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Toaru Majutsu no Index General Discussion Thread

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Agreed. So that would leave the Loki's Nets at 9-B minimum, though I did find this in NT4 Sub.16:

Whatever it was shot through the sky. It did not move in a gentle arc like a normal aircraft. It almost looked like horizontal-running lightning. Also, when it passed through the side of a skyscraper, the giant building's top portion was sliced off diagonally.
 
Yep, it's the first Loki's Net being released to attack the bombers. So to recap the AP is: Streel level melee with golden tools, Room level with Loki's Net, at least Large Building level with scabbard attack, Unknown with Dainsleif. I'll add it to the page and put the HsB and HsF at Wall level, possibly Room level, if that's OK with you.
 
Since I'm not as tired as yesterday I reread Marian's initial fight against the AC soldiers and Byouri in NT4, and got a few more skills/body modification applications. Also, do you think this warrrants Wall level or does she stay as Street level? (NT4 Main.11)

She held a hammer and a saw made of gold. Normally, pure gold was resistant to corrosion and oxidation but had low solidity. In other words, it was too soft a metal to use as a blade. However, that standard knowledge meant nothing to that brown girl. Her gold tools could cut steel, break concrete, and "alter" humans in psychedelic ways.

And she does stab her saw in the wall with her fat/oil sliding saw technique I forgot she even had:

"Woof, woof. Growl," muttered Marian as she stabbed her gold saw at the wall.

For some reason it stuck. As soon as she let go of it, the saw shot toward the enemy line at the speed of an automobile. The Academy City assassins had assumed her range was only that of the saw, and they could do nothing but stand still in shock at the sudden change in her reach.

Blood sprayed in to the air.

"Gah!?"

"Gyaaahh!!"

"Grease! Did she cover the wall in grease so the saw would slide on it!?"

"Too slow."

The gold saw left the wall and arced complicatedly through the air, chopping the multiple soldiers to pieces as they stood in place.

But immediately afterwards, their bodies were whole once more. None of them had bled a drop of blood this time.

The chopping multiple people to pieces and the next part I'm more doubtful if they count, as they were human targets so it might just be her body modification at work (the second assassin here survived the hit):

While the assassin behind cover's body froze in response to that sudden explosion of noise, Marian Slingeneyer approached him head on with long strides.

She swung her gold hammer like a baseball bat.

"Daruma Otoshi!!"

The assassin's entire abdomen was blown away. The blunt mass of flesh shot out like a shell and crushed another assassin located a distance away.
 
Hm... I would be careful if it comes to any appliction done to humans, because her magic could make her tools completly disregard their durability. (as you mentioned)

Cutting steel and breaking concrete seems more like it, but without seeing it in application it is questionable. Concrete can for example be broken by a normal human with a hammer and chisel.

In case of the wall stabbing, one has to look out for fine details. She stabbed her saw at the wall, not in the wall. The saw stuck, because of the fat and didn't actually enter the wall, so no feat here.


Given that I think she probably stays street level.
 
Understood. I made Kihara Amata, and will probably try to do other Kiharas. What should we do with the Equ. Dark Matter suits and Byouri's use of Dark Matter?
 
"What should we do with the Equ. Dark Matter suits and Byouri's use of Dark Matter?"

I fear I don't understand the question. What stats they should have or what do you mean?
 
Yes, we aren't putting them at the level of Kakine's and Rensa's Dark Matter, are we? Since they are special materials produced with Kakine's Dark Matter and not the esper power itself, at least for the Equ. Dark Matter Powered Suits (OT 22 C11 Part 2):


He had never seen Kakine Teitoku actually use his power, but from what he could tell, there was something off

"This isn't Dark Matter or any other esper power…?"

If so, we'll have to go for statements, as I don't remember any feat from them that would be above Wall level. Things like Hamazura thinking a tank or howitzer wouldn't be enough to defeat them, or the "I could have easily dealt with Mugino's attack if I had know it was coming" + "likely capable of deflecting Mugino's weakened Meltdowners attacks"
 
No we can not scale from the original. Hmm.. equ.Dark Matter.

