Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[DontTalkDT]

One could see that either way, I guess. Technically, Aiwass will still exist just fine without the AIM Fields, just that he will have no physical form then (and Anna clearly summons him without those as well).
On the other hand one might say that he should have it as his usual physical form is reliant on it.

 

[RaiserAIM]

One could see that either way, I guess. Technically, Aiwass will still exist just fine without the AIM Fields, just that he will have no physical form then (and Anna clearly summons him without those as well).
On the other hand one might say that he should have it as his usual physical form is reliant on it.

If that's the case, shouldn't the one Aleister's summon and the one Anna's summon have different keys?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Maaaaybe. Although currently Aleisters version is basically Anna's in better. Personally, I would only make an extra key when Anna's version has some more showings.

 

[XDragnoir]

Btw, is there any calc for the 7B ratings?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Not really. We just scale from RL nukes, I guess.
Given, a calc for the AC destruction is easy.
Tokyo is 2194.07 km^2 in area. AC is 1/3rd of that aka. 731.3566666666666667 km^2
AC is a circle, so we can simply calc the explosion size as the radius of that.
pi*r^2 = 731.3566666666666667 km^2
=> r = 15.257721236358435 km
Plugging that into the nuke calculator gives us 182 megatons of TNT.
Divide by 2 for not nuclear and get 91 megatons of TNT.

 

[XDragnoir]

Hmmm

I think this could be added to a blog and then linked on Accel's profile? Iirc he and Kakine are the only 7Bs, right?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I suppose I should do that. Get it evaluated as well. Where does the "can destroy AC" come from again?

But that reminds me that I forgot to update the Kakine and Rensa scaling... would Beetle 05 scale to High 6-C? IIRC comparable attack power was less clear during the Rensa and NT Accel fight, so maybe 7-B for both keys?

 

[XDragnoir]

I suppose I should do that. Get it evaluated as well. Where does the "can destroy AC" come from again?

I think it's from OT3 when he created the plasma attack? Not sure really.

But that reminds me that I forgot to update the Kakine and Rensa scaling... would Beetle 05 scale to High 6-C? IIRC comparable attack power was less clear during the Rensa and NT Accel fight, so maybe 7-B for both keys?

I think at least 7B, possibly H6C should be valid, cause it's really unclear.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Hmmm... keyword search results in nothing for OT3.

I suppose tiering wise that's fine.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Beetle 05 shouldn't be scaled up to High 6-C imo. Beetle 05 for starters didn't actually fight Black winged form because that's what the high 6-C scaling allures to right? I know Accelerator's stats has changed again since I've been away but anyway Beetle 05 has no real feats of him being able to have a High 6-C scaling because the moment the black winged came out Beetle was taken out of the game when he was hit once by those black wings.

Though maybe durability might be a different story since he still survived being hit by those wings even if he did have trouble regenerating.

 

[XDragnoir]

No, at that point Accel was H6C even in base.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Hang on a minute forget what I said I see the High 6-C scales to just base Post-head Accelerator post Aiwass. It's a bit confusing to be honest this new scaling structure but anyway I'm still unsure whether Kakine/Beetle 05 should scale to High 6-C.

 

[XDragnoir]

would Beetle 05 scale to High 6-C? IIRC comparable attack power was less clear during the Rensa and NT Accel fight, so maybe 7-B for both keys?

Found these quotes during their fight:

"Kamijou Touma, Kakine Teitoku, and Rensa.

The first two to clash were the ones with wings.

In other words, Kakine and Rensa clashed at supersonic speeds.

A great roar exploded out after a short delay."


And:


"Kakine Teitoku cut in between them.

Kamijou could hear repeated sounds of dull impacts. The white wings and tornado wings slammed forcefully into each other again and again. It sounded less like a fistfight and more like an argument between a sewing machine and a machine gun."

 

[Scrlk666777]

It's hard to really get an idea of Kakine's attack power here though as Rensa for one didn't seem to be fighting all that seriously against Beetle 05 and was pretty much laughing at him throughout their little wing exchanged but let's say Rensa was fighting seriously this was the first time the wings was used in an attacking sense, the wind wings I mean, and at best they merely made the building tremble at the force of the two sets of wings clashing together.

Now also thinking on it if the 7-B scaling is scaling Kakine to Accelerator I'm also against that because Kakine shouldn't really scale to Accelerator especially if we're talking about the first two fights they had. I mean the first fight Kakine was able to fight on par due to DM being able to bypass vector field at first and Accelerator holding back and in the second fight it was down to Kakine's high regenerative abilities and him playing mind games.

Kakine should be more powerful than all other level 5's bar Accelerator though and I think the highest stat is Mikoto's 7-C unless there's going to be a change to her stats or something.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Just caught up with GT and know some GT7 spoilers but won't spoil. So basically these transcendent like Alice are like magic gods but more on the destructive side. Alice seems very OP as well being able to change reality to how she sees fit basically.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Btw. technically Rensa shouldn't have keys, right?

