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Tokyo Revengers: Discussion Rule

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M3X_2.0 said:
They do this because we have no guidelines to follow when creating CRTs. Threads like the ones Dread linked in the OP are like that because no other staff gives a shot to it, they don’t help these users.

There was a Jujutsu Kaisen AP Thread that went exactly like most TR threads, and when I talked to them, helped them to flesh out their ideas, the thread was closed days after.

I brought this up on the staff PM a while back and no one besides you and Agnaa gave their opinions. It’s our fault that threads end up like this.

We should help them, create guidelines, not strict rules that makes no sense and doesn’t help at all.
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I agree about that I would greatly appreciate if our staff in general would try to be more patient, helpful, and give instructions to new members, but the problem here was not just forum threads, it was spamming new calculation blogs with recurrently dishonest information, systematic pinging of calc group members to them many times after the calculations had been rejected, considerable hostility, unreasonability, and toxicity, and repeated usage of sockpuppets after accounts had been banned. Several of the TR supporters would likely have benefitted from more helpful instructions, but others were just being dishonest and toxic.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Doesn’t matter. I’m suggesting different actions instead of creating a rule.
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It matters, since you are suggesting a different action on a different topic that I am not trying to push by any means.
 
Dalesean027 said:
And M3X there's quite a few of these that aren't even valid by site standards and they still moved forward with them anyways despite what staff has said.
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To be fair, most of our staff don’t know about this rule because we haven’t announced it yet as Agnaa suggested some time ago. We probably should do it so they know how to deal with future TR threads.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
That’s the point man, will we invalidate all the feats because the supporters can’t behave properly?

Give these guys the help they need, from thread moderators and calc group members and see how the threads will go smoothly.

Instead of helping these guys, we’re telling them their verse should get more feats first, something that may or may not happen. They have some feats to scale the characters, guide them so the thread won’t get out of control and the changes can be applied.
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From what I can tell given I have seen most conversations even feats that aren't banned are ambiguous. For example for a gun feat that was debated in the new thread the proposition is to literally wait for the anime because else whether the gun was fired before or after a character moved is up to how you read the manga panels which isn't exactly concrete.

Also there are supporters such as Zefra who made the previous staff thread which helped the verse. Maybe that thread can be opened in case of any new feats and some trustworthy supporters of the verse could give their input with cgm or other staff so as not to create crt threads which are much open to involvement and thus prone to being flooded with messages. Of course that's not ideal for any verse, for their feats to be talked only via representatives, but for this specific verse at this point it might be the sole solution.
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
From what I can tell given I have seen most conversations even feats that aren't banned are ambiguous. For example for a gun feat that was debated in the new thread the proposition is to literally wait for the anime because else whether the gun was fired before or after a character moved is up to how you read the manga panels which isn't exactly concrete.

Also there are supporters such as Zefra who made the previous staff thread which helped the verse. Maybe that thread can be opened in case of any new feats and some trustworthy supporters of the verse could give their input with cgm or other staff so as not to create crt threads which are much open to involvement and thus prone to being flooded with messages. Of course that's not ideal for any verse, for their feats to be talked only via representatives, but for this specific verse at this point it might be the sole solution.
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I think this is the most egregious case because not even a full 10 minutes after Ant closed this thread was another made to upgrade the verse past the results of the staff thread, and it went on for several pages as well. There are just as many who aren't like Zefra and will go to any lengths to get these characters to said ratings
 
Dalesean027 said:
I think this is the most egregious case because not even a full 10 minutes after Ant closed this thread was another made to upgrade the verse past the results of the staff thread, and it went on for several pages as well. There are just as many who aren't like Zefra and will go to any lengths to get these characters to said ratings
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That's why I propose a sterilized staff thread with the sole representative of the verse who actually tries to scale the verse consistently where it belongs and all the profiles locked to avoid vandalism and such. Maybe crts can be used for abilities but stats should not be left in a crt if the current behaviour is kept going forward.
 
ImmortalDread said:
This rule does not state that there should not be discussions about it.


I am specifically trying to set a discussion rule to not have those discussions to begin with.
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The rule m3x is talking about is him literally saying the calcs violate the rules of the wiki, it has nothing to do with tokyo revengers specifically, its about on standards on these feats which tokyo revemgers breaks in several calcs
 
Dalesean027 said:
The rule m3x is talking about is him literally saying the calcs violate the rules of the wiki, it has nothing to do with tokyo revengers specifically, its about on standards on these feats which tokyo revemgers breaks in several calcs
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And this is undoubtedly what I am trying to establish – the irrelevancy of this.

This is nowhere what I am trying to argue.

This rule prevents the validity of the calculation, but it does not prevent having countless discussions about this.
 
The rule prevent the validity of the calculation, the calculation being made and therefore discussions about it.

If you can’t make it, can’t get it accepted, then you can’t discuss it. Quite simple honestly.
 
ImmortalDread said:
This rule prevents the validity of the calculation, but it does not prevent having countless discussions about this.
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Well yeah we've already established that, I've already said myself that despite this rule and them knowing of it they still push for several of the same feats anyways and still also partake in constant hidden calc stacking, they simply don't care for our rules if im being honest
 
Antvasima said:
Hmm. Should we briefly mention and link to it in one of our regular rule pages as well, given that it is easy for our members to not notice it otherwise?
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I think a few of our calculations rules should have their place on the regular rule page to be honest. Some of them are as important as this one.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Is this your own interpretation? Because the rule clearly doesn't state this.
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He's thinking ahead, if said calculation violation and the feat its based on itself our rules and as such has been rejected from being a valid feat then obviously you aren't gonna be discussing that same feat else where or rather you shouldn't use said feat in discussions because it goes against our rules.

