case here. Logia has been constantly and consistently stated to be working regardless of emotions, it's not indicated that the emotions affect their regeneration that's just an assumption which you would have to prove, because you can also interpret that fight as Zoro activated conquer haki unconsciously. Saying that fear manipulation affects on Logia was never once stated throughout the series

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Also btw, I'm not counting votes until all arguments have been fully fleshed out that's why I'm not updating yet.

2 It was directly stated in the chapter that she couldn't regenerate because she was scared there's no ambiguity there. The exact statement was that money couldn't control her body because of her fear of zoro's overwhelming power one piece chapter 687.

 

[ThanatosX]

"Shown that fear can block a logia from regenerating, as seen during the fight between monet and zoro" Except, that wasn't really the case here. Logia has been constantly and consistently stated to be working regardless of emotions, it's not indicated that the emotions affect their regeneration that's just an assumption which you would have to prove, because you can also interpret that fight as Zoro activated conquer haki unconsciously. Saying that fear manipulation affects on Logia was never once stated throughout the series

Go read the fight between Zoro and Monet. Chapter 687. After Zoro cut Monet in two, Tashigi clearly says: "She lost control of her body... It's thanks of her overwhelming fear of such strong opponent".

So yes, emotional state plays a big role in Logia's abilities. Unless you want to say that it was something else that blocked her regeneration, and in this case you will need to provide evidences of this.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Shigaraki's entire fighting style is h2h combat that is exactly how he fights have you not watched this story. If his hands get bloody crocodile's body will become solid which mean decay will effect him it's that simple.

I asked you a question, how exactly are you imagining this? Shigaraki running towards Crocodile and attempting to touch him? as i've explained before is the only way for him to be able to touch him, you are misunderstanding my point, allow me to rephrase that Shigraki doesn't have many close combat abilities, aside from touching him enemies via his decay plus he doesn't have many really close combat feats comparable to luffy, his fighting style reached to a point that's completely unpredictable and that even old foes have trouble outsmarting him.

Also btw, I'm not counting votes until all arguments have been fully fleshed out that's why I'm not updating yet.

2 It was directly stated in the chapter that she couldn't regenerate because she was scared there's no ambiguity there. The exact statement was that money couldn't control her body because of her fear of zoro's overwhelming power one piece chapter 687.

Scans please? plus we are going by this wiki's rules as long as it's added as explicit weakness in every logia users' pages, it shouldn't be even considered be a thing in the first place

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Go read the fight between Zoro and Monet. Chapter 687. After Zoro cut Monet in two, Tashigi clearly says: "She lost control of her body... It's thanks of her overwhelming fear of such strong opponent".

So yes, emotional state plays a big role in Logia's abilities. Unless you want to say that it was something else that blocked her regeneration, and in this case you will need to provide evidences of this.

First of all, the burden of proof is not on my shoulder. Secondly, neither you or me know IF the emotional state affects logia's regeneration as you can make up a lot of assumptions such as Crocodile being angry = slower regen, Crocodile being happy = faster regen, as we have seen every logia user being completely fine regardless of their emotional state, Ceaser clown exist and he's constant in fear, going by that argument the marine doesn't need sea stone bullets or something that nullify logia's regen. And again, if it's not an explicit weakness added in here, then we should not use it as a legitimate argument

 

[CyborgSakumo]

I asked you a question, how exactly are you imagining this? Shigaraki running towards Crocodile and attempting to touch him? as i've explained before is the only way for him to be able to touch him, you are misunderstanding my point, allow me to rephrase that Shigraki doesn't have many close combat abilities, aside from touching him enemies via his decay plus he doesn't have many really close combat feats comparable to luffy, his fighting style reached to a point that's completely unpredictable and that even old foes have trouble outsmarting him.




