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Toaru Majutsu no Index General Discussion Thread

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LazyHunter said:
No, the maximum Durability a character in Toaru can have without esper power/magic/science involved is Peak Human, since it's made pretty clear humans in Toaru can be easily harmed and killed with normal guns and knives. Otherwise we would have upgraded Touma's normal Durability ages ago, since it'd have a lot more than one single incident like this supporting it.
Click to expand...
good point,

btw, i dont think the chapter will give any more exposition than her injuries which we already know :(
 
Btw. since Omnipresence is generally not above immeasureable anymore, should we note down Immeasrueable on Aleisters profile as well, for the same reasons as for the rest?
 
We should list the immeasurable speed, but would we still note the limited omnipresence under speed? or should it just go under powers and abilities
 
I made the edit and added two abilities. Hope everybody agrees to them.

That aside, should we flip Aleisters profile pic by 180┬░ ? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
@DontTalk

Really tempted to say yes.

Interesting trivia, what Aleister did (Existing in two places at the same time) is known as bilocatio or multilocation, and it's something acquaintances of the real Aleister Crowley said he had.
 
@LazyHunter: Btw. I noticed that you are adding quotes to pages.

Any suggestions for the locked ones? I would add them then.
 
Quotes for Aleister and the Magic Gods then? Othinus has a few:

"Success and failure, heads and tails… None of it matters to me anymore. After coming this far, do you really think you have any chance of fighting back? The two of you were only able to crawl through the dirt because you could not leave the territory of fragile children of man. Kneel before me as you witness history. This is 100% success!!" - Othinus to Fiamma and Ollerus

"It no longer matters how you perceive the situation. Who it was that disappeared is a trivial matter. The problem that lies before you is that only the two of us are here. And you seem confused as to the scale we are talking about. Why are you talking about this on the tiny scale of Tokyo Bay? What I destroyed is not contained to just the small planet known as Earth." - Othinus to Touma

"Me? Fight you? It may be hard to believe, but I am a god. Do you really think the great Othinus would bother to fight a puny human? A Magic God does not need to do anything directly to crush a single kid. Have you forgotten? A Magic God is one who can manipulate anything in the world using magic. Everything is under my control. Any annoying bit of work can be left to my pawns." - Othinus to Touma

Or you can play it safe and use her most famous line:

"These small fights are such a pain. I think I'll just end the world." - Othinus

I'm not sure for the other ones, they don't have that many. Maybe these ones will do:

"The stars can be plucked from the sky so easily, so why are you so desperate to reach them? It's not even remotely logical, but humans are creatures filled with that sort of passion, aren't they? That movement of your hearts is the one thing I'm honestly jealous of."- Nephthys

"I am Nephthys. I am a goddess who objects to the legends of death that are treated as necessary sacrifices in our mythology. So let us weep, no matter how pitiful it might be. Let us accuse all that claims perfection yet could not reject death." - Nephthys

"I will use anything I can. That includes you. You may find it amusing that there are slight errors in my plan, but let me tell you something. ...There is no guarantee that your absolute superiority will last forever." - Aleister Crowley to Aiwass

"I see. So I did not need the position of a Buddha to save the people. This thought just never occurred to me. Then I will take on that role. I will be the pathetic, sinful priest who could not abandon his desires and died without reaching perfection. I would not be given a place or a role as a Buddha, so I will become one of the immensely powerful wanderers. I will become exactly what you wanted me to be. I will become a simple High Priest, a mere wandering Buddha"

I can't think of a quote for Niang-Niang.

I wonder, do you think there is a point to adding High Priest, Nephthys and Nian-Niang's non- Magic God/Reality warping magic to their pages? Probably not, because at their pre-nerfing levels their other magic would be irrelevant. I remember adding Dirt Manipulation to High Priest's power list before it was locked, but that's it.
 
I agree that their abilities are not notable for their pre-nerfing forms. It would seem for readers like a strange focus on a specific aspect of their general powers and confuse more than help, in my opinion.
 
Personally I prefer this quote for Aleister:

"Tremble in fear, true Gremlin. There is great meaning in your doubt turning to impatience and then to fear. Listen, I no longer view you as a threat. You may have forgotten after living for so very long, but it is high time you gradually remembered what death feels like."
 
Should we give gabriel "thousands of light years" range with astro in hand? given that it can control the stars in the nightsky it should be about that high, I think.
 
I'm kind of curious about something. As we know, teleportation by Espers works by removing the object from the three dimensions, finding it in the 11th dimension and then bringing it back. In essence, teleporters who can actively move themselves (like Kuroko) seem to be able to "enter" the 11th dimension.

So my question is: doesn't this mean the Magic Gods power must be able to at least reach up to the 11th dimension, as I can not imagine Kamachi making running away via teleportation a viable counter to them? Then again, 11th dimension may be a reference to basic string theory, which has 10 dimensions, so I am unsure how we could even treat that.
 
^ If i remember correctly though, Kuroko only said to only do calculation that involved the 11th dimension to teleport.
 
