Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[XDragnoir]

Spoiler: GT9's Profile Changes

Touma-wise, I'd say we can either give him a new key but IMO the Dragon King and IT are pretty much the same thing, with DK being the full manifestation. Also, new key should be called Dragon Lord as that's the name Kamachi used in the afterword.

This was the 2nd time Aleister used Great Demon mode and this time he added Aiwass as well, guess it's time for a new key for him.

Alice's Cricket Bat will scale to whatever CRC scales and we can finally give her something like 9C physicals as she was removing entire chunks of CRC's body, including bones.

Kazakiri and Qliphah should get energy absorption and stats amps as explained by CRC.

Slightly less related to GT9, do y'all think we should have a civilization profile for Academy City? Just something I was thinking the other day

 

[Aseka]

Spoiler: GT9's Profile Changes

Touma-wise, I'd say we can either give him a new key but IMO the Dragon King and IT are pretty much the same thing, with DK being the full manifestation. Also, new key should be called Dragon Lord as that's the name Kamachi used in the afterword.

This was the 2nd time Aleister used Great Demon mode and this time he added Aiwass as well, guess it's time for a new key for him.

Alice's Cricket Bat will scale to whatever CRC scales and we can finally give her something like 9C physicals as she was removing entire chunks of CRC's body, including bones.

Kazakiri and Qliphah should get energy absorption and stats amps as explained by CRC.

Slightly less related to GT9, do y'all think we should have a civilization profile for Academy City? Just something I was thinking the other day

New key for Aleister and more abilities of phase's shifting (BFR and Pocket Dimension)

 

[XDragnoir]

Before a thread is actually created to discuss the topic, what y'all think we should do with the 5B stats (and to a lesser extent, possible changes to H1C stats).

I already have a proposal in mind, maybe it's even a controversial one, but having more ideas is always good.

 

[GunTish]

I think a lot would be solved if we just assume that ever since NT12, Kamachi has the double nerfed Magic Gods in mind when making comparison. Especially since he does make a distinction when he's talking about them at full power. Like when it was said that you would need an attack from a full power MG to destroy Coronzon's barrier.

 

[Aseka]

I think a lot would be solved if we just assume that ever since NT12, Kamachi has the double nerfed Magic Gods in mind when making comparison. Especially since he does make a distinction when he's talking about them at full power. Like when it was said that you would need an attack from a full power MG to destroy Coronzon's barrier.

But didn't they go through nerf twice already? First is the Zombie spell and the second is Aleister's spell.

 

[GunTish]

But didn't they go through nerf twice already? First is the Zombie spell and the second is Aleister's spell.

Yes, I'm saying that all statements comparing someone to the Magic Gods after NT12 is probably referring to their double nerfed state, unless specified otherwise.

For example, if we were to give a rating to Aradia based on the statements about her being able to one shot a Magic God, it would be 5-B rather than High 1-C.

“This is what it means to receive triple the blessing of your own good deeds. Hee hee. And that triple can be stacked on top of itself as many times as necessary. Give me the chance and it will snowball far beyond anything you can handle. All I have to do is perform good deeds throughout my everyday life – or set things up so my actions are interpreted that way – and my power will eventually grow to the point that I can one-shot a Magic God or a Transcendent.”

Whereas Coronzon's temple would be High 1-C, because the text made it clear that it would need an attack from a full power Magic God to break.

“You mean we can’t break through that without enough power to destroy an entire world?”
“You would need a theoretical max-value Magic God attack, or…”

But that's just my opinion. There hasn't been any word from Kamachi mentioning that their nerfed state would be the new basis for all comparisons. It's just what I think makes the most sense.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I think a lot would be solved if we just assume that ever since NT12, Kamachi has the double nerfed Magic Gods in mind when making comparison. Especially since he does make a distinction when he's talking about them at full power. Like when it was said that you would need an attack from a full power MG to destroy Coronzon's barrier.

I mean, that's of course an option to consider. I'm spontaneously not sure if it would influence anyone's stats, though.
Like, for the Transcendents the issue is mostly solved by their killing magic gods things mostly just being via hax anyways.