Scans please? plus we are going by this wiki's rules as long as it's added as explicit weakness in every logia users' pages, it shouldn't be even considered be a thing in the first place

Shigaraki has rage power which lets him get faster the longer the fight goes on, far greater stamina than crocodile for being able to fight for a month with hardly any sleep prior to getting regeneration, air cannon to disperse crocodile sand attacks, and has statements from redestro backing up his close combat skill all of these are on his profile, pls make sure you understand his abilities before making assumptions.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Shigaraki has rage power which lets him get faster the longer the fight goes on, far greater stamina than crocodile for being able to fight for a month with hardly any sleep prior to getting regeneration, air cannon to disperse crocodile sand attacks, and has statements from redestro backing up his close combat skill all of these are on his profile, pls make sure you understand his abilities before making assumpt

Yes, Shigaraki has better stamina, that's indeed true. However, you made the claim that his air cannon can easily deal with all of Crocodile abilities such as:

• Ground Secco + Ground Death
• Desert Girasole (Desert Sunflower): Crocodile creates a loose sand blade from his right hand with Desert Spada. Like Desert Spada, He stabs it into the ground causing an area in front of him to collapse. However, a giant pit of quicksand will be formed instead, with the sand being taking away by underground rivers (which he can detect). Anything caught in the pit will be sucked in and buried alive. This attack can only be done in a desert terrain

Also, most of Crocodile's abilities also works on the ground, Shigaraki can lose balance, etc etc.


The problem with your argument here is that, you are basically saying Shigaraki goes close combat against crocodile who's far experienced than him and defeated luffy whose close combat skills are above shigaraki's, before you say it's not true we are talking about someone who survived the new world and returned safely to the grandline, and is also feared as one of the 7 Warlords. Regarding Luffy's skills, he fought relatively evenly with Zoro, who defeated skilled swordsman and dangerous pirates before he even joined his crew, was even notorious enough for buggy, krieg and Crocodile to know about him. At a young age, he defeated several talented swordsman (adults), kuina was said to be strongest in the dojo. Zoro aside, luffy defeated Kuro, he was stated to have killed 100 skilled assassins and even singlehandedly killed a ship filled with marine soldiers including Morgan in a span of 10 secs that made even his crew baffled. Do i also need to remind the Giant in little garden, or do you want me to continue?

You entire argument relies on the fact that shigaraki can engage in combat with crocodile and at the same time spamming air cannon to stop Town Sized sandstorms which he also spams in character in a speed equalized fight, does that make any sense to you?

 

[ThanatosX]

First of all, the burden of proof is not on my shoulder. Secondly, neither you or me know IF the emotional state affects logia's regeneration as you can make up a lot of assumptions such as Crocodile being angry = slower regen, Crocodile being happy = faster regen, as we have seen every logia user being completely fine regardless of their emotional state, Ceaser clown exist and he's constant in fear, going by that argument the marine doesn't need sea stone bullets or something that nullify logia's regen. And again, if it's not an explicit weakness added in here, then we should not use it as a legitimate argument

It's explicitly shown that Fear slow down the regeneration ability of Logia. Caesar Clown fear isn't causes by the Willpower of the opponent, but by the fact that he is a coward. That's different.

Again, it's clearly state that Monet wasn't able to regerate because of her fear, and that's my proof that Fear, or if you prefer induced fear, affect the Logia's ability.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

It's explicitly shown that Fear slow down the regeneration ability of Logia. Caesar Clown fear isn't causes by the Willpower of the opponent, but by the fact that he is a coward. That's different.

Again, it's clearly state that Monet wasn't able to regerate because of her fear, and that's my proof that Fear, or if you prefer induced fear, affect the Logia's ability.

Thanatos, as i've already said before if it's not added as an explicit weakness here, then it should not be treated as one, either make a CTR and add it as long as it's not considered as one should not be used as a legitimate argument, meaning it's irrelevant.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Yes, Shigaraki has better stamina, that's indeed true. However, you made the claim that his air cannon can easily deal with all of Crocodile abilities such as:

• Ground Secco + Ground Death
• Desert Girasole (Desert Sunflower): Crocodile creates a loose sand blade from his right hand with Desert Spada. Like Desert Spada, He stabs it into the ground causing an area in front of him to collapse. However, a giant pit of quicksand will be formed instead, with the sand being taking away by underground rivers (which he can detect). Anything caught in the pit will be sucked in and buried alive. This attack can only be done in a desert terrain

Also, most of Crocodile's abilities also works on the ground, Shigaraki can lose balance, etc etc.


