Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 6

[Reyzakurrota]

So accel can only deflect curtana dimensional slash in his wings mode

 

[Malox1696]

So accel can only deflect curtana dimensional slash in his plat mode, and curtana will pass through his reflection if accel didn't use wings? Or he can still deflect without plat wings

Simply put before wings Accel limited to striking the blade before the swing , after he activate the wings and is linked to 545 he can acces magical knowledge and so he can simply parry it has normal , he lacked the input for the vector simmilar to how DM worked ,with the connection to 545 he gains full knowledge


As always it's a matter of updating his filter

 

[Scrlk666777]

No, he can reflect it in base, as he did so earlier and text said he was reflecting, using reflection, so it wouldn't have made a difference if he was in winged mode or not.

 

[Malox1696]

Nope u can litteraly ctrl+f for reflection in the novel , what u mean is probably this but has already the wings

"Accessing Clonoth. Calculation substitution has begun."

Yes.

Even using strange magic could no longer harm the #1 with an unnaturally distorted reflection.

And his interceptions did not just take the form of physical pebbles and metal nails.

"Don't assume you alone can use magic. He's already analyzed that world!!"

He acces the wings litteraly after he uses the pebble to deflect Curtana so the whole fight he had platinum wings

After spitting all that out, wings with a pale platinum shine erupted from his back.

 

[Reyzakurrota]

Nope u can litteraly ctrl+f for reflection in the novel , what u mean is probably this but has already the wings

"Accessing Clonoth. Calculation substitution has begun."

Yes.

Even using strange magic could no longer harm the #1 with an unnaturally distorted reflection.

And his interceptions did not just take the form of physical pebbles and metal nails.

"Don't assume you alone can use magic. He's already analyzed that world!!"

He acces the wings litteraly after he uses the pebble to deflect Curtana so the whole fight he had platinum wings

After spitting all that out, wings with a pale platinum shine erupted from his back.

It not their first battle, their first clash is in part 7 when accel save hamazura from elizard. What u said above is after accel use plat wings in part 11, and their first curtana and accel clash in part 7 before plat wings

 

[Reyzakurrota]

So a pebble attack can deflect curtana with dimensional slash, or in their first clash curtana didn't use dimensional slash. I think curtana always have dimensional slash and cut everything. But if pebble attack can deflect curtana with dimensional slash it just ridiculous. And when curtana swing at accelerator in their first clash, the narrator says that in can cut all dimension and kill being that lurking in higher dimension

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

The clonoth isn't platium wings. That should have been obvious to you when he unleashed Platinum wings before he was connected to the Clonoth.

@Reyzakurrota

We don't know what he used to deflect curtana, the pebble bit was referring to him smashing through Elizard herself. Elizard guessed he used some kind of projectile to hit the blade and change it's course but also questions it rigth after since it would take someone on the level of a stagetic bombing to achieve such an effect. So Elizard wasn't overly sure what had happened but part 11 basically points to him just using reflection.

 

[Reyzakurrota]

Yeah I little confused, if a proyektil can deflect the direction of curtana with dimensional slash it will be very ridiculous. But if a proyektil can deflect curtana, I think in that slash curtana didn't use dimensional slash. But I think curtana always cutting all dimension when it swing

 

[Malox1696]

So a pebble attack can deflect curtana with dimensional slash, or in their first clash curtana didn't use dimensional slash. I think curtana always have dimensional slash and cut everything. But if pebble attack can deflect curtana with dimensional slash it just ridiculous. And when curtana swing at accelerator in their first clash, the narrator says that in can cut all dimension and kill being that lurking in higher dimension

dimensional slash only happen if curtna is swing accel literary hits the sword with enough force to make it go back so it never swings then Elizard triggered him with moral abiguity, so he go platinum wings, for some reason 545 is being useless so accel is stuck only deflecting curtana before a full swing or dodging, the she finally wakes up connect to the clonoth and gives accel the update to the filter so he can reflect curtana

the filter is updated so it will work even in base but before he could not reflect it cause 545 is a lazy/useless demon, although he might need the boosted calculation from the clonoth

but a dimensional slash with coordinates inside the the field or at the field directly will take priority for curtana (similar to how IB negation takes priority over accel vector control)

 

[Reyzakurrota]

@malox But the naration said that the curtana already swung at accelerator


"A moment later, Curtana Second was swung down with the force of a lightning strike".