Before a thread is actually created to discuss the topic, what y'all think we should do with the 5B stats (and to a lesser extent, possible changes to H1C stats).

I already have a proposal in mind, maybe it's even a controversial one, but having more ideas is always good.

Unless maybe we decide not to do the invisible thing scaling, I think it would be hard to avoid for many of the characters.
Well, I suppose one could possibly consider some things being special techniques alone, although I'm spontanously not sure for who that would and would not work.

 

[XDragnoir]

Like, for the Transcendents the issue is mostly solved by their killing magic gods things mostly just being via hax anyways.

Ehhh, I wouldn't even say that solves the issue because I think in practice the issue just doesn't exist.

Just like the Golden Dawn members, the Transcendents are stated to be able to fight with MGs, even Gungnir Othinus for the matter so it's clearly not limited to the weaker MGs, but then we have an absolute void of info how exactly each member should do that.

The only one who got that statement directly iirc was Aradia tho and she does it via AP.

 

[Piamma]

Yes, I'm saying that all statements comparing someone to the Magic Gods after NT12 is probably referring to their double nerfed state, unless specified otherwise.

For example, if we were to give a rating to Aradia based on the statements about her being able to one shot a Magic God, it would be 5-B rather than High 1-C.


Whereas Coronzon's temple would be High 1-C, because the text made it clear that it would need an attack from a full power Magic God to break.


But that's just my opinion. There hasn't beeㅏn any word from Kamachi mentioning that their nerfed state would be the new basis for all comparisons. It's just what I think makes the most sense.

However, I think it is a little too much to consolidate into 5-B even characters such as Tris, Mary who have already come out as capable of creating or compressing and destroying a single universe. And I think it is possible to extend Transcendents through them.

Sure, it's all based on Risk4

 

[Piamma]

Ehhh, I wouldn't even say that solves the issue because I think in practice the issue just doesn't exist.

Just like the Golden Dawn members, the Transcendents are stated to be able to fight with MGs, even Gungnir Othinus for the matter so it's clearly not limited to the weaker MGs, but then we have an absolute void of info how exactly each member should do that.

The only one who got that statement directly iirc was Aradia tho and she does it via AP.

In GT6's Afterword , this doesn't mean they were able to fight full power Othinus.

They were hesitant to play their one and only secret card, and in the end, they were all killed by Othinus' world destruction.
if they killed Othinus in the Black Labyrinth, they could never create a world again.

In order for them to fight Othinus, they must first stop or offset the world-destroying Mg's attack and survive the Black Labyrinth, but we already know that's impossible from the Gt6 afterwords and Nt10.

I don't know how those afterwords were translated into English, but I can provide the original Japanese text.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ehhh, I wouldn't even say that solves the issue because I think in practice the issue just doesn't exist.

Just like the Golden Dawn members, the Transcendents are stated to be able to fight with MGs, even Gungnir Othinus for the matter so it's clearly not limited to the weaker MGs, but then we have an absolute void of info how exactly each member should do that.

The only one who got that statement directly iirc was Aradia tho and she does it via AP.

That's basically what I mean.
Aradia does it via "AP", but that's via her infinite power stacking hax.
And the Succubus would in all likelihood use her Cold Mistress spell.
And Mut Thebes is almost certainly via sufficient absorption, as that's just all she does.
None of their techniques apply to their regular stats or would scale to characters who beat them.

 

[Hizack123]

Spoiler: GT9's Profile Changes

Touma-wise, I'd say we can either give him a new key but IMO the Dragon King and IT are pretty much the same thing, with DK being the full manifestation. Also, new key should be called Dragon Lord as that's the name Kamachi used in the afterword.

This was the 2nd time Aleister used Great Demon mode and this time he added Aiwass as well, guess it's time for a new key for him.

Alice's Cricket Bat will scale to whatever CRC scales and we can finally give her something like 9C physicals as she was removing entire chunks of CRC's body, including bones.

Kazakiri and Qliphah should get energy absorption and stats amps as explained by CRC.