The problem with your argument here is that, you are basically saying Shigaraki goes close combat against crocodile who's far experienced than him and defeated luffy whose close combat skills are above shigaraki's, before you say it's not true we are talking about someone who survived the new world and returned safely to the grandline, and is also feared as one of the 7 Warlords. Regarding Luffy's skills, he fought relatively evenly with Zoro, who defeated skilled swordsman and dangerous pirates before he even joined his crew, was even notorious enough for buggy, krieg and Crocodile to know about him. At a young age, he defeated several talented swordsman (adults), kuina was said to be strongest in the dojo. Zoro aside, luffy defeated Kuro, he was stated to have killed 100 skilled assassins and even singlehandedly killed a ship filled with marine soldiers including Morgan in a span of 10 secs that made even his crew baffled. Do i also need to remind the Giant in little garden, or do you want me to continue? your argument relies on the fact that shigaraki can engage in combat with crocodile and at the same time spamming air cannon to stop Town Sized sandstorms which he also spams in character in a speed equalized fight.

The sand abilities you mentioned above are all handled by Shigaraki being capable of true flight,

Shigaraki has gone in close combat against opponents more experienced than him several times(Redestro, endeavor) that's his default, he doesn't have to beat him in h2h he just has to touch him and luffy was better than crocodile at H2H combat . All crocodile did during the first fight was stand there and watch and overwhelm him with sand powers, in the second fight he was overwhelmed in close combat and only won because of his dehydration ability which isn't an issue here as shigaraki can instantly regenerate it and luffy won the third fight. Crocodile doesn't have many h2h combat feats so it's arguable that he's even more skilled than shigaraki, and even he is it's unlikely he can dodge away from shigaraki's touching him forever when shigaraki can amp his speed with air canon and has rage power to amp himself as well, and worst case scenario shigaraki can swap with all for one to take control of him who's over a hundred years old and has fought against characters like all might so he'd be more experienced.

Actually looking at his profile Crocodile is only stated to be skilled at H2H while shigaraki is expert and luffy is master meaning at the point it goes
Luffy > Shigaraki > Crocodile in terms of H2H , meaning shigaraki is straight-up superior.

Thanatos, as i've already said before if it's not added as an explicit weakness here, then it should not be treated as one, either make a CTR and add it as long as it's not considered as one should not be used as a legitimate argument, meaning it's irrelevant.

Call an Admin on this one manga facts are usually greater than wiki which can be wrong for several reasons.
@Damage3245

 

[ThanatosX]

Thanatos, as i've already said before if it's not added as an explicit weakness here, then it should not be treated as one, either make a CTR and add it as long as it's not considered as one should not be used as a legitimate argument, meaning it's irrelevant.

What is written in the wiki doesn't matter in case there irrefutable evidences like in this case. As CyborgSakumo said, manga facts are more important than what is written in the profile.

You can ignore the evidence if you want, but I'll take the Zoro - Monet fight in consideration when deciding who to vote for.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

The sand abilities you mentioned above are all handled by Shigaraki being capable of true flight,

Shigaraki has gone in close combat against opponents more experienced than him several times(Redestro, endeavor) that's his default, he doesn't have to beat him in h2h he just has to touch him and luffy was better than crocodile at H2H combat all crocodile did during the first fight was stand there and watch, in the second fight he was overwhelmed in close combat and only won because of his dehydration ability which isn't an issue here as shigaraki can instantly regenerate it and luffy won the third fight. Crocodile doesn't have many h2h combat feats so it's arguable that he's even more skilled than shigaraki, and even he is it's unlikely he can dodge away from shigaraki's touching him forever when shigaraki can amp his speed and has rage power, and worst case scenario shigaraki can swap with all for one to take control of him who's over a hundred years old and has fought against characters like all might.

How long are we gonna to drag this out any longer? >Fear affects Logia's regen isn't counted as long as it's not added, so let's refrain from discussing this any longer.