 

[Reyzakurrota]

And you said dimensional slash activated when it swung, so because it already swung at accel, it already activated dimensional slash

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yeah, it says she had already swung the sword down.

@Malox

No, he was reflecting Curtana even before being connected to the clonoth.

 

[Reyzakurrota]

Yeah if the curtana already swung at accelerator that mean dimension slash already activated, it hard to believe that a proyektil can deflect the direction of those attavk

 

[Scrlk666777]

It's not overly clear what happened. Elizard only hazard a guess at what happened but even the narration questions this right after.

I mean both were said to be pretty impressive standing up against each other's hax.

Who was more frightening here? Elizard for continually parrying Accelerator's attacks that came with his reflection that could kill at a touch, or Accelerator for facing Curtana Second's omnidimensional slicing without even taking a scratch?

To be honest though, whether it was base, clonoth or platinum wings, it's still pretty impressive either way that Accelerator can take Elizard with Curtana second head on and only come out of it with a near scatch, all the while holding back.

 

[Malox1696]

Yeah if the curtana already swung at accelerator that mean dimension slash already activated, it hard to believe that a proyektil can deflect the direction of those attavk

it literally says it

The white monster gave a snort of laughter.

A moment later, Curtana Second was swung down with the force of a lightning strike.

The apparent distance between them did not matter.

Not when that queen used her full power.

That sword was an extreme spiritual item that fully united the three factions and four regions of the United Kingdom; it could draw on a portion of Archangel Michael's power while on British territory. If a qualified user released that power even for a moment, a swing of the sword would sever all dimensions at once and giant ruined materials would be created along the line of the slash.

Yes, all dimensions.

Assuming it could hit, that extraordinary power could penetrate the barrier between worlds and kill a being lurking in a different phase… for example, Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass who stayed in the layer of physical laws at the very bottom.

However.

Immediately afterwards, a deafening metal clang filled the air and Curtana Second shot upwards.

"!?"

(Did he alter the course of blade by directly hitting Curtana with a projectile instead of going for the line of the slash!?)

That said, Elizard could directly deflect heavy machine gun bullets with that sword.

To knock her off balance like this would require something on the level of a strategic bombing.

In fact.

When Second Princess Carissa had held Curtana Original, she had ordered a cruise missile strike on herself and used the sword to escape unscathed.

The sword's unnatural movement pulled both Elizard's arms up like she was cheering, but Accelerator did not make a further attack. Even though he could have kicked a pebble and manipulated its vector to tear through her organs while her torso was exposed like this.

"A difference in positions? Protecting your nation? …So other people's circumstances don't matter? Don't screw with me, you conceited member of the privileged class. That logic ain't gonna work here."

"You simply do not understand—"

"Finish that with 'this pressure' and I really will punch you to open your eyes. It's painfully obvious you're assuming no one else understand your worries here. You're subconsciously looking down on us."

Elizard returned Curtana to proper position.

She also took a step back to readjust the distance between them.

Accelerator was surrounded by the sounds of rustling underbrush. Maids, nuns, knights, and priests. A vortex of hostile eyes turned on him from a wide variety of enemies who were probably all noble followers of good and righteousness.

"I already said I would do whatever it took. I am not fighting this war based on what the historians will think of me. I am fighting to protect the lights of those ordinary homes!!!!!"

The white monster was isolated.

But his confident smile remained.

"Is this all the vision you've got? Aren't you supposed to be the representative of the United Kingdom? And here I thought I could learn something from you, Senpai."

"What…?"

"It wasn't just the interests and greed of the filthy adults that made Academy City the way it is. It was me. I stood at the top as the #1, but I couldn't give them any real vision. I stifled them. I robbed them of their dreams and left them there to rot. They studied and studied and studied and filled their heads with all sorts of crap, but they couldn't become anything more than murderous *****. I've finally started to think that's the real problem with that city."

After spitting all that out, wings with a pale platinum shine erupted from his back."

then :"

More and more explosive noises rang out.

Accelerator and Elizard's battle was no longer limited to the ground. They kicked off the castle's stone walls, jumped up to the flat roof, and continued their persistent clash.