Slightly less related to GT9, do y'all think we should have a civilization profile for Academy City? Just something I was thinking the other day

Nice

 

[XDragnoir]

That's basically what I mean.
Aradia does it via "AP", but that's via her infinite power stacking hax.

It's through Triple Reload'd stat amping her, that's not what I'd call via hax.

I was discussing this with Fanta and it seems Aradia is somewhere in tier 9 physically and can amp to either 5B or H1C AP with Triple Reload.

And the Succubus would in all likelihood use her Cold Mistress spell.

Yeah, I think we haven't her Risk 4 so that's the most likely answer so far.

And Mut Thebes is almost certainly via sufficient absorption, as that's just all she does.

Yeah, that's also the likely answer, maybe in her specific case she needs to absorb the power of another Transcendent who could fight MGs themselves.

None of their techniques apply to their regular stats or would scale to characters who beat them.

Yeah, it's only in the specific case of taking their MG level spell that someone could scale, but I don't think anyone in-verse has actually done that.

 

[Aseka]

Anyone have feats regarding Low-Godly Regeneration of Gabriel and Qliphah?

 

[Churronzon]

My guess; they are a physical existence most of the time but can regenerate from esoteric energy (Telesma). Thus, low godly

 

[XDragnoir]

Anyone have feats regarding Low-Godly Regeneration of Gabriel and Qliphah?

Gabriel's comes from when he exploded after Acqua drained his telesma.

Qliphah's doesn't come from a specific quote, iirc, it comes from the fact she doesn't have a body to begin with.

Indeed, it has already been explained to us that angels and demons don't have a physical body to begin with and only possess one when interacting with our world.

 

[Aseka]

Indeed, it has already been explained to us that angels and demons don't have a physical body to begin with and only possess one when interacting with our world.

I do not know about demons have the same trait as angels about regenerating from energy, or do we treat them as the same?

 

[Aseka]

Also, should we add that to Coronzon too? I see her profile doesn't have regen.

 

[XDragnoir]

I do not know about demons have the same trait as angels about regenerating from energy, or do we treat them as the same?

You're misunderstanding, they're not regenerating from energy, the regen comes from their soul.

Also, should we add that to Coronzon too? I see her profile doesn't have regen.

If you want to, you'd just have to find the quotes cause I don't have them atm.

I'd suggest to ctrl+f the words angel and demon across all NT books to find them, but iirc all the relevant statements come from late NT so that's at least a start.

 

[Aseka]

You're misunderstanding, they're not regenerating from energy, the regen comes from their soul.

Their soul you mean their essence? Because it's the only thing I got.

I'd suggest to ctrl+f the words angel and demon across all NT books to find them, but iirc all the relevant statements come from late NT so that's at least a start.

I got a quote from Kanzaki SS thay says angels and demons are just a being of mass of energy that reside on another phase.

 

[Aseka]

Magicians too could create the physical body that acted as the container for the soul without understanding its workings.
That was known as a magical life form.
They were not life forms in the same way as masses of some kind of energy that existed in a different phase space such as angels and demons. Magical life forms were either subspecies created by a magician applying some kind of process to organic material or occasionally a brand-new species created from only inorganic material. There was a seemingly unending variety of forms they could take.

 

[XDragnoir]

Their soul you mean their essence? Because it's the only thing I got.

Essences aren't elaborated on after OT (afaik) but it also helps, the main thing tho is that Telesma (be it angelic or demonic) is literally their soul.

 

[XDragnoir]

Spoiler: GT9's Profile Changes

Touma-wise, I'd say we can either give him a new key but IMO the Dragon King and IT are pretty much the same thing, with DK being the full manifestation. Also, new key should be called Dragon Lord as that's the name Kamachi used in the afterword.

This was the 2nd time Aleister used Great Demon mode and this time he added Aiwass as well, guess it's time for a new key for him.

Alice's Cricket Bat will scale to whatever CRC scales and we can finally give her something like 9C physicals as she was removing entire chunks of CRC's body, including bones.

Kazakiri and Qliphah should get energy absorption and stats amps as explained by CRC.