You didn't elaborated on how skilled endeavor and redestro are, but is that even remotely comparable to the giants from Little Garden who've fought other skilled and talented giants who are considered as strong warriors and the giants in one piece are older than 80+ years, since their race made them able to live longer and as warriors all they do is fighting,. Alabasta Luffy theoretically can beat them, since Little garden luffy is far inferior to Alabasta luffy in terms of combat skills, speed and power.

I was mostly referring to his third fight as we've seen that Crocodile managed to keep up with Luffy, it's an astonishing feat considering luffy's unpredictable fighting style and that Crocodile usually prefers to spam his sand abilities. So Luffy = / = Shigaraki again, just because luffy defeated Crocodile which most people agree was due to protagonist luck doesn't necessarily mean it will happen here.

You know, even if he can flight that contradicts your h2h argument, because he can't hurt crocodile by spamming his air cannon, his search would tell him to engage in close combat. Crocodile can spam town-sized sandstorms in a span of 2 seconds. Also speed is equalized, so he isn't going faster.

"and worst case scenario shigaraki can swap with all for one to take control of him"..................... doesn't that literally defeat the purpose of Shigaraki vs crocodile, that's basically saying in a worst case scenario part 1 naruto can swap with Kurama, just for the sake of argument.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

What is written in the wiki doesn't matter in case there irrefutable evidences like in this case. As CyborgSakumo said, manga facts are more important than what is written in the profile.

You can ignore the evidence if you want, but I'll take the Zoro - Monet fight in consideration when deciding who to vote for.

It does matter because we are explicitly using the character pages/profiles to debate here, therefore following the rules here . You can't simply ignore the rules just because you don't agree with it, for example a character could destroy a island as long as his feat isn't calculated it doesn't count, another example, a statement can be simply disregarded for lacking evidence and proof such as your monet argument, until you make a CTR and make it an OFFICIAL weakness you can use it as a legitimate argument.

Your count won't be counted,

 

[Kidkinsey]

^I'd say that's only valid if they have full control/allow the person to take them over like Yugi/Yami yugi or war arc naruto when him and kurama became cool

While I think the fear point is VERY valid if we aren't allowed to Use weaknesses if it isn't on the profile then

 

[CyborgSakumo]

How long are we gonna to drag this out any longer? >Fear affects Logia's regen isn't counted as long as it's not added, so let's refrain from discussing this any longer.

You didn't elaborated on how skilled endeavor and redestro are, but is that even remotely comparable to the giants from Little Garden who've fought other skilled and talented giants who are considered as strong warriors and the giants in one piece are older than 80+ years, since their race made them able to live longer and as warriors all they do is fighting,. Alabasta Luffy theoretically can beat them, since Little garden luffy is far inferior to Alabasta luffy in terms of combat skills, speed and power.

I was mostly referring to his third fight as we've seen that Crocodile managed to keep up with Luffy, it's an astonishing feat considering luffy's unpredictable fighting style and that Crocodile usually prefers to spam his sand abilities. So Luffy = / = Shigaraki again, just because luffy defeated Crocodile which most people agree was due to protagonist luck doesn't necessarily mean it will happen here.

You know, even if he can flight that contradicts your h2h argument, because he can't hurt crocodile by spamming his air cannon, his search would tell him to engage in close combat. Crocodile can spam town-sized sandstorms in a span of 2 seconds. Also speed is equalized, so he isn't going faster.

"and worst case scenario shigaraki can swap with all for one to take control of him"..................... doesn't that literally defeat the purpose of Shigaraki vs crocodile, that's basically saying in a worst case scenario part 1 naruto can swap with Kurama, just for the sake of argument.

It's one of his powers , mulitple selves check the wiki on this. crocodile didn't manage to keep up with luffy on the third fight he was getting thrashed in H2H and was only able to keep up by staying out of H2H range.

Multiple Selves Possible Uses

• The division of roles - Each self can be strong in some ways and is only activated when there is a need for its services.
• Collective Intelligence - One head is good, two is better, and if one head has a million consciousness at once, with a sufficient level of organization, they can replace a strategic headquarters or scientific institute.
• Change in body - Switching between selves may also change the body, getting different (and likely necessary) skills and abilities.