Who was more frightening here? Elizard for continually parrying Accelerator's attacks that came with his reflection that could kill at a touch, or Accelerator for facing Curtana Second's omnidimensional slicing without even taking a scratch?

The girl in a newspaper dress spoke while wrapping her arms around the white monster's neck.

"Accessing Clonoth. Calculation substitution has begun."

Yes.

Even using strange magic could no longer harm the #1 with an unnaturally distorted reflection.

And his interceptions did not just take the form of physical pebbles and metal nails.

"Don't assume you alone can use magic. He's already analyzed that world!!"

Even the course of the physical sword itself was twisted at the moment of impact.

u can see before clonoth he just deflected before she could swing, so no dimensional slice

then after inputting the new value for curtana spell he can just parry it as normal (similar to how DM first passed and then after the update it does not work on him anymore)

 

[Scrlk666777]

Immediately afterwards, a deafening metal clang filled the air and Curtana Second shot upwards.

Meaning after she's already swung the sword down.

I guess you are once again ignorig this bit since it doesn;t suit your agenda,

Who was more frightening here? Elizard for continually parrying Accelerator's attacks that came with his reflection that could kill at a touch, or Accelerator for facing Curtana Second's omnidimensional slicing without even taking a scratch?

 

[Reyzakurrota]

Yeah the curtana already swung at accel that mean the curtana already have dimensional slash. And do you think a mere proyektil can deflect curtana powerful dimensional slash that can cut all direction.

 

[Malox1696]

dude she literary said he altered the trajectory

(Did he alter the course of blade by directly hitting Curtana with a projectile instead of going for the line of the slash!?

u can't alter a trajectory if she had already fully swing

and again in that bits it does not say he used reflection to curtana it simply says him not getting hit and elizard parry him (he was not serious btw the narrator literary said she would have already died)

this the fault of 545 being lazy and letting him fight without the anti magic power , trash demon confirmed

 

[Scrlk666777]

No, she questioned if that was what happend. Do you see that question mark right at the end? See it?

It wasn't a statement of what happened but Elizard questioning what had happened. There is a difference between the two.

 

[Reyzakurrota]

In that moment curtana already swung and have dimensional slash, and I think a proyektil can't deflect curtana with dimensional slash that can cut higher dimension

 

[Malox1696]

dude the narrator says it

Immediately afterwards, a deafening metal clang filled the air and Curtana Second shot upwards.

"!?"

(Did he alter the course of blade by directly hitting Curtana with a projectile instead of going for the line of the slash!?)

That said, Elizard could directly deflect heavy machine gun bullets with that sword.

To knock her off balance like this would require something on the level of a strategic bombing

u are arguing sematics

btw please quote me where it says he reflected curtana before connection to clonoth since u are nitpicking on question marks , btw !? means surprise not question so again self-defeating point

form wikipedia: A sentence ending with an interrobang asks a question in an excited manner, expresses excitement or disbelief in the form of a question aka surprise

 

[Reyzakurrota]

It not a statement but a question from elizard, it just her guess not actually happening

 

[Reyzakurrota]

It not a statement but a question from elizard, it just her guess not actually happening

 

[Reyzakurrota]

Logically, do you think curtana with dimensional slash that can cut all higher dimension and higher being can be reflected by a mere pebble attack

 

[Zensum]

i have a question:

Why Touma does not have resistances to Fate Manipulation and Probability Manipulation?

I mean, he can destroy Gungnir right? Are those already covered in power null or because Othinus was intentional?

Gungnir isn't a weapon that manipulates fate or probability so destroying it wouldn't give you those resistances. However maybe Touma could get fate resistance for imagine breaker naturally negating divine protection and the red string of fate.

 

[Reyzakurrota]

And it already fully swing, Lok at this quotes


A moment later, Curtana Second was swung down with the force of a lightning strike.

The moment later curtana WAS SWUNG so elizard already swung her curtana at accel with lightning strike firce

 

[Malox1696]

In that moment curtana already swung and have dimensional slash, and I think a proyektil can't deflect curtana with dimensional slash that can cut higher dimension

he deflected her mid swing, no full swing no slice, that's how the spell works or literally moving he blade around would cut urself up, that's how they were fighting carissa too accel just can easily do the job of 3 saint from range

 

[Scrlk666777]

I've already proved the quote, like 10 times. But if I have to again.

