Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 6

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

Oh right you did, my bad. I'm not making his powers out to be something they are not, if Accelerator can't reflect it I will say so, but if he can I will also say so. I mean it shouldn't be that suprising he can reflect Curtana and the slice.

It also gets annoying when people try to make out he can hardly reflect a thing. I'm not saying you do that but a lot do.

 

[Malox1696]

Omnidimenional is different from omnidirectional. Omnidirectional is ability to cut any coordinate just by swung curtana, this one can be reflected if the coordinate inside the reflection, the second is omnidimensional,, the ability to cut all dimension. This ability can bypassed accel reflection if attack the coordinate where the reflection is exist

No, the only omniDIRECTIONAL attack Curtana has is the explosion by hitting the ground, no other attack is OmniDirectional.

No it does we had this CTR after nt 22 ntr , it was already speculated in ot17 but ntr 22 gave us confirmation that as along as it's in UK Teritory she can use the dimensional slice everywhere she needs to swing tho but the strike will hit at the desired coordinates

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yeah,

A moment later, Curtana Second was swung down with the force of a lightning strike.

The apparent distance between them did not matter.

Not when that queen used her full power.

That sword was an extreme spiritual item that fully united the three factions and four regions of the United Kingdom; it could draw on a portion of Archangel Michael's power while on British territory. If a qualified user released that power even for a moment, a swing of the sword would sever all dimensions at once and giant ruined materials would be created along the line of the slash.

Yes, all dimensions.

Assuming it could hit, that extraordinary power could penetrate the barrier between worlds and kill a being lurking in a different phase… for example, Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass who stayed in the layer of physical laws at the very bottom.

also it's called Omnidimensional slice not omnidirectional slice.

 

[Malox1696]

It's omnidirectional cause she can chose the coordinates where it hits

Omnidimensional cause it slice all dimensions

 

[Scrlk666777]

No I mean that's what the attack is called Omnidimensional slice.

Accelerator for facing Curtana Second's omnidimensional slicing without even taking a scratch?

 

[XDragnoir]

Omnidirectional means 360┬░ at the same time.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Well if this is the case then he can reflect Omnidimesional stuff but can't Omnidirectional stuff, depending on if it hits and slices through the right coorindates.

 

[Accelerate420]

Omnidimensional slicing can slice his field, but it cannot activate inside his field, thus she needs to slice at the line of the barrier to get the rest of the slice damage through. That simple.

This isn't a weakness to spatial-anything though, because Curtana isn't spatial manipulation. It's durability/cutting priority. I'm not seeing any line of spatial weakness on his profile but if there is, it should be removed if it's done on the pretense of Curtana logic, since while it is cutting space, that's different from manipulating space.

 

[Malox1696]

Omnidirectional means 360┬░ at the same time.

We simply give it that name it's simply the technique that knight leader talked abou in ot 18, by combining both u get a strike that In theory always hit and can't be defended similar to knight leader sword spell, Carissa didn't use it in ot 18, elizard did in nt 22 ntr

 

[XDragnoir]

The technique KL talked is called Ultimate Strike by the fanbase, and i don't remember Elizard using it, quotes?

 

[Scrlk666777]

I put in the quotes above. They are in bold.

 

[Accelerate420]

Okay I read Lazy's blog and I feel like there's a misunderstanding. Spatial attacks can only get through if they produce no vectors. Curtana can cut the barrier because it cuts at the coordinates and they become severed, but that doesn't produce a vector. But just doing spatial attacks itself can't actually by-pass the reflection if they produce vectors.

So I don't believe there's much wrong with what is said aside from not being very specific about it.

The TL;DR is: If it severs without a vector, it works. But if a spatial cutting attack needs to swing itself at Accel, it doesn't because then it produces a vector. Same with dimensional stuff. It also has to be done on the Vector field itself to by-pass as Accel as internally regulated vectors going on as well.

So this isn't really much worth discussing, it's just a line that wasn't really addressed super properly and mishandled, but it's not exactly wrong either. So basically it's a weakness but any normal spatial/dimension warper isn't gonna get through just because they manip spatial/dimension stuff. It's specific.

 

[Malox1696]

The technique KL talked is called Ultimate Strike by the fanbase, and i don't remember Elizard using it, quotes?

