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Toaru Majutsu no Index General Discussion Thread

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Okay, Knight Leader is done, I'll do Acqua tomorrow since it's getting kind of late here. I had totally forgotten about the Hrunting's fragments and how the Attack Range pattern actually worked.
 
You mention on Knight Leader that he can use only half his speed?

In that case his stats would be Hypersonic+ with Massively Hypersonic reactions/close combat.

But where does that come from?
 
It's from when he arrives to fight Carissa (OT18 Chapter 7 Part 7):


Knight Leader thought about how much of a disadvantage he was at, but he still smiled slightly.

The smile was slightly smug as if he had regained his true self.

"(…I suppose I can only put out half my speed, but this is perfect for stopping her without killing her!!)
 
Here. A small argument for Othinus reaction time. Since we usually use reaction speed this may be a bit of a weird thing to do, but its still a good estimation (and given her abilities reaction time is really the most important stat speed wise).

Lets see if that will fly. Aside from that the second may be too long, given that it would mean the explosions go slower then bullets... oh well, conservative low ends and all.
 
Speaking of Othinus, We should probably split her Durability into three parts, Unknown Unknown and Unknown, likely Multi-Planet level. Sigh. Her profile really does have alot of Unknowns.

I do think that Cluster explosion happened quicker than 1 second but alas I can't think of a way to get a better timeframe, unless you could somehow get it from getting the speed of a average explosion and somehow make that work..

Oh, and I was doing some thumbnails for the mainpage of ToAru, like them? seeing as we got so many characters now it's better to break up the text like that, me thinks.
 
I like the thumbnails, it's much better than the text list.

About Othinus, that Durability wouldn't really change much from what we actually have now, would it? The problem with her Durability is that she has only received damaged thrice: when her own magic backfired as she cut Ollerus' arm while he was disguised as Thor, which she fixed without problem; the Fairy Spell slowly destroying her from the inside and her own crossbow bolt. Since the first two aren't exaclty quantifiable, we only have the crossbow bolt to go on, and one could argue she used her powers to shoot it through her since her goal was to make an attack that would surprise Touma.

What bothers me more than the Durability is her speed and why in her form with Gungnir she doesn't have the FTL+ attack speed her weaker forms have (given that she also uses the wall of explosions' technique in this form), maybe adding a note that she can now teleport around. If it's for Touma being able to eventually learn to react to her attacks, she wasn't taking the fight with him seriously until just before she threw Gungnir, and it took him several thousands deaths before he completed his analysis of her combat pattern. The only reason he had all of those continues was Othinus herself trying to mentally break him.

Even in movement speed she should likely be much faster than Touma, given that she could do all of this in close quarters without any risk of Touma destroying Gungnir:

She stabbed him with the lance. She smashed open his skull with the butt of the lance. In what looked like a joke, she hit a home run using the handle of the lance.

Edit: I mean, even the ultra nerfed High Priest was casually keeping up with Touma and Mikoto running away at 60km/h in the acrobike, treating it all like a game/joke. A degree of super human speed should be obvious, especially since Othinus was much more powerful than the High Priest at that stage.
 
Well, being faster then touma in movement speed isn't all that impressive. Hardly worth mentioning.

Attack speed is defined as "The speed at which an attack moves." Her attack speed with Gungnir is instantanous, but that should be clear given her abilities (at least that is what I assumed).

You can mention teleportation if you want.
 
well there should be 3 keys to all her stats, and i'd rather her durability would be unknown for her 100% form really, that multi planet dura came from her shooting herself when she was literally falling to pieces, It should be so far out of 100% Othinus' range it may aswell just simply be Unknown. there was a narration that she could throw galaxies together to kill Touma also, assuming she was just gunna be right infront of him when and if she did so but meh.

and I thought she did get the FTL attack speed in 100% form..

oh, meant the reaction speed, because it would be instantaneous like DontTalk said
 
@DontTalk

I also thought that it would be clear that her strongest form should at least be as fast attacking as her weaker forms, but Unknown may be a bit unclear for some people, so I think that putting it as "Unknown movement speed (Can teleport), at least FTL+ attack speed" would be clearer.

