Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[DontTalkDT]

Wait a moment... Is that actually enough to get a High 1-C rating? Like, it seems Touma thought it would work against full-power Othinus, which considering his history with her means that there is actual merit behind it, but it doesn't actual confirm that it would work against True Magic Gods (Full-Power) to the point that even Touma thought that there had to be more.

Which was right on the mark.


Aleister needed the help of the A.A.A (while piloted by Kihara Noukan) and Aiwass to actually cut down a Magic God, who was actual serious and not messing around, - and even then, didn't that require the set up of having the Magic Gods to nerf themselves and for Aleister to nerf them again? Zombie is an unknown factor here, but judging on how quickly High Priest died, if Aleister was fast enough to nerf Zombie he could've killed her in a quick draw via his magic, Noukan w/AAA, Aiwass fighting, or a mix of all three at the same time.

... Actually, now that I think about it - doesn't this make Aleister's feat of killing two Magic Gods less impressive in the slight that he (likely) could only kill them while they were in a doubly weakened state?

The blasting rod is highly situational. It can't just go tier 1 at any moment. He couldn't oneshot a MG with it without a plan. He basically has to convince them that it is on their level first, after all. As your quote even says: The blasting rod theoretically works, but practically pulling it off with just that is difficult.

In general the fight against the nerfed MGs isn't a good measuring stick for Aleister's power, though. It's pretty unclear why Aleister couldn't just drop a Big Bang Bomb on them, as that would clearly have been vastly stronger than them. I mean, when he send Noukan it was because he couldn't be bothered, but in the fight against Niang Niang it's unclear.
Basically, the fight either has PIS or unknown factors in it.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

The blasting rod is highly situational. It can't just go tier 1 at any moment. He couldn't oneshot a MG with it without a plan. He basically has to convince them that it is on their level first, after all. As your quote even says: The blasting rod theoretically works, but practically pulling it off with just that is difficult.

In general the fight against the nerfed MGs isn't a good measuring stick for Aleister's power, though. It's pretty unclear why Aleister couldn't just drop a Big Bang Bomb on them, as that would clearly have been vastly stronger than them. I mean, when he send Noukan it was because he couldn't be bothered, but in the fight against Niang Niang it's unclear.
Basically, the fight either has PIS or unknown factors in it.

Hm, could the onion thing that was mentioned in NT 12 be the reason why Aleister couldn't drop a Big Bang Bomb on Niang Niang?

"The Voodoo Zombie did an excellent job. I'm sure of it now that I've walked around the area a bit. The spell has adapted to our bodies, so now we can move through the world without breaking it."

"Nee hee hee. Splitting up our power like opposing mirrors, huh?"

Niang-Niang laughed like a mischievous child. She wore a short white China dress and had a distinctive charm attached to her forehead which she poked at with her index finger.

"By infinitely dividing our infinite power, we've kept ourselves at a level just barely low enough for this world to contain. …But in a way, this is the worst possible transformation, don't you think? You could just keep killing and killing us without end. Like a matryoshka doll or an onion, you would have to fight a nearly eternal battle to completely kill us."

[-]

"Kah kah!! It is merely a matter of sooner or later, but are you that intent on putting it off until later!? That's fine, though. I will go along with your games, our sheath and our scorer. You will become our as-yet unseen seventh path and the physical form of our formless peace of mind. My power as a Magic God is currently limited and I only retain one thin layer of the power piled up like the infinite layers of an onion or matryoshka doll. But infinitely dividing that infinite power still leaves me with enough power to just barely be contained in this world!!!!!"

Even if it could "kill" her, she would shrug it off unless he had the A.A.A plus Aiwass support or something along those lines? ... or Kamachi forgot about it, or just plainly ignored its existence.

Oh, and as for when he sent Noukan, couldn't the reason on why he didn't use the Big Bang Bomb right then and there was cuz he wanted to goat - and that he was recovering from his own injuries in fighting non-serious MGs at the end of NT10? Oh, and on a side note, in Aleister's profile, his H1-C AP is justified by saying he fought High Priest - and I am here, scratching my head if that actually happened, since I don't think Aleister ever actually had a one-on-one interaction with HP 'sides the nerf time and dog being sent to kill him.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Hm, could the onion thing that was mentioned in NT 12 be the reason why Aleister couldn't drop a Big Bang Bomb on Niang Niang?

[-]

Even if it could "kill" her, she would shrug it off unless he had the A.A.A plus Aiwass support or something along those lines? ... or Kamachi forgot about it, or just plainly ignored its existence.

Oh, and as for when he sent Noukan, couldn't the reason on why he didn't use the Big Bang Bomb right then and there was cuz he wanted to goat - and that he was recovering from his own injuries in fighting non-serious MGs at the end of NT10? Oh, and on a side note, in Aleister's profile, his H1-C AP is justified by saying he fought High Priest - and I am here, scratching my head if that actually happened, since I don't think Aleister ever actually had a one-on-one interaction with HP 'sides the nerf time and dog being sent to kill him.

The profile probably means the fight in the hidden world and yeah, that's not a good justification.

What the onions are concerned: I'm pretty sure the 2x nerfed MGs don't have those. They were really never mentioned after Aleister took over Zombie's spell, so I'm fairly sure he got rid of those when he applied the second nerf.
I think it's more likely that Kamachi either didn't want to deal with the big bang bomb or that the MGs, being top tier magicians in knowledge as well, just figured out a way to escape the spell. Ultimately all we know is that Aleister seemingly didn't use it.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

The profile probably means the fight in the hidden world and yeah, that's not a good justification.