To add some things that Alice is missing:

We have to discuss how we will index her strange resurrection works.

The AP of her offensive summons (not sure Executioner has anything notable, but Gryphon probably does).

GT6 has a statement that people get trapped in her mind if they read it.

Not sure we can do something with it RN but she did interrupt Tris' and Mary's final clash.

She is stated to resist any internal damage, magic or science related, we should add/list that she resists the forms of internal damage that were shown in-verse and that she would therefore resist.

 

[Axscell]

Bit off topic, but I came across some interesting quotes related to Coronzon, that could point to her true self potentially being an actual higher dimensional being (1B?).

"Then what about Coronzon herself as she enjoys this game of Mutual Destruction Old
Maid? Do you think there is a symbol of destruction that forms a pair with her?"

[...]

Coronzon could take everything in this world and set up a cross-counter of their weak
points to ensure mutual destruction. But what about Coronzon herself as she peered into
the toy box of the world and stuck her hands inside to set things up as she liked? Even if
they overturned the toy box, could they really find something with equal power to her that
would form a pair with her?

"..."

Kamijou Touma looked down at his right arm.

That arm was now incomplete and it lacked the hand that symbolized Imagine Breaker.

"No." Index shook her head. "That isn't what I mean, Touma. Even if you still had your
right hand's power, that is still something inside the toy box of the world. That does not
match Coronzon who is viewing it all from a step removed."

"This is sounding rather grim." First Princess Riméa sighed. "Then what about that
insolent word that we keep hearing lately: god? There were the Divine Mixtures, two
Magic Gods have been frequently spotted in Scotland, and I believe that one on the boy's
shoulder counts as well."

"That won't work." Index looked at the spiky-haired boy who reflexively tried to protect
his small understander with his nonexistent right hand and got his ear pulled on instead.

"The word demon contains a few different meanings: The dark side of the human mind,
a fallen angel, and a pagan god. I do not think the Magic Gods we have seen would form
a clean pair with Great Demon Coronzon. The Divine Mixtures rely on Egyptian and Greek
mythology, so they are out for the same reason. They would have some power, but not
enough for a direct conflict."

"Then what are we supposed to do?" carefully asked Third Princess Villian while glancing
over at her mother's equipment. "We can use Curtana to draw out the power of an angel
and guide everyone using that while inside British territory. But as disrespectful as it
might sound, that doesn't get any more powerful than an archangel. It isn't an absolute
good capable of matching an absolute evil."

[...]

"It is no use, human. Even if she had some way of reducing her original sin, Aleister is still
a human living in this world. That does not escape the toy box that Index mentioned. It
does not give us what we need."

Then.

Then what?

"I see. So that's it," said Aleister. "It has to be someone from outside the world. And not
just that, but someone who can wield miracles because they are void of original sin. In
that case, I only know of one candidate. Is that what this is about, Aiwass!?"

"No." The silver girl shook her head. "Given the situation, a direct clash between Holy
Guardian Angel Aiwass and Great Demon Coronzon would likely end in Coronzon's
victory. Although the avatar issue would play a role there. So that is not the point here.
Aiwass merely prepared the answer."

"Then who else is there?"

Aleister did not answer Kamijou’s question.

She had already found the answer, but something seemed to be holding her back.

Her face was twisted by anguish.

[...]

This was the final key.

This was the expendable that could annihilate Coronzon.

"That truly is an immaculate white light."

Queen Elizard frowned and looked down at Curtana Second in her own hands. She was
the queen protected by the United Kingdom's entire system, but she may have felt inferior
to that baby.

"Is that an innocent soul uncorrupted by original sin?"

"There is precedent. For example, it is said the Virgin Mary had her original sin removed
before the Last Judgment."

[...]

"It is only a possibility, but this soul was protected by Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass and
wandered within a different phase for more than a century. This is not a case of the sin
being removed. You could say that this soul belongs to somewhere other than this surface
world. Great Demon Coronzon escaped from the card table, so there is no being who can
form a pair with her. Except for this opposing factor here."