Anyone know an elegant way to handle the stats section?

 

[Scrlk666777]

Btw. technically Rensa shouldn't have keys, right?

Anyone know an elegant way to handle the stats section?

What are we doing for Rensa? Are we giving the stats she has primarily in the part she appears in which would mimic Accelerator's post Aiwass key stats or are we giving her the post 545 stats minus PW?

 

[DontTalkDT]

She would get the stats of the part she appeared in.

Edit: Btw. should Rensa technically have Sub-Relativistic Reactions in every key? Or do you think the abilities influence her reactions?

 

[Scrlk666777]

I would say so I mean Kakine has already been upgraded to Sub-Rel so it wouldn't make any sense not to have Rensa at that level of reaction speed as well in her key.

 

[Scrlk666777]

About Rensa's key maybe we can have

8-B, with Meltdowner, 8-C, with railgun, 7-C, with lightning strikes, High 6-C with vector manipulation, higher with Black wings and even higher with white wings?

I didn't add Kakine's in because I disagree with his stats because I don't believe there is just cause of giving him a 7-B or a High 6-C rating at all. I also don't know if the varies is going to stick or not.

 

[XDragnoir]

Btw. technically Rensa shouldn't have keys, right?

Anyone know an elegant way to handle the stats section?

Varies.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Varies.

Varies is for stuff without a specific value. We do have specific values here.

 

[XDragnoir]

Then we can go with.

9C physically, 8B with Meltdowner, 8A with Railgun, H6C with Accelerator.

 

[Scrlk666777]

If spoilers are true Alice might be getting a proper tier rather than unknown. I won't spoil though because this is just a spoiler I saw but want to wait for the translation to see if it bodes true or not.

 

[XDragnoir]

If spoilers are true Alice might be getting a proper tier rather than unknown. I won't spoil though because this is just a spoiler I saw but want to wait for the translation to see if it bodes true or not.

What was the spoiler?

 

[XDragnoir]

Anyway, i think we can safely give a tier to Alice's summons now, but her true power keeps being a mystery even if it's being constantly hinted to be Magic God tier or higher.

 

[Scrlk666777]

What was the spoiler?

The spoiler I read was that Alice destroys IT but it was in fact one of her creations/summons that did though wouldn't that still be classed at Alice's power?

 

[XDragnoir]

Ehhhh

I would have to read again but i had the impression IT destroyed her summon and then disappeared naturally as it always does.

As for it being her power... Yes and no, it's one of her powers not the the entire thing

 

[Scrlk666777]

oops I meant IB not IT though both seem to be gone at the moment and Touma is now missing his right arm. It has not regrew back from what I can see but might have to re-read. So it's still her power I mean it being one of her powers doesn't change the fact that it's still one of Alice's powers.

 

[XDragnoir]

oops I meant IB not IT though both seem to be gone at the moment and Touma is now missing his right arm. It has not regrew back from what I can see but might have to re-read.

Idk if you have finished reading it but Touma uses IB after the fight so his arm has regrown without a doubt.

So it's still her power I mean it being one of her powers doesn't change the fact that it's still one of Alice's powers.

Yes, that's what i said.

I think Alice's profile will still have a lot of Unknowns as we have no idea how her true power works, tho.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Tbh not much was shown in terms of alice this volume besides maybe some thrown around statements. But so far the only one I see with a possibility of magic God level is Alice from being able to create impossible outcomes, stuff like that. We will probably see what she can really do next volume...but dang can't even tell what to think of the gryphon either.

I'm really curious on Alice capabilities


I did look up and I also don't agree with the magic God hype being thrown about. Especially with all the context heavy stuff. Even them being able to take down a full power magic God seems sussy to me besides Alice. Even someone like Othinus

 

[XDragnoir]

But so far the only one I see with a possibility of magic God level is Alice from being able to create impossible outcomes, stuff like that.

Yeah, Alice's true power so far is the only thing that actually looks like MG level.

Tho, as all of them have the support of a Secret Chief somehow this may change in the future.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Huh, didn't know that there was a discussion thread for ToAru around here. Nice. Well, back to me reading Astral Buddy and Railgun manga to find feats for the low-tiers! ... should probably check out the Accel and Dark Matter manga as well. Maybe that Mental Out manga too, but that's for later.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Finally finished GT 7.

What changes are concerned, we just have Alice stuff, I think.
I think we can remove the likely from Alice's teleport, given the closed door bathroom scene.

This was Alice Anotherbible.
The blonde girl of around 12 looked like she had stepped right out of a children’s book.
What was she doing here!? How had she gotten in!? The front door and the bathroom’s door were both locked! Sure, their first meeting had been similar, but he couldn’t accept something so absurd just because there was a precedent!!!