I would add teleportation and add to some of her abilities, but the page is locked. Now that I talk about this, I find it funny that Accelerator and Kakine's pages are locked (I totally understand why, especially in Accel's case), but Ollerus, Gabriel or Fiamma aren't. This last one is a bit surprising, considering his ability is as NLF-friendly as Accel's, and Aureolus Izzard is also locked.

@LordAizenSama

You've got a point in that the crossbow thing happened after Gungnir was destroyed. The colliding galaxies together sounds good, but you could argue she can always teleport out of the way first, so I don't know if we'll be able to use that.
 
personally I'd find it pretty uncharacteristic for Othinus' to just simply run away from it, that's my best known possible dura for 100% othinus' but it's arguable as you said which is why i'd suggest just putting it as unknown

Personally Fiamma and Co's profile should be fine, they haven't vandalised or anything, so it should be ok to leave unlocked. I'd also have kakine and aurellous izzard unlocked, they aren't like Accelerator who is a well known fave/main Char
 
As said her attack speed is literally instantanous with Gungnir, so Unknown movement speed, instantanous attack speed and the reaction time is most we have.

About her techniques: What would you like to add? Given the great multitude of her abilities, I would actually like to limit the notable techniques section really just to what is... well notable, or in other words what is relevant to actually determining a battle (which is why for example her black moon technique isn't mentioned, it just is irrelevant for her gugnir form).
 
LordAizenSama said:
Personally Fiamma and Co's profile should be fine, they haven't vandalised or anything, so it should be ok to leave unlocked. I'd also have kakine and aurellous izzard unlocked, they aren't like Accelerator who is a well known fave/main Char
Click to expand...
Izzard is only locked because SeiryuShin locked him a year ago. I didn't change it given that I don't know why, but I might as well unlock it now.

About Kakine: I locked him some time ago because of edit wars and content revision stuff going on. I guess I can try unlocking him and see how that goes.
 
@DontTalk

I would like to maybe change the name of the cluster attack ability to "Wall of explosions" like I added to Ollerus' page for consistency and also add to the Einherjar how they work (pieces of gold inserted in body, they keep the abilities and skills they have while alive, but they depend on Othinus's magic to function and require verbal commands to work, they don't need to breathe and are unable to feel any emotion, etc...). Also add to the 100% Gungnir form that her perfected Einherjar spell allows her to freely resurrect people and control the dead and living, but she's unable to control those who are both alive and dead at the same time like the Will of the Network or St. Germain.

I agree that the moon and rain of stars techniques are pretty irrelevant and fall into her Reality warping skill.

I would also like to go through her categories, just realized she has the Magical Girl category.
 
Okay, took me a little while to notice you had unlocked it since I was AFK, but I'm done with it, you can lock it again.
 
So the Misaki figurine SS from a while back got translated, that was a surprise. Nice short story, with two unexpected references to the main plot of NT. Nothing new in the way of feats though, but there's a cool illusion created by Misaki more complex than anything I remember seeing from her (since she doesn't use illusions much). Also, it has an interview with Kamachi at the end. I found funny that one of the things he mentions in it is the lack of flying in the series when talking about Misaki's (the figurine) flying board:

There haven't been many flying machines in the main story, so I think it would really stand out if I had it show up there. But in a battle series, once you have one person flying, you have to have everyone flying. That would be taking everything to a new field, so I think it would be pretty difficult to have it show up… (laugh). Maybe if it was a limited-time-only item or something.

I could totally see Hamazura rocking a hoverboard for a volume like he did with the Dragon Rider or the Power Lifter.
 
I... didn't even notice. But that just reminds me that I actually have to still read a bunch of the side stories.

I, as well, can imagine Hamazura riding a hoverboard very well. Maybe Kamachi will include one... After all there where a bunch of talk about hoverboards in the internet recently, I believe (not really sure what was the cause of it to be honest). It is also the kind of semi-realistic/almost archievable technology he likes to use. So who knows...