Litterally what was posted until now , elizard managed to hit Accel exactly cause if that, the attacks started in the field and too priority, how did u think she was able to strike the field codrinates directly withou swinging at Accel ?

 

[Scrlk666777]

Accelerate420 That makes more sense. So basically like all things regarding Accelerator's reflection it depends on the circumstances regarding the attack.

I don't know why but why is it every time something can pentrate it's an instant loss for Accel? I mean for a long time, most thought magicians would crush Accel when in reality all he has to do is take a step and blow them away before they even use magic.

Pre-Headshot Accel might have stood there and let people just attack him but Post-Headshot actually more often than not does the attacking first and tries for the quick win, if he can.

 

[Malox1696]

Omnidimensional slicing can slice his field, but it cannot activate inside his field, thus she needs to slice at the line of the barrier to get the rest of the slice damage through. That simple.
This isn't a weakness to spatial-anything though, because Curtana isn't spatial manipulation. It's durability/cutting priority. I'm not seeing any line of spatial weakness on his profile but if there is, it should be removed if it's done on the pretense of Curtana logic, since while it is cutting space, that's different from manipulating space.

And said spatial attack needs to be strong enough to cut the 11th dimension or just like teleportation it gets redirected

 

[Accelerate420]

I don't know why but why is it every time something can pentrate it's an instant loss for Accel?

Cuz vsbattle does fights like turn based RPG tbh

 

[XDragnoir]

I thought all she did is spam All Dimensions Severing Spell, i didn't think it was a different attack.

 

[Malox1696]

It's still that she just combined the 2 , she can strike at any coordinates so distance is irrelevant and cut trough anything so defence is irrelevant, the so called ultimate strike KL spoiled in ot 18

His own spell was him trying to copy it but did not succeed at combining multiple patterns

 

[Scrlk666777]

Cuz vsbattle does fights like turn based RPG tbh

• Sigh* That's true. I also think there's a bit of misundestanding that goes on with his character; not just his character but other Toaru characters to but I feel he gets it the worst.

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

I forget to mention this earlier. We actually don't know if the attack would have killed him, that would depend on his wings and the durability that he has with the wings. It's not known if the wings themselves were still present, they came out in Part 7 but there was no mention of them at all in Part 11.

 

[Zensum]

"Spatial/Dimensional attacks that cut/destroy space itself can get through his redirection, as the attack is destroying/damaging the space occupied by the reflection field."

This simultaneously severs every dimension at the coordinates whether they are higher dimensions or lower dimensions. My take on this is I agree there are two apsects to it. The first, the omnidimensional phenomina, is merely a perforation of all dimensions/phases simultaneously at a certain coordinate. There's not really a vector to it, so this aspect can't be stopped by reflection. If what she was saying was true, that sword was a monstrous weapon that could cut right through dimensions which did exist but were more of a concept than anything. No matter how much steel someone used to protect his body, Curtana Original could cut right through the dimension to cleave him in two.The other aspect is Curtana's ability to cleave through dimensions at the trajectory of the sword. Elizard was unable to kill Accelerator with this because she would attack Accelerator himself and Curtana's trajectory would merely get altered which is why she postulated if she were to slice the barrier itself her attack would go through. Therefore Accelerator has to pay careful attention to where she is slicing. Nothing I do can arrive in time in the areas you have already calculated out, but you are only acquiring information through your ordinary eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and ski. That's the reasoning for this quote. So dimensional severing of this level can ignore his reflection if it can precisely hit the cordinates occupied by his field.

Also the first Railgun episode was pretty good.

 

[Scrlk666777]

It depends on the vector part, if it has a point A to Point B, it can still be classifed as a vector, no matter what.

 

[XDragnoir]

Btw, i was reading the profiles of the MGs, Chimera's beauty is H1C even in his 5B key right?

 

[Malox1696]

Well it did go trough once and considering how the spell if Accel got hit he would die

For the sake of Vs battle arguments, then it would need an attack similar to Curtana so a spatial rendering attack that works up to the 11th D and can be spawned anywhere

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

You don't know if he would have died or not, you are just assuming he would.

It's your own headcanon, nothing more and nothing less but here you are assuming you would know what would have happened if it did actually hit.

 

[Malox1696]

@Malox
You don't know if he would have died or not, you are just assuming he would.