This is all rather vague of course, and could definitely do with some further elaboration (hopefully) on her true self in the future before any significant changes are enacted, but it does make for some interesting read on Coronzon and Toaru's cosmology as a whole.

 

[XDragnoir]

Bit off topic, but I came across some interesting quotes related to Coronzon, that could point to her true self potentially being an actual higher dimensional being (1B?).



This is all rather vague of course, and could definitely do with some further elaboration (hopefully) on her true self in the future before any significant changes are enacted, but it does make for some interesting read on Coronzon and Toaru's cosmology as a whole.

Yeah, I think we've had some discussions about higher levels of existence before and well, IMO the conclusion is always the same:

There is something, it just hasn't been explained enough to start to index it in the wiki.

And for real, with all the discussions we had here and others things I've seen outside the wiki, it seems everyone who reads Toaru has their own interpretation of the cosmology and that's not good for indexing purposes.

 

[Churronzon]

it seems everyone who reads Toaru has their own interpretation of the cosmology

Othinus nuked Ein Sof and the Pure World

 

[XDragnoir]

Othinus nuked Ein Sof and the Pure World

this is completely out of nowhere

Can she even affect these two? Indeed, do we know if Ein (Ain? Idk) is an actual being in Toaru?

 

[Churronzon]

Can she even affect these two? Indeed, do we know if Ein (Ain? Idk) is an actual being in Toaru?

Ain Soph is the emanator of the Sephiroth and "exists" outside it (beyond Keter). Former claim really shouldn't need a scan and the latter claim is stated in OT3.

She recognized what she had just heard. Kabbalah had the concept of the Tree of
Sephirot. It was a diagram with ten levels that divided up the positions of humans,
angels, and God. And on that Tree of Sephirot, the crucial position of God was nowhere
to be found.

Ain Soph Aur, Ain Soph, Ain.

000, 00, 0.

As God's territory could not be understood by humans and the concept could not be
expressed by humans, it was not shown on the Sephiroth.

On every diagram you can find of the Tree of Life, notice where Ain Soph is placed or isn't placed.

The Flaming Sword is drawn from Ain Soph similar to the Rota spell.

Path of the Flaming Sword - AnthroWiki

en.anthro.wiki

“The secret spell of Rota can be flipped around to make Taro, thus it can be converted into the cards that indicate the 10 spheres and the 22 pathways. Awaken, 78 cards. You are the one and only proper entrance to the light pouring down from beyond the tree – that is, the Ain Soph Aur, Ain Soph, Ain!!”

A violent white light exploded from the emptiness at the center of the card circle.

A beam of light sharper than a razor scorched the air as it rushed toward Kamijou’s right arm. The all-destroying dragon maw was split in two. While he was dragged around by the chaotically thrashing dragon, even more blood gushed from the boy’s shoulder.

If Kamachi were to follow Ain Soph accurately then it would not even be a being to begin with which perfectly explains why no such "proper" introduction is made.

Since I'm infodumping, here's what Coronzon and Heaven Canceller's rants were likely referring to.

“Of course. My job is to fix the circulation. And that creates the next age. Once, the
majority of the Sephirah were under attack. If the Second Adam had not atoned with
blood, the world would not have lasted this long. And the critical clogs are all born of
knowledge.

"THE NAME" is the Tetragrammaton, Y-H-V-H, placed alongside the Flaming sword barrier ("FLASHING SWORD").

“I see. You mean the flaming sword barrier.”

“Hm?”

“You should know more about the flaming sword than me, Allan Bennett.”

[...]

“In the Golden cabal, it is a symbol of the sword placed alongside the Tetragrammaton to
protect the top three Sephirah of the Sephiroth after the sin of Adam and Eve spread
across the world. It separates and cuts bonds in order to protect. Crowley’s equivalency
table explains exactly what kind of offensive power it provides. Your own student wrote
that, did he not?”

Crowley's correspondence table, Liber 777, just repeated that the Flaming Sword travels down the four worlds and cuts the bonds of the target directly. Still don't know what the latter means.