AFO will take over shigaraki's body if he's in serious danger , it's a part of the power sorry.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

^I'd say that's only valid if they have full control/allow the person to take them over like Yugi/Yami yugi or war arc naruto when him and kurama became cool

While I think the fear point is VERY valid if we aren't allowed to Use weaknesses if it isn't on the profile then

Seriously, this is getting out of hand, so in other words only Shigaraki is allowed to swap with another character? Is that even allowed. Sorry, but i'm confused???

 

[ThanatosX]

Even if we ignore the fact that the Logia are heavily affected by Fear Manipulation (something that I think is really dumb to ignore, but whatever) what exactly is Crocodile going to do? Because Fear Manipulation will still affect him, paralizying him, so Shigaraki will have all the time to kill him using the weakness that he will find with Search and easily win.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

It does matter because we are explicitly using the character pages/profiles to debate here, therefore following the rules here . You can't simply ignore the rules just because you don't agree with it, for example a character could destroy a island as long as his feat isn't calculated it doesn't count, another example, a statement can be simply disregarded for lacking evidence and proof such as your monet argument, until you make a CTR and make it an OFFICIAL weakness you can use it as a legitimate argument.

Your count won't be counted,

Yes his count will be counted because manga facts > wiki, I'm the counter.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Seriously, this is getting out of hand, so in other words only Shigaraki is allowed to swap with another character? Is that even allowed. Sorry, but i'm confused???

Multiple Selves

Multiple Selves is the ability which allows to have several different entities existing within one being. They can either be minds, souls, living organisms or even combinations of these types. This ability has a number of advantages and a number of shortcomings. Type 1 (Multiple Minds)...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Kidkinsey]

Seriously, this is getting out of hand, so in other words only Shigaraki is allowed to swap with another character? Is that even allowed. Sorry, but i'm confused???

I'm not up to date with the mha manga but If he has full control over the ability and can switch whenever he wants I don't see why not
Sensui from YYH has 7 personalities and in his Vsbattles he isn't restricted to one

 

[Kingofwolves999]

What is happening right now

 

[RazumaHiroki]

It's one of his powers , mulitple selves check the wiki on this. crocodile didn't manage to keep up with luffy on the third fight he was getting thrashed in H2H and was only able to keep up by staying out of H2HMultiple Selves Possible Uses

• The division of roles - Each self can be strong in some ways and is only activated when there is a need for its services.
• Collective Intelligence - One head is good, two is better, and if one head has a million consciousness at once, with a sufficient level of organization, they can replace a strategic headquarters or scientific institute.
• Change in body - Switching between selves may also change the body, getting different (and likely necessary) skills and abilities.

AFO will take over shigaraki's body if he's in serious danger , it's a part of the power sorry.

Plenty of characters have multipe selves such as Naruto and Yugi too, shigaraki is not an exception. Also, no! he kept up with luffy throughout the fight until luffy destroyed his poison hook.

Yes his count will be counted because manga facts > wiki, I'm the counter.

You are not the one who decided that just because you made the thread doesn't automatically mean you can decide what's canon or not, even you have to follow this rule. Until a CTR is made, this is not counted.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

What is happening right now

To summarize the whole debate, it's an absolute chaos he does whatever want.

so, not really in the mood to continue this debate, gonna sleep.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Plenty of characters have multipe selves such as Naruto and Yugi too, shigaraki is not an exception. Also, no! he kept up with luffy throughout the fight until luffy destroyed his poison hook.

You are not the one who decided that just because you made the thread doesn't automatically mean you can decide what's canon or not, even you have to follow this rule. Until a CTR is made, this is not counted.

Yes and those characters can use their alternate personalities it's part of their power. I just checked no he wasn't keeping up he was losing.

Find me where it says wiki > manga facts I'll wait.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

What is happening right now

There are three debates going on

Is shigaraki skilled enough to touch Crocodile?

Is fear manip a valid way of keeping logias from forming shown in the monet fight?