One interesting thing is possibly this:

"It was the sound of the multiple white wings that had flowed out of the large flat mask knocking every single bullet to the ground. "

Taking it like it stands there one would think the the wings effectively catch the bullets mid flight and knock them to the ground, which would mean Supersonic reactions for the wings at least.

But maybe it could also have meant them just building a shield? not sure.


For the meltdowner attacks I would put that with a possibly, aside from that it is likely fine.
 
I'm also not sure about that feat, the description is a bit vague. Hamazura does manage to kill them with his assault rifle once he gest past the wings, so maybe Subsonic speed (explicit Hard Taping) possibly Supersonic reactions for that feat. For AP what about: Wall level melee (Hard Taping), Large Building level, possibly higher with wings (likely stronger than conventional powered suits, possibly stronger than a weakened Mugino). Durability would be Peak Human normally (unarmored Powered Suit), Large Building level, possibly higher with wings
 
wow, I counted 74 Toaru profiles now, that is quite amazing how much they've progressed, compared to afew months ago
 
I wasn't keeping count, but now that you mention it, there are quite a few now. Also, looking at Railgun manga raws I don't think we got a good stat upgrade for Frenda's possible stats besides solidifying her speed and reactions as athletic, possibly peak human; but she did get a few new toys. Also, brutal way to end the fight by Frenda, glad Kamachi doesn't shy away from using Index level of violence in the manga.
 
The ending to that fight was brutal, I was kind of in shock, Think it may be setting the tone for that certain some/thing that is probably just around the corner

On that note, I wish the Accelerator manga was still getting translated, I would very much like to know what the heck is happening there, I think we got another look at Accelerators blackwings on that last page of the recent raw
 
Yeah. that is going to happen soon according to the timeline in Railgun (unless they skip it like Vento's invasion). Also, Index manga is in the Academy City Invasion Arc, hopefully it continues once it reaches the end of the anime.

It's a shame that the Accelerator manga stopped just as the long fight with Scavenger ended and we got back to the plot. The new Coffins also seem really cool.
 
OK, so we talked about the clones some time ago. I heard Last Orders ranking is questionable, so maybe just rank her like the rest just with an "at least" in front of her AP?

That aside what techniques and equipment should they have?

Worst has her magnetic nail rifle and the oxygen explosion propulsion technique (have to reread where that comes from to see if I can figure out something about its speed).

I believe the will of the misaka network didn't show any special powers.

The wiki mentions that last order can detect electromagnetic fields, so maybe the same can be assumed for worst. (but I am not sure where that was mentioned, maybe when she picked the lock? Have to do research...)

The standard sister can do direct shocks and oxygen stuff. I don't remind more techniques being shown honestly. Weapon wise we see machine guns, handguns, (half-automtic?) sniper rifles and landmines. Additionally their goggles for seeing electromagnetic stuff.

Did I forget anything notable?


Lastly, should we make seperate pages for Last order and worst or should we make a page titeled Misaka Clones or Sisters and just use different keys and a tabber?
 
LordAizenSama said:
wow, I counted 74 Toaru profiles now, that is quite amazing how much they've progressed, compared to a few months ago
Click to expand...
To aru wiki has 447 characters listed, so we are not finished yet ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

then again most of those are likely featless.
 
447... whoa.

I think the worst and lastorder should have separate pages though seeing as they're individual people first and apart of a network second

standard equipment.. i'll need to double check that. would we also count the equipment they used from the experiments? (they have used landmines there)
 
We maybe should note in which way we mean standard here (maybe calling it possible/shown equipement instead or something), but I think it is notable to mention which equipement they had the the experiment as well.
 
A page of Worst and other for all the normal Misaka Sisters would be good. Last Order, well, asking around nobody could tell me where her voltage figure came from, so we only have her as a Level 3 (so she's stronger than a normal Sister but weaker than Worst).