And here's the other pure elements. Gabriel would use NELAPR it seems.

---

Think of it this way: Ain Soph nerfing itself and undergoing the self-limitation of tzimtzum created existence. Magic Gods nerfing themselves killed themselves.

To answer your other question, maybe I'll try going in depth later on how the destruction of the Pure World would lead to the absolute destruction of all creation (most certainly the mundane creation of Assiah), and yet a mechanism would still allow life to reemerge. For now, if Coronzon's ceremony which destroys all of creation includes the Sephiroth, how would that do anything to Ain who is outside it?

 

[XDragnoir]

Ain Soph is the emanator of the Sephiroth and "exists" outside it (beyond Keter). Former claim really shouldn't need a scan and the latter claim is stated in OT3.

On every diagram you can find of the Tree of Life, notice where Ain Soph is placed or isn't placed.

The Flaming Sword is drawn from Ain Soph similar to the Rota spell.

Path of the Flaming Sword - AnthroWiki

en.anthro.wiki

If Kamachi were to follow Ain Soph accurately then it would not even be a being to begin with which perfectly explains why no such "proper" introduction is made.

Since I'm infodumping, here's what Coronzon and Heaven Canceller's rants were likely referring to.

"THE NAME" is the Tetragrammaton, Y-H-V-H, placed alongside the Flaming sword barrier ("FLASHING SWORD").

Crowley's correspondence table, Liber 777, just repeated that the Flaming Sword travels down the four worlds and cuts the bonds of the target directly. Still don't know what the latter means.

And here's the other pure elements. Gabriel would use NELAPR it seems.

---

Think of it this way: Ain Soph nerfing itself and undergoing the self-limitation of tzimtzum created existence. Magic Gods nerfing themselves killed themselves.

That's cool but that's 90% based on the real life version rather than how it is in Toaru (which is the only one we can use).

And that didn't answer the question if Othinus can affect Ain Soph.

 

[Churronzon]

And that didn't answer the question if Othinus can affect Ain Soph.

I edited my post at the bottom. Idk how else to help you if it's not enough tbh

 

[XDragnoir]

To answer your other question, maybe I'll try going in depth later on how the destruction of the Pure World would lead to the absolute destruction of all creation (most certainly the mundane creation of Assiah), and yet a mechanism would still allow life to reemerge. For now, if Coronzon's ceremony which destroys all of creation includes the Sephiroth, how would that do anything to Ain who is outside it?

Bro, you said Othinus nuked the Pure World and Ain Soph so I was asking about where you got that from, this right here doesn't relate to Othinus.

Isn't the whole deal about MGs that they can't directly affect the Pure World?

 

[Churronzon]

I was being sarcastic sorry.

That's cool but that's 90% based on the real life version rather than how it is in Toaru (which is the only one we can use).

Pure elements are directly the same. Second Adam sacrificing himself to save the Sephirotic system after the sin of Adam and Eve spread across the world is directly almost(woops) the same. Ain Soph being beyond Keter is directly the same. Rota spell being drawn from Ain Soph Aur is actually just from Toaru, not even an outside source. Cutting the bonds of the target is directly the same. Flaming Sword being placed alongside the Tetragrammaton is directly the same. "THE NAME" being the Tetragrammaton, YHVH, is directly the same. Tell me where you pulled 90% from. In Toaru and Liber 777, Flaming sword is only stated as following the path from the top 3 Sephirah (not Ain Soph); I'll grant you that.

---

The correspondence, 0

 

[XDragnoir]

I was being sarcastic sorry.

Pure elements are directly the same. Second Adam sacrificing himself to save the Sephirotic system is directly almost(woops) the same. Ain Soph being beyond Keter is directly the same. Cutting the bonds of the target is directly the same. Tell me where you pulled 90% from. In Toaru and Liber 777, Flaming sword is only stated as following the path from the top 3 Sephirah (not Ain Soph); I'll grant you that.

The correspondence, 0

Not really what I meant, even if it's a 1:1 with an IRL religion, belief, book, or whatever, we can't use info from the IRL one that isn't directly added to the story for scaling.