Is AFO allowed to take over shigaraki?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That wasn't an exaggeration, it's what happened(). He probably couldn't decay a sand tornado but he could disperse it with air cannon, he doesn't have poison resistance(not sure how regen works against it though), but crocodile doesn't have poison in this key(doesn't have poison hook hand in this time and it's stated on his profile) so it's irrelevant.

That ain’t doing a thing to Monet… she literally have no problems dying… and she still got afraid of Zoro’s fear manipulation..,

 

[CyborgSakumo]

That ain’t doing a thing to Monet… she literally have no problems dying… and she still got afraid of Zoro’s fear manipulation..,

She was afraid of dying it was directly stated here.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Yes and those characters can use their alternate personalities it's part of their power. I just checked no he wasn't keeping up he was losing.

Find me where it says wiki > manga facts I'll wait.

Sigh..... because the entire website is made up with manga facts, game feats and other facts. This wiki is not accepting all facts, hence why CTR is a thing you know, besides not even in other wikis is that stated that Logia have such a weakness, you both are simply using one "Manga fact" that is not even added in any Logia user's profile page not accepted here nor in other Wikis, yet you have audacity to say "hey, it's not stated in Crocodile's character profile so it doesn't count".


You only accept things that's in Shigaraki's favor, before you say no, allow me to remind you that you are currently using Monet as a legitimate argument.

Anyways, i'm done here.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Also only counting Shigraki's votes, seems extremely biased to me, just saying

 

[ThanatosX]

Sigh..... because the entire website is made up with manga facts, game feats and other facts. This wiki is not accepting all facts, hence why CTR is a thing you know, besides not even in other wikis is that stated that Logia have such a weakness, you both are simply using one "Manga fact" that is not even added in any Logia user's profile page not accepted here nor in other Wikis, yet you have audacity to say "hey, it's not stated in Crocodile's character profile so it doesn't count".


You only accept things that's in Shigaraki's favor, before you say no, allow me to remind you that you are currently using Monet as a legitimate argument.

Anyways, i'm done here.

I already made an argument that doesn't take into consideration that. Here is the comment:

Even if we ignore the fact that the Logia are heavily affected by Fear Manipulation (something that I think is really dumb to ignore, but whatever) what exactly is Crocodile going to do? Because Fear Manipulation will still affect him, paralizying him, so Shigaraki will have all the time to kill him using the weakness that he will find with Search and easily win.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Sigh..... because the entire website is made up with manga facts, game feats and other facts. This wiki is not accepting all facts, hence why CTR is a thing you know, besides not even in other wikis is that stated that Logia have such a weakness, you both are simply using one "Manga fact" that is not even added in any Logia user's profile page not accepted here nor in other Wikis, yet you have audacity to say "hey, it's not stated in Crocodile's character profile so it doesn't count".


You only accept things that's in Shigaraki's favor, before you say no, allow me to remind you that you are currently using Monet as a legitimate argument.

Anyways, i'm done here.

The reason I haven't counted your specific vote is because you've failed to give a valid wincon we've already discussed dehydration won't even slow him down, he can fly and use air manipulation against his sand attacks.

I need to have a valid wincon to accept your vote otherwise I can't accept it.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Sigh..... because the entire website is made up with manga facts, game feats and other facts. This wiki is not accepting all facts, hence why CTR is a thing you know, besides not even in other wikis is that stated that Logia have such a weakness, you both are simply using one "Manga fact" that is not even added in any Logia user's profile page not accepted here nor in other Wikis, yet you have audacity to say "hey, it's not stated in Crocodile's character profile so it doesn't count".


You only accept things that's in Shigaraki's favor, before you say no, allow me to remind you that you are currently using Monet as a legitimate argument.

Anyways, i'm done here.

Oh yeah since you want things on the wiki here you go under devil fruit weaknesses https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Devil_Fruits#Weaknesses

If a Logia is rendered in a fear or rage-induced state, they wont be capable of controlling their body properly and may seem like they are merely flailing about.

Do you have anything else to say @RazumaHiroki, as by your rules we go by the wiki, or are we done here?