It's your own headcanon, nothing more and nothing less but here you are assuming you would know what would have happened if it did actually hit.

well from the knowledge we have now accel body is at max 4 b , curtana is 1hc and maybe more considering is an hax (simmilar to how accel ignore magnitude)

 

[Scrlk666777]

I'm not tallking actual Vs. Battle stats. Of course if we were doing it from that of course Accelerator would have died but in the actual novel itself, we don;t know.

Although if he did get hit and completely survived a High 1-C attack in Plat wings, without reflection, I could imagine the meltdown if that had happened.

 

[Malox1696]

Well in the actual novel is still the same , he didn't show it so we assume it by the max he could tank

Even if we were to assume in novel that he gains similae body to aiwass as he has same wings , he would still die as aiwass would die to curtana

 

[Scrlk666777]

I'm actually face palming here.

I. am. not. referring. to. Vs. Wikia. Battle. Stats. Forget about his profile stats for a moment.

In the actual novel, it's not still the same. Why? Well firstly Accelerator has yet to actually use Platinum wings in any defensive way. He's yet to tank any attack while using those wings. So his durability is actually very much unknown.

Now that's nor to say I think we should change it to unknow, no I think we should keep him at 4-B durability but in actual reality, in the novels themselves, platinum wings are very much an unknow at this point.We've only really seen them do one thing, which was remove Coronzon's soul from her physical body using something similar to holism.

I'm only talking theories here.

 

[Malox1696]

what theory gives u that ? I mean even if we assume he has same Durability as aiwass which is one of the strongest being we have in universe , it would still cut him up, cause Curtana can cut aiwass up as narrator said

And aiwass fought corozon until the aim was no more , here I'm talking about his real body

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

What do you mean what theory gives me that? Do I need one? Am I going against any solid facts? No I am not, so what's the issue you have with someone theorizing about something that is very much an unknow at this point.

You're acting like I'm saying we should upgraded Accelerator's AP and durability to H1-C. I'm not saying that or arguing that at all.

You know sometimes it's just good to have discussion about the possibility of things. This is a discussion thread after all, is it not? We can discuss things like theories and possibilites here and it not meaning a thing in vs, battles. We can discuss future developments,

Lighten up at times, won't you?

 

[Malox1696]

No I'm simply saying that in the novel the most durable being we have is aiwass and even if we assume Accel is as durable as him curtana cuts the 2 of them just fine , even if we assume that Accel gains super duper 100th D defense it would still get sashimied by Curtana by litteraly how it works

 

[Scrlk666777]

I get you. Yeah, I guess it's pretty much pointless. Curtana is pretty much hax. I mean the fact that Accelerator could stand up to it and actually defeat Elizard is pretty much an amazing feat in and out of itself.

 

[Malox1696]

Yes it is an hax similar to Accel vector control , they ignore certain parameters that makes them op

 

[Reyzakurrota]

Just a question, in the first clash between accel and curtana, accel deflect curtana slash in his base form, and after that accel use plat wings, but after this scene it never mentioned that accel use plat wings to attack elizard. Does in battle between them accel use plat wings after their first clash or just his base form?

 

[Scrlk666777]

It's not really known if plat wings are still active when we see then again part 11. Most of the battle happens off screen really, it;s only the very end of the battle we see, which Accelerator mostly uses his phone to deal with EIizard before using his own power to ultimately defeat her.

it doesn't go back though. Part 11 is a continuation of part 7.

 

[Malox1696]

No they are active , he just uses the science side toys to prove a point he could have beaten elizard if he wanted from the start

 

[Reyzakurrota]

So accel can only deflect curtana dimensional slash in his plat mode, and curtana will pass through his reflection if accel didn't use wings? Or he can still deflect without plat wings

 

[Eganergo]

i have a question:

Why Touma does not have resistances to Fate Manipulation and Probability Manipulation?

I mean, he can destroy Gungnir right? Are those already covered in power null or because Othinus was intentional?

 

[Scrlk666777]

No they are active , he just uses the science side toys to prove a point he could have beaten elizard if he wanted from the start

We don't know if they are active since there are no mention of them in part 11. But yeah, he basically could have beaten Elizard from the very start, even without the phone, really. But that would have pretty much looked bad on him.