When I said 90% I meant your post had just a few Toaru quotes, meaning only those could be used for scaling purposes.

Anyway, I am not exactly sure how other verses do it across the wiki, but I think we are at best allowed to use IRL info to support something the in-verse info already points to.

Like here for example:

If Kamachi were to follow Ain Soph accurately then it would not even be a being to begin with which perfectly explains why no such "proper" introduction is made.

Ain Soph (or Ain Soph Aur, idk which one is meant to be God) was never actually brought up as the creator of Toaruverse, so until then we can't use any of that to scale it as the creator.

 

[Churronzon]

Sorry I didn't make it clear, especially since the topic you brought up was about indexing stuff. I do not care in the slightest about using outside material for indexing or scaling purposes. I only wanted to provide what I had found.

 

[XDragnoir]

Sorry I didn't make it clear, especially since the topic you brought up was about indexing stuff. I do not care in the slightest about using outside material for indexing or scaling purposes. I only wanted to provide what I had found.

That's fair, it's good to have the places Kamachi uses to get his ideas for the verse on, it may help us a lot if we ever get to the point of reworking the cosmology in the wiki in the future.

Or maybe close enough, we've just had Touma's full power released, Accel technically became a nearly-god tier 10 volumes ago, Secret Chiefs are being brought up constantly and are even being indirectly important to the plot (Aiwass aside).

 

[Churronzon]

Does the last paragraph remind anyone of anything. (If it's even readable)

 

[Churronzon]

Does the last paragraph remind anyone of anything. (If it's even readable)

For me; it was this:

"Alchemy isn't only about "chemistry" or turning base metals to gold. The medieval philosophers and alchemists knew this -- even Isaac newton knew it -- but their knowledge was lost until Crowley brought it back. You see, alchemy actually speaks to internal processes, and a radical revolution in our spiritual development: transforming the "base metal" of primitive man to the "gold" of an enlightened soul. Rockets and magick are both about breaking through the animal boundaries of space and time that hold us back from realizing our potential."
(It's from The Secret History of Twin Peaks, not IRL. well the concept is...)

---

[Toaru] High 1-C Aleister dura

Before getting onto a GT9 CRT which would give Aleister a new key, this will be a small thread for a tiering upgrade that has a direct feat and statements. Tiering change: Aleister's AP is already at least High 1-C with Blasting Rod. I'm looking to apply the same to his dura with Blasting Rod...

vsbattles.com

 

[ToaruCounterfeitCRC]

Othinus nuked Ein Sof and the Pure World

Given how NT22 seems to indicate that Pure World is just the foundational layer of all other phases, and how this statement would imply Pure World to be also a phase, just not a magical one, then the description of Gungnir crushing the wall of all phases would imply Othinus, indeed, nuked Pure World.

Ein Sof is completely an unknowable entity though. The magic drawn from it at least overwhelmed the Dragon King, so it scales to whatever Dragon King scales to at the minimum.

 

[Churronzon]

Yeah it is called a phase in NT22R as well. I just don't think it’s enough evidence to contradict what we learned from Coronzon's ceremony.

Given how NT22 seems to indicate that Pure World is just the foundational layer of all other phases, and how this statement would imply Pure World to be also a phase, just not a magical one, then the description of Gungnir crushing the wall of all phases would imply Othinus, indeed, nuked Pure World.

So are we subscribing to the idea that destroying the pure world would or wouldn't destroy the higher sephirah?

Ein Sof is completely an unknowable entity though. The magic drawn from it at least overwhelmed the Dragon King, so it scales to whatever Dragon King scales to at the minimum.

Ain would outscale Coronzon’s ceremony.

 

[XDragnoir]

So are we subscribing to the idea that destroying the pure world would or wouldn't destroy the higher sephirah?

I don't get the question, isn't the Ceremony of Mo Athair's entire deal exactly that?

Like, saying it wouldn't is pretty going against the plot.

Othinus destroying it tho... Strange, it's just really strange as I don't recall any statement directly saying she did or didn't affect it during NT9.