Then again Kamachi might wants to expand on Aneri more. That would not go well together, I think.
 
About that subject, I know that it likely isn't going to change anything at this point and it's better for vs battles to limit him to his best feats. I'm not trying to change that. But I found this in NT4's Afterword, when Kamachi compares Accel's vector manipulation to Bersi's similar limitless ability to negate all lethal attacks and grow stronger. The difference he notes is that Accel's power treats each attack individually and doesn't permanently raise his strength, while Bersi's base power continues to grow with each attack he receives:

He could nullify all fatal attacks, but he also had a sword spell that increases its destructive power every time he was attacked. Thus, when facing a fierce attack by the enemy, he could use a spell that has an infinite ceiling. This is different from Accelerator in that it's not the control of just one attack, but that the thing that's worth noting is that once the power increases, he could maintain such destructive power when fighting the enemy in the future. As his name suggested, he really was an inflating bastard.

I think this could confirm that in-universe Accel's vector control is supposed to have an infinite ceiling when it comes to controlling attacks and his problem are attacks that get past the shield due to special properties like IB or by tricking it. This may solve the first Note in his profile about how his reflection is supposed to work in-universe, if nothing else, even if we still limit him to his best feats for battles.

Also speaking about Accel, I think his AP should get reworded. His "Multi-City Block level, Continent level by borrowing the Earth's rotational energy" is a bit outdated, as in OT19 he (Base Accel) launches a car to create an entrance to Shiokishi's shelter, compared to a nuclear shelter (so City level) and in OT21 (Also Base Accel) he stops and reflects the attacks of Gabriel and Kazakiri (Two Island level at the same time), in Kazakiri's case being described as gathering the vectors of the attacks to launch his own attack back instead of his usual reflection he uses on Gabriel. So I think that the AP should be reworded to "Up to Continent level with Vector Control", like his vector shield is described in his Durability. The Earth's rotation should still be listed in his techniques as a source of energy for him to use.

OT19:

The front half of the tunnel had one third of it smashed apart, and debris flew through the air.

What Accelerator had done was very simple. He picked up a parked car close to him with one hand, and then threw it hard at the target. There was nothing special about the laws of physics involved, and the items used weren't any kind of special materials. But, with just 'controlling all vectors' added into the mix, a simple throw could bring the results of shattering the shelter.

OT21:

BOOM!! The sound of explosions rang throughout the air. Against the doll-like angel of ice, Reflection was largely ineffective. Even though he used Reflection, the wings of ice were like soft candy, as they were bent out of shape, they were sent flying towards the forests, sending up ice and dirt as they went along.

The angle of reflection was too small. If Accelerator continued to forcibly reflect the attacks, his body would be injured too. However, Accelerator's expression did not change, for the wings of the glasses-wearing angel were fully deflected by his Reflection. The angel had an almost human-like expression of surprise, and in this instant Accelerator took away the vectors from the angel's attack. Gathering the vectors, Accelerator launched a merciless strike straight at the chest of the glasses-wearing angel.
 
Reflection wise, I believe the way the it's explained in the profile currently is fine. When it comes down to how it should be treated in the vs debates, I leave it to the ones debating, but I would prefer that no matchup results are added to his page (at least non, where that discussion is the deciding factor).

About his AP: The first one is fine, city level it is. The second one on the other hand assumes that this much energy happens to be avaiable, because of his opponents (the angels here). At least in my opinion his standard AP is what he can produce without his opponent playing him in the hands by giving him energy for his attack.
 
I agree. I didn't expect the reflection part to change anything, I just found it while I was rereading some of NT's Afterwords and decided to share it. I'm okay with the second part too.