Fear manip from.

The young butler’s gaze lowered to young Alice.
She silently and emotionlessly tilted her head.
And she spoke.
“What. Is. He. Talking. About?”


“Gasp!?”
Kamijou opened his eyes.
He shook his head several times and stood up.
Only then did he realize he had been collapsed on the grass.
(What? Eh? Wait. What happened? What in the world just happened!?)
He checked his old folk’s smartphone to find time had skipped forward by about 10 minutes.
No.
What had happened immediately after Alice Anotherbible spoke in such a low voice? Kamijou at least seemed to have lost consciousness at that point.
He took a look around.
H. T. Trismegistus had seemed so above it all, but he had fallen onto his rear with his cane a good distance away from him. Where it had come from was a mystery, but in his panic, he had produced an entirely useless life jacket which he clutched in his arms like a stuffed animal.
For some reason, Good, Old Mary was trying not to look in that direction.
After sensing a tremor shaking and a sweet aroma, Kamijou realized Aradia was holding onto him from the side. Just like a small child afraid to let go of her teddy bear after having a nightmare.
Index and Othinus had to be around there somewhere. Probably doing their best to hide in one of the large garden’s flower beds or shrubberies.
Alice alone remained on her feet.
Her head was still tilted and she spoke in her usual tone again.
“You were saying?”
“Yes! Yes!! We’re all good friends here!! Common sense says we would never be so rude to an important guest!!”
The young butler’s voice was cracking.

Either Telekinesis or explosion manipulation from this (not sure)

“That’s enough. This is already over. So you need to calm down and-”
“No.”
A dull popping sound followed.
But it was wetter than an explosive going off.
The young girl hadn’t even directed her small palm in that direction. She hadn’t even glanced that way.
But Trismegistus was still launched from the ground. His already injured body twisted further in midair, crashed helplessly back to the ground, and kept rolling.

Probably some Immortality Type 2 for this?

He directed his right fist toward her.
There was a dull cracking sound, but not from his fist.
It came from Alice Anotherbible’s tilted head. The angle of the tilt had passed a certain threshold. Her thin neck continued making strange cracking noises, but no hint of pain was visible on her face.
She spoke from that abnormal angle and from the noh mask that seemed entirely devoid of life.

Her resistances can get additions for illnesses and bugs.

Also, her body was immune to bacteria, bugs, curses, and all other forms of internal damage, both scientific and magical. As for external damage, she would always remain unscathed thanks to the hedgehogs and flamingo protecting her. Moreover, this didn’t come from a fear of shedding blood. She protected herself that way because if anything obstructed her actions, she might get angry and kill someone.

And of course the Gryphon as summon.

Anything else?

 

[XDragnoir]

Hmm, i think we could give a tier to the Gryphon, due to it's size it's without a doubt 9B.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Not sure... But on the topic of telekiness or explosion manip, I think it is better to assume the latter instead of the former. It just seems like it is an explosion to me, but could be wrong.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Hmm, i think we could give a tier to the Gryphon, due to it's size it's without a doubt 9B.

Mmmmaybe. I'm not 100% sure, because flying animals tend to be a lot lighter than non-flying ones. E.g. a Pterosaur with 9m wingspan weighs only about 250kg.

Not sure... But on the topic of telekiness or explosion manip, I think it is better to assume the latter instead of the former. It just seems like it is an explosion to me, but could be wrong.

I guess explosion would work.

 

[XDragnoir]

Mmmmaybe. I'm not 100% sure, because flying animals tend to be a lot lighter than non-flying ones. E.g. a Pterosaur with 9m wingspan weighs only about 250kg.

A Gryphon's body isn't entirely avian tho, and this is the description we got for it:

Overall, it reminded him of a hawk or eagle, but that was no bird. When his eyes finally managed to focus again, he realized he was pinned down by a lithe body covered in feline muscles.

Hadn’t Alice mentioned a gryphon?

He estimated it was more than 7m long. The spread wings made it look nearly three times as large. A lion was 2.5m and a Siberian tiger could reach 3m, so how strong was this beast!?

With the above descriptions i think it's clear it's body is more feline than avian and that it's strength is above the animals it was compared.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Zup, folks! ... Hm. Anybody here that can help me make a scaling chain for the verse? For the "non-superhuman" cast members (I.e, folks like Touma, Kuroko, or basically anybody who is 9-C & 9-B in the verse.) Just gotta make one more user-blog for LS, I also might have to make a user blog to help prove that 9-A isn't an outliner (but probably won't have to), then I can make my verse-wide revision for the verse.

 

[XDragnoir]

Hmmm

The best i think we can do is find out who scales above and who scales below Touma, i doubt there will be a scaling chain with more details than that.