So no its not officially stated discussion isn't allowed He's just thinking ahead
 
Yeah it’s just kinda obvious. You’re not allowed to even make it, let alone discuss it.

You can just add the discussion part anyway.
 
With that said though back on topic as this doesn't even apply to Tokyo Revengers considering a whole thread was made about said feats in regards to tokyo revengers that went on for about 5 pages as well and went onto making the staff discussion thread that was immediately met with an upgrade thread within an hour of its conclusion and application.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
I think a few of our calculations rules should have their place on the regular rule page to be honest. Some of them are as important as this one.
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Well, I am very open for well-considered suggestions in that regard then, but we consistently need to remember to update both featured instances of the same rule text whenever we change it.
 
They should acknowledge that these feats shouldn’t be used and are not allowed anymore. Let’s reinforce the rule this time.
 
Dalesean027 said:
With that said though back on topic as this doesn't even apply to Tokyo Revengers considering a whole thread was made about said feats in regards to tokyo revengers that went on for about 5 pages as well and went onto making the staff discussion thread that was immediately met with an upgrade thread within an hour of its conclusion and application.
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That was borderline comedic. Though it further makes me believe just a staff discussion for anything regarding the verse is most ideal as the concrete values used now are based upon it.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Alright.

This is far better suggestion than deletion, I suppose.
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That discussion we had didn't really mean anything because in regards to the actual main discussion in regards to TR this rule is already known and even outside of that they still actively and widely take part in hidden calc stacking which has been addressed in at least 2 or 3 big crts for the verse and still hasn't changed and was present in the literal last thread this discussion rule was suggested in
 
I'd like to say lets not forget what exactly we've dealt with in regards to this verse in the past like they've gone far. Recall when they didn't get their way and invaded the wall of fandom staff even outside of our wiki itself to say we're plagued with corruption and all kinds of things cause staff rejected their upgrades or the dozens of blogs and crts where CGMs have been harrassed and attacked to no end when they aren't met with results they like.

Due to the Vapourr, Hollowvanity, and Morris stuff we already know they commune in a discord sever off site and have been in the past instructed on or flatout spoken for perma banned people on the wiki and uploaded calcs and arguments for them. Not even going on about the constant sock creation with this verse.


The problems go beyond just calcs Dread so again M3X's suggestion isn't just one you can write off just like that as I said I've also.made said suggestion in the past
 
My apologies, I did not see your post since I posted mine simultaneously with yours

Dalesean027 said:
none of those support the notion that these characters are bullet timers so I'd say unless in the future the anime brings new evidence that supports the characters being at said speeds then we should keep the cap at supersonic.
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The rule itself states this, and I think it aligns with what you are suggesting.
Do not create threads attempting to upgrade Tokyo Revengers characters to speeds of higher than supersonic. It has been discussed here, here, here, here, here, here and many more with over 30 pages of back and forth discussion. This prohibition stems from the extraordinary nature of these claims, and the CGMs have intervened multiple times to reject and debunk such feats. Alone, these discussions have led to increased harassment, toxicity, and drama, to the point where the RvR thread is being spammed with these discussions. Unless new evidence emerges indicating otherwise, refrain from trying to upgrade the verse based on these scenes.
  • Avoid creating calculation blogs on these feats without substantial evidence from an official source. It is strongly preferred that discussions be grounded in verified information. Without concrete support from authoritative sources, these calculations are likely to be rejected.
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Although, it needs some rewording from your side. I removed the second part as it is already covered by the rule that has newly stated.
 
DMUA said:
I'd also mention how feats that have already happened up to the point of writing shouldn't be calculated unless they haven't been calculated prior, just to be secure
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That may be a good idea. At least if calculations for those feats have already been accepted to be used by our calc group members.
 
I am having some issues with the draft, and requires some assistance.
Do not create threads attempting to upgrade Tokyo Revengers characters to a higher level than supersonic. It has been discussed here, here, here, here, here, here and many more with over 30 pages of back and forth discussion. This prohibition stems from the extraordinary nature of these claims, and the CGMs have intervened multiple times to reject and debunk such feats. Alone, these discussions have led to increased harassment, toxicity, and drama, to the point where the RvR thread is being spammed with these discussions. Unless new evidence emerges indicating otherwise, refrain from trying to upgrade the verse based on these scenes.
Click to expand...
Do not create threads attempting to upgrade Tokyo Revengers characters to a higher level than supersonic. It has been discussed here, here, here, here, here, here and many more with over 30 pages of back and forth discussion.
Click to expand...
This is fine
This prohibition stems from the extraordinary nature of these claims, and the CGMs have intervened multiple times to reject and debunk such feats.
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May we get a brief description of the names of the feats? I think those are fine to be added:
Or which ones are, exactly, are we referring? A name of the feat is sufficient.
Alone, these discussions have led to increased harassment, toxicity, and drama, to the point where the RvR thread is being spammed with these discussions.
Click to expand...
This is fine
Unless new evidence emerges indicating otherwise, refrain from trying to upgrade the verse based on these scenes.
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This is completely fine. Unless an author provides new information to said feat, the author of calculation blog must include it.
Although, if I may ask, should we also prohibit calculation blogs as well unless any new adequate evidence is presented?

This can be added in the discussion rules as well as in the verse page.

Any further input is appreciated.
 
I would also appreciate if others here help Dread with this. 🙏
 
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