Unrelated, but after reading the Misaki SS yesterday there was only one SS left for me to read; the one that acts as the Epilogue for the Railgun PSP game, so I just read it. There was a good application of Mikoto's power there, but like the game is probably not canon. It's very situational anyway, unless we extrapolate it to water (given the water wings in Railgun SS it certainly sounds feasible). I already knew it because of seeing the fight between Mio and Mikoto, but Military Oil is a pretty decent esper power. Very versatile, offering attack, speed and mobility; plus some other cool tricks. Still, I've read Heavy Object and Waltraute, I expected that Kamachi wouldn't be able to resist making perverted jokes about Mio's esper power, but he really went all the way with it.
 
Can someone unlock Accelerator's profile? I want to add the City level feat and make a general revision and add categories. Does anyone know what the profile is referring to with this:

Angelic (Divine) Manipulation: After gaining understanding of divine entities and magic, he can partially take control over them

Is that just reffering to him being able to manipulate Telesma with his vector control during his fight with Gabriel and when he reflected Fiamma's Telesma attack on Eurasia? Because calling that taking partial control over divine/angelic entities might be stretching it.
 
I dunno, he does gain more info about magic related stuff from birdway after ww3, but I don't remember him controlling/exploiting anything notable
 
No idea as well; it stood there before my time. You can just remove it. I will unlock the page for a bit then.
 
Profiles for the Misaka clones would be nice. We do have specific comparisons for all the clones' esper powers with Mikoto's, so their lightning AP should be easy to determine.

A normal Sister is a Level 2 Electromaster, 1/20,000 Mikoto, max output of 50,000 volts

Last Order is a Level 3 Electromaster, 126/20,000 Mikoto, output of 6,300,000 volts

Worst is a Level 4 Electromaster, 1/5 Mikoto, max output of 200,000,000 volts
 
yes their AP should be a easy find, i'm not sure of Worst, or any of the clones base physical attributes though unfortunately
 
I added the Dragon Rider, though I left the jet fuel explosion as just "higher" until we have a calc for it. Next I'll probably make a Power Lifter page, then Hamazura's, since his page shouldn't be hard to do and he's the third protagonist after all.
 
jet fuel explosion? Hmm.. it wasn't stated how much was ejected, I believe. Other information that would help isn't there as well, so I believe I lack information to calc that explosion.


That aside is there any reason fiamma has reality warping?

I have the feeling that originates from the time where the reality warping page still said, that anything not possible by physics is reality warping, but I would like conformation that I am not overlooking something before I delete it.
 
He did transform the skies into heaven with his presence, does that count?

I can't remember any Index controller abilities showcasing Reality warping so shouldn't be that, at least the ones we know of

EDIT: Wait, what about his powers to replicate feats from the Bible, things like turning people into pillars of salt in such would be considered reality warping
 
LordAizenSama said:
He did transform the skies into heaven with his presence, does that count?
I can't remember any Index controller abilities showcasing Reality warping so shouldn't be that, at least the ones we know of

EDIT: Wait, what about his powers to replicate feats from the Bible, things like turning people into pillars of salt in such would be considered reality warping
Click to expand...
That would be transmutation if I'm not mistaken.
 
Now that I think about it, he and Gabriel both have it. I drawing a blank on Gabriel, maybe it was put because of Astro in Hand, so that can be deleted. Fiamma's maybe comes from him fixing the four elements' distortion with the Star of Bethlehem and Gabriel, which was fixing the world's natural laws (but this required a ceremony and isn't useful in battle); or maybe from him calling Heaven to Earth when he became La Persona Superiore a Dio, which from the description could be more an ability based on christanity than reality warping (though the narration does mention Phases when Fiamma is calling it in and we know Heaven is a Phase, so it may be low scale Phase manipulation). Not enough info, unfortunately.

I agree with deleting it from both pages, since none of them used it in a way useful for battle.

EDIT: I'd also delete the "has resistance to anti magic attacks" from Fiamma's flame sword, since that was a case of IB struggling to cancel a massive/continuous-type power like with Accel's wings or Index's Dragon Breath, so it's not about resistance.
 
I was reading Gabriel's page, shouldn't she/he have FTL or MFTL attack speed with astro in hand?since stars are light years away.
 
should also remove the "comparable to Aiwass" in striking force from gabriels profile. must be a fairly dated description
 
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