Last Order can sense electromagnetic fields, so Worst shoulld also be able to. Also, Worst doesn't seem to need to use the same special goggles as the normal Sisters. This is Last Order detecting electromagnetic waves, just before she picks an electronic lock in OT3, so Worst could likely do that, just like she shuts off cameras like Mikoto:


She narrowed her eyes and said, calmly and slowly,

"Electromagnetic sounds detected. Wavelength at 3100 Hertz. Detecting situation, at this moment, there are five people armed with unknown dangerous objects, says Misaka as Misaka honestly reports. That may be your room, says Misaka as Misaka gives a warning."

AS for standard equipment, I'd leave Worst as "several steel nails" for her technique just like Mikoto's coins. The standard equipment for the sisters would be a Toy Soldier and/or Metal Eater and the goggles (since that's the equipment they seem to carry during the experiment and afterwards like during the Academy City Invasion Arc). Maybe a note that they have also been seen to use handguns and landmines in their skills. I don't even know how the weapon they used at the of the Endymion movie is called, but maybe we could list that as "likely stronger" in a separate key if we wanted to be really thorough. I think that was based on some artist's old illustrations that was reused for the movie.
 
I was going to revise Thor's page, but I'm not sure how to rate his arc blades without using Mjolnir, and 8-A seems a bit low for his "Mjolnir connection" state, considering all the statements he, Silvia and the narration give about him and his power. Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
Geee, whyever wikia is hating me right now <.< Had to write the Sisters page 4 times, because it always had some bug not letting me edit further...

Either way I have made it now. I will add it to the verse page later and probably create a redirect for "misaka clones" to the page.

About the AP: using 50k volt for the same calculation I used for misakas lightning gives wall level, because voltage stands in there twice. Using 1/20000 of her power gives building level. So to be safe I wrote down both.
 
LazyHunter said:
I was going to revise Thor's page, but I'm not sure how to rate his arc blades without using Mjolnir, and 8-A seems a bit low for his "Mjolnir connection" state, considering all the statements he, Silvia and the narration give about him and his power. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Hmm... on which statements are you thinking specifically?

The blowing up half a city statement only described the collateral damage an all out fight would cause in total I think. So likely not what he can do in a single explosion.

I am also hesitant to actually scale him off Silvia, given that he was mostly in a disadvantage during that battle only cornering her once due to suprise.
 
For statements I was thinking about the numerous times he's described as Gremlin's combat specialist/member in charge of direct comba and otherst:

(NT5)

"I suppose I should introduce myself as the Lightning God Thor. I am in charge of direct combat for Gremlin."

...

He was Thor.

He was referred to as the god of thunder, he was especially skilled in direct combat even for a member of Gremlin, and he was their representative combat member.

He had the destructive power needed to wage a war all on his own.

(NT6)

Ignoring the explosive noise of the air being roasted, Thor opened his mouth to speak. He had a look of disinterest on his face despite drawing out enough firepower to level a building just by waving his hand like he was shooing away an insect.

And this was just a fragment of his power.

This was nothing but an experiment to see just how far his power had been raised.

...

"Cut the crap, boy."

Silvia the Saint looked at Thor's right hand with a surprised expression. Arc fusion blades stretched over 20 meters from his five fingers. Even at that level, it was unclear just how powerful an Electromaster of the science side would be needed to duplicate it.

Yet a clear look of astonishment could be seen on Silvia's face.

Of all of Gremlin and all the Saints, she was the woman who was always standing closest to Ollerus. And yet this level of power was enough to make her look astonished.

She had that much power herself.

...

Basically, I want power. There is a limit to what you can obtain training on your own, but you start to find the opponents available to you growing very limited once you reach a certain level. …I can think of a few people who are stronger than me, but fighting them could easily end up destroying an entire city or an entire country. That would leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's been hard finding a way to meet the requirements for the next step.

(NT9)

"Try to be a little more imaginative." Thor shook his bloody right hand while smiling. "I'm known as an almighty god right now, y'know? If Othinus hadn't gouged out her eye, I'd be leading Gremlin. You need to widen your view if you want to talk about me."