 

[ThanatosX]

Oh yeah since you want things on the wiki here you go under devil fruit weaknesses https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Devil_Fruits#Weaknesses

If a Logia is rendered in a fear or rage-induced state, they wont be capable of controlling their body properly and may seem like they are merely flailing about.

Do you have anything else to say @RazumaHiroki, as by your rules we go by the wiki, or are we done here?

Ok, with this I confirm my vote for Shigaraki, if this isn't a stomp considering that Crocodile seems to not have proper wincons.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

So right now Here are the wincon's each character

Shigaraki:

Getting in close combat and using blood hand(search tells him about weaknesses) to touch him(Likely)

Fear Manip Paralyzes and shigaraki touches him(Possible)

Outlasting Crocodile via far greater Stamina and regen(Likely)

Having AFO take over and use his greater experience to win the fight(situational)

Crocodile:

Staying out of range and continually dehydrating Shigaraki until he dies(unlikely by possibly)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Oh yeah since you want things on the wiki here you go under devil fruit weaknesses https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Devil_Fruits#Weaknesses

If a Logia is rendered in a fear or rage-induced state, they wont be capable of controlling their body properly and may seem like they are merely flailing about.

Do you have anything else to say @RazumaHiroki, as by your rules we go by the wiki, or are we done here?

shigaraki ain't scaring Crocodile with illusions of death... even to the point of not controlling his powers

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So right now Here are the wincon's each character

Shigaraki:

Getting in close combat and using blood hand(search tells him about weaknesses) to touch him(Likely)

Fear Manip Paralyzes and shigaraki touches him(Possible)

Outlasting Crocodile via far greater Stamina and regen(Likely)

Having AFO take over and use his greater experience to win the fight(situational)

Crocodile:

Staying out of range and continually dehydrating Shigaraki until he dies(unlikely by possibly)

Your being very biased right now... This is the wincons you think are valid

 

[ThanatosX]

shigaraki ain't scaring Crocodile with illusions of death...

The illusions doesn't cause fear, it's the fear that causes the illusions. And Crocodile doesn't resists Fear Manipulation which, as proven, is a big weakness for the Logias.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Sure is a lot of backhanded talking and passive aggressiveness going on here.

Anyway, for my two cents, I do think Shigaraki wins, but let’s clear up some of these misconceptions.

1) Shigaraki is absolutely stopped by the elemental intangibility, but there is no reasoning he can’t decay sand, he just has to touch it, which is hard. So if he makes Crocodile solid, he should be ok to decay him, provided Crocodile actually dies from it since he can probably cut away the body part and regen.

2) Crocodile can get past the regen, as it wears down with repeated damage due to Shigaraki not being complete yet. So if he manages to drain him really badly a few times, he can kill him. He also isn’t really bothered by Air Cannon, since he’s sand, so he has some things going for him.

3) Fear manipulation seems really bad for Crocodile if he doesn’t resist it, because Shigaraki will absolutely use it to paralyze and hinder his abilities. His Fear Manipulation also affects those that aren’t afraid of death, as mind controlled minions that weren’t afraid of death stopped in fear from him looking at them. So I would recommend clearing up any solutions to that on Crocodiles side.

4) Why has no one discussed the possibility of Shigaraki just stealing Crocodiles powers? If Devil Fruits are even kinda genetic, Shigaraki can just open his palm and suck out the Sand Fruit and now Crocodile is powerless. That seems to be a worse problem than even the fear manipulation.

Also, Cyber, stop acting like you have absolute power just because you made the thread. Debate with respect to everyone, including the people that disagree. Denying what they are claiming to be wincons because you personally don’t agree is faulty logic. You’re not exactly doing yourself a service when you claim you’re the only one that has facts.

Either way, Shiggy FRA until more reasons for Crocodile are given. His wincons are more solid than Crocodiles.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

is a big weakness for the Logias.

No it's not... Being in fear makes you not control your powers the same as you used to... Same with people who don't have logia powers. Crocodile being afraid to the point of not being able to use his power is complete wank.