Who was more frightening here? Elizard for continually parrying Accelerator's attacks that came with his Reflection that could kill at a touch, or Accelerator for facing Curtana Second's omnidimensional slicing without even taking a scratch?

The question mark here is not a question of what happened but a question of who was more impressive. Elizard against reflection or Accelerator against the Omnidimensional slicing.

 

[Scrlk666777]

he deflected her mid swing, no full swing no slice, that's how the spell works or literally moving he blade around would cut up

No he didn't deflect it mid swing, she had already swung it down, then immediately after it shot up.

 

[Malox1696]

And it already fully swing, Lok at this quotes

A moment later, Curtana Second was swung down with the force of a lightning strike.

The moment later curtana WAS SWUNG so elizard already swung her curtana at accel with lightning strike firce

look at a moment later

(Did he alter the course of blade by directly hitting Curtana with a projectile instead of going for the line of the slash!?

u can't alter the trajectory of something if it's already completed its movement (can u alter a car trajectory if is alredy at destination ? nope)

 

[Malox1696]

I've already proved the quote, like 10 times. But if I have to again.
Who was more frightening here? Elizard for continually parrying Accelerator's attacks that came with his Reflection that could kill at a touch, or Accelerator for facing Curtana Second's omnidimensional slicing without even taking a scratch?

The question mark here is not a question of what happened but a question of who was more impressive. Elizard against reflection or Accelerator against the Omnidimensional slicing.

i see no reflection in the quote highlighted this just means he dodge or deflected as he did not get hit , especially cause the narration mentions it when he reflect it later it would be a big oversight

 

[Scrlk666777]

Again this is a question not a statement of fact. Elizard herself wasn't sure what had happened, something like that had never happened before.

 

[Reyzakurrota]

And I already said that is just express of dibelief from elizard, and she just guessing what happened, it not what actually happened, it just wild guess from elizard

 

[Malox1696]

dude stop, u are literally going on anything but ur opinion "this question mark here means this, this question mark here means that, those word here means this this means that" make a CTR ur opinion is so superior everyone will agree with u like before about the slice " he can totally reflect it accel invicible 1!111!!!", make a ctr go ahead

u have 0 quote that support what are saying

 

[Scrlk666777]

i see no reflection in the quote highlighted this just means he dodge or deflected as he did not get hit , especially cause the narration mentions it when he reflect it later it would be a big oversight

You don't see reflection when I literally bolded it? He was using reflection against her, he was reflecting her attacks, that should be pretty obvious, even to you. Reflections, reflect attacks back, that's the defination of what reflection does.

Also it clearly says he was facing it, not dodging. The latter wouldn't have been nearly as impressive would it now?

 

[Malox1696]

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[Scrlk666777]

make a CTR ur opinion is so superior everyone will agree with u like before about the slice " he can totally reflect it accel invicible 1!111!!!", make a ctr go ahead
u have 0 quote that support what are saying

But you don't either.

And all we are saying, at least what I am saying, is what happened is not clear. No one is saying Elizard is wrong only that she wasn't making a statement but was questioning what had happened. That is all.

No one is saying that Accel is invincible. I mean he still beat her though and was holding back but let's ignore this bit because it according to you, Accelerator should have gotten easily beaten by Elizard.

 

[Malox1696]

cause it literally says it ?

"The sword's unnatural movement pulled both Elizard's arms up like she was cheering, but Accelerator did not make a further attack. Even though he could have kicked a pebble and manipulated its vector to tear through her organs while her torso was exposed like this."


accel was going easy, the narration says it , could have already killed her or beaten her

 

[Scrlk666777]

Why do people think that Elizard had the advantage? I mean like you said, this quote pretty much makes it clear that Accelerator could destroy her at any time, if he truly wanted to but that would have looked bad on him and on Academy City as a whole.

 

[Malox1696]

people don't give elizard the advantage , it's simply curtana is an hax

if said hax is magical in nature, without clonoth support accel can't reflect it same as aiwass wings or pre update dark matter, his filter can't act upon it as it's does not have the formulas to interact with it

without clonoth connection he can't reflect curtana specifically,

for the argument of vs battle it changes nothing unless they have the same hax as curtana