I believe his biggest disadvantage during the fight with Silvia was not power but speed, which is the problem most magicians run into with Saints, as him giving his all to dodge her attacks and use his arc blades as boosters was straining his body's joints, since unlike Silvia's his body is the one of a completely normal human. While I agree that scaling him to Silvia might be a bit of a strecth, having him that much weaker than Silvia and Gremlin!Hel kind of bothers me a bit. I think he at least reaches Tier 7 with Mjolnir's support.

As I said, I'm not sure how to rate normal Thor since it's only normal arc blade feat it's easily slicing a win turbine into multiple pieces, but likely not weaker than Mikoto's iron sand. I'm also doubtful about Durability, since despite surviving Silvia crashing a section of the overpass road on top of him apparently unharmed, he stated that Touma could have hurt him with a gun since his body wasn't super durable and he did shoot himself. However, considering his obssession with combat and the fact the reason he shot himself in the first place was to make the battle more fair, he could have been willingly not using any magical defenses against Touma to make it more fair, just like the way he didn't use Almighthy Thor until the end of the fight.
 
ED: Okay, now weird stuff is happening to me, this double comment and I'm also having trouble editting pages. I'll hold back from adding to the Sisters page and others for a while.
 
Yes, the Wikia went down for a bit, it does that from time to time it seems to be ok now.

Those quotes look good though
 
I would leave the durability as is, given that the feat is solid.


For the Attack potency it is difficult.

When it comes to the statements about his power in general it is hard to tell if those don't particulary relate to him using almighty thor. The ability is just so powerful that it alone can justify his standing in the relative powerscale of the verse.

He defeated all of Gremlin (minus othinus) in battle as well, but I believe non of them had a higher durability established.

So maybe we should just settle for it as is or as possibly higher.
 
Okay, I put him as "At least Building level (Base), at least MCB (with Mjolnir)". How would you rate his lifting strength with Megingjord?
 
I don't know, probably not. In the chapter's summary posted in Debi's blog the weapon is reffered as a ÒÇîÚ½ÿÕêØÚǃþá▓ÒÇì or "High initial velocity cannon" according to Google Translate, and that appears on a screen with the weapon's picture a few pages earlier (plus 2 other japanese characters).

As a side-note, the teleporter tank-like Coffin with that weapon is the Taotie. Since the bipedal one with Psychokinesis is the Qiong Qi, that means the flying one with camouflage that took the Sister is the Hudun.
 
yes I did wonder what the talk was about it at the start, although google translate is to say the least, sketchy.

unfortunately we may never truly know. Still looks fast and cool though.

and Debi's blog?
 
LordAizenSama said:
Out of interest, do you guys think this is a laser?
Click to expand...
i dont see why not, it seems pretty much like a energy beam like in any other story, and the clear destruction on the building suggests that it desntegrated most of the concrete it touched :)

the distance... i would say around 2-3 km, the bulding looks kinda far away ^_^

PS: is that chapter 19? or have the raws more chapters?
 
i'm honestly forgetting how far behind the accelerator translations are.. I think we are upto chapter 23 or something.
 
LordAizenSama said:
yes I did wonder what the talk was about it at the start, although google translate is to say the least, sketchy.
unfortunately we may never truly know. Still looks fast and cool though.

and Debi's blog?
Click to expand...
Yeah, but the characters match with the text in the raws, and it seems to be a pretty simple translation. I've been using GT for the Object specs in the HO wiki for a while, and from what me and others have seen from the Anime specs (which are in the usual japanese Engrish) they seem to match pretty well for this kind of simple stuff (never use it on full sentences or paragraphs, though). It's the two additional characters that bother me, it could be "high initial velocity something cannon", that's why I'm not 100% sure it's not a beam weapon. But as you said, we may never now.

Debi is a japanese blogger that posts about a few different things, including almost all news about Kamachi or one of his series and summaries for basically all manga chapters and novels.
 
@Lazy that sounds quite helpful Could I grab a link to Debi's page?

EDIT:nevermind I just noticed you did.
 
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