To aru has 11 dimensions, but there is no proof that any of the magic gods can actually influence higher dimensional space in any way.
 
We know that Toaru's world has 11 dimensions, and that some things like esper teleporters and Curtana interact with higher dimensions, but like DontTalk said, no magic god made any allusion to being able to influence them.

@DontTalk

I agree with putting that as Gabriel's range. Also about Gabriel's page, shouldn't Gabriel's Durability on its Angel Fall key be Mountain level like its AP? And when did Gabriel show intangibility?
 
I wondered about intangibility as well. I assumed that is is there for when gabriels body is destroyed / only energy remains, that in that state he is intangible.

I think it should be mountain level, yes.
 
That wouldn't be a kind of intangibility it can use willingly to, for example, avoid an attack. Also, I think it was there since before I pointed out how Gabriel came back after collapsing into pure energy. It may be confusing to people who don't know about the series, so I vote for removing it, as the "regenerating from energy" part is already listed as his Regenerationn feat.

I'll put it as Mountain level then.
 
Another thing I notice with Gabriel

it's last form is "likely Country level, likely higher". Makes no sense. Perhaps it was supposed to be at least country likely higher?
 
Well, the intangibility can likely be removed, yes.

I would simply put it as "At least Country level". It basically says the same as at least... likely higher, but more concise.
 
Well, I am not talking about direct statements but implications.

Wouldn't it strike you strange if a mere level four could escape a magic god just by teleporting?
 
That is not really an argument that holds.

Also if a teleporter would teleport in another dimension they would die, since nothing exists there.

The important point is that there isn't sufficient proof that the magic gods can do something like that, just because other characters can influence then to a small degree.
 
Two things about reaction speed:

1) Should Misakas be upgraded based on her fight with Brunhild? Possibly with the notion of the techniques that she used.

2) Mugino redirected this lightning here, I can likely conclude a reaction time from that (similar as for othinus). Do you think that is reasonable? (if it is I would calc it sometime later)
 
1) Probably. She couldn't follow Brunhild with her eyesight, but she still managed to react to her movements by using her iron sand (her radar also likely plays a part in her reactions). Plus, she was capable of magnetizing her claymore and attack her a few times. Would the same reasoning apply to Thor for fighting Silvia?

2) She and Mikoto were interfering with each other's power during their fight and seemed pretty evenly matched, so it seems reasonable.
 
On a side note: At least until I (and everyone else that plans to read this thread) finished reading NT 15 it would be nice if all spoilery topics go into collapsed blocks of text ^^
 
I won't post anything related to NT15's content in this thread until the volume is completely translated and we all have finished reading it. I'll probably just post a message when I'm done reading it.
 
Just looking at Touma's profile, should we still have The negation of gungnir as is likely a outlier? I believe we came to a conclusion that imagine breaker works horribly for continous type attacks, like Accelerators wings, Saint georges Sanctuary, etc etc.

EDIT: Oh, and i'm assuming we missed removing the MHS+ off of Touma's profile, unless he has some feat i'm not aware of.
 
Touma defends quite casusally against all kinds of misakas lightning strikes, hence the ranking for the precognition.


About the universe level: Consider that accels black wings could for example not be negated, due to their power. There seems to be a very large gap between showings of when IB stops reliably negating stuff.
 
^ Isn't he just instinctually feel the AIM field that ESPer emit to the target and dodge accordingly? That's what explained in the novel.
 
Ehh, in the novel it says he has a fighter's instinct. I don't think it says he can detetc AIM fields
 
Andykhang said:
^ Isn't he just instinctually feel the AIM field that ESPer emit to the target and dodge accordingly? That's what explained in the novel.
Click to expand...
AIM is a bit of an exaggeration, but his precognition works by picking up minor details of the attacks that give away where they will hit.
 
I made Kuroyoru Umidori's page. I left her AP with her extra arms as Large Building level for deflecting the Railgun FIVE Over shots with hundreds of arms. It's likely higher, but probably adding all the nitrogen spears' power for her AP wouldn't fly, and there's no other feat for the extra arms except blowing Kinuhata hundreds of meters away when using several thousand arms.

Speaking of Kinuhata. LN mentions that despite Umidori being the one of the two focused in offense, her spears are poorly matched with Saiai's Offense Armor since they are both using nitrogen, and thus they aren't as effective when used on her. Still, maybe we should put Saiai as Building level for deflecting the spears with her fists and survivng that last attack with minimal injuries: Even though she had the Offense Armor ability, she couldn't negate the damage completely. It was as if her abdomen had been hit a few times, and the impacts that had reached her vertebrae caused all her strength to disappear.
 
Since her spears are a bad matchup I am sceptical to scaling them. It could be because their spears use their sharpness, when they are meet with kinuhatas abilities or something similar.

Given that we should either not use them for scaling or only give them as upper cap of kinuhatas stats (in other words as "at most Building level") in my opinion.


Another question is should Time related to Life and Death be removed from Fiammas profile? I think it was never mentioned to be part of the ILP?
 
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