What the onions are concerned: I'm pretty sure the 2x nerfed MGs don't have those. They were really never mentioned after Aleister took over Zombie's spell, so I'm fairly sure he got rid of those when he applied the second nerf.
I think it's more likely that Kamachi either didn't want to deal with the big bang bomb or that the MGs, being top tier magicians in knowledge as well, just figured out a way to escape the spell.

First out... Ye, as a minor writer myself, I am inclined to the idea of the former rather than the latter - I suppose it was bound to happen with the high-level shiz that Kamachi was tossing around.

Second, do yo got any idea if there exist any other scene that could justify a High 1-C for Aleister, or nah, and I should try to remove it?

IMO, as it stands now, with Ales only feats against the Magic Gods being their 2x nerfed selves, a very limited look at Aleister fight with them in the hidden world and dialog that supports the idea that they weren't going all out but Aleister still took notable injuries, and even Touma himself thinking that it just showed some promise of working against Othinus, but wasn't really sure if it was practical in pulling it off might be enough to nuke it from his profile.

... Will probably add it in my attempt to remove High 1-C from Accelerator due to this.

“Every number is the same. My right hand contains Nuit of Resurrection. Watch as the
possibilities expand and surpass the bounds of the finite. My left hand contains Hadit of
Vengeance. The smallest point gathers and concentrates all forces to create a single
meaning. Thus, an attack shall be released from the infinite acceleration of the Circle of
Ra-Hoor-Khuit and shall appear on the surface layer of this world.”
This was the ultimate attack that rivaled a Magic God’s lance and had utterly destroyed a
certain boy despite the presence of Imagine Breaker.

- New Testament Volume 22 Chapter 4 Part 14

This is Flaming Sword, and this is repeated exactly by the three time it is shown.

“My right hand contains Nuit of Resurrection and my left hand contains Hadit of
Vengeance. Combined, they form the Circle of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, which…”
“Yo.”
The special attack released by Great Demon Coronzon clashed head-on with the Level 5
who could manipulate any and all vectors.
“Yo!”
A mass of invisible power scattered in every direction.
No.
It was torn apart by a human will.
The woman with absurdly long blonde hair very clearly and undeniably clicked her tongue.
“Aethyr Avatar – 1: LIL, 9: ZIP, 20: KHR!!”
“Yo!! Yo!! Yoooo!!!!!”
The massive amount of blonde hair split into three groups and they complexly wove
themselves together to form three winged angels.
Accelerator had no idea what power was contained in there.
He raised his fingers like claws and swung them wildly around to tear the false angels to
shreds. If he had viewed magic as a different form of esper powers, he never could have
accomplished this. If he had made that mistaken detour in his understanding, he would
have failed to comprehend its true essence, failed to grasp the vectors, and been injured.
But he no longer viewed it that way.
That white shadow was enough of a monster already, but he now had a translucent
demon—a blatant product of the occult—by his side.
“You partially installed the power’s directionality into the calculations for your power?
Tch. That is the number 11 which exists in the Qliphoth yet is not an imaginary number.
Is that the guide to the upside-down tree I built? This awkward product of science has
insolently reached the level of Probationer!?”
“Yeah, that’s right. I’m new around here, so be nice. And I thought newcomers were called
Neophytes, but whatever. Now, don’t forget this one thing: I’m not like you people who’ve
stopped working after mastering these things. I’m going to absorb as much as I can to
keep growing as much as possible!!”
“…!!”
In other words, the more power he was given, the stronger he would grow. Just like
launching a largescale cyber-attack on the enemy, only to have them analyze it and learn
how to do it themselves.

- New Testament Volume 22 Chapter 1 Part 4

This is from Accelerator and Coronzon's only encounter prior to the soul-rip event, if I am not wrong... and what Accelerator reflected is an entirely different attack.

From what I gathered, Magick: Flaming_Sword was only used thrice - the first blew Touma away, the second was stopped by Lilith, and the third was negated by Touma.

Am I misunderstanding something here?

 

[XDragnoir]

in Aleister's profile, his H1-C AP is justified by saying he fought High Priest - and I am here, scratching my head if that actually happened, since I don't think Aleister ever actually had a one-on-one interaction with HP 'sides the nerf time and dog being sent to kill him.

“Honestly, why did Aleister have to thoughtlessly destroy our hidden world? Maybe we really should’ve killed him.”

“We are not like Othinus,” replied the High Priest. “You yourself said so, Niang-Niang. Not that we can shamelessly call ourselves harmless.”

His gentle and soothing voice led Niang-Niang to raise both hands.

But she was not saying she had been persuaded by his virtuous sermon.

“Don’t act so high and mighty, old man. You’re the one that got pissed and tried to kill him first.”

“I have no idea what you are talking about.”

“That’s the problem right there. You completely rewrite your definition of what’s right based on how you feel at the moment. What could be more dangerous than a god that makes a complete 180 between what he said five seconds ago and what he says five seconds later? The worst part is that you’re not even aware of it, so you really do believe it’s all connected by a continuous thread of logic.”

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Gosh darn it, my reading comprehension skills fail me again.

 

[XDragnoir]

So yeah, i completely disagree with removing it because it's explicitly clear that it allows him to fight MGs

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Hm, noted, Noir. Will probably just attempt, in my CRT, to rework the High 1-C wording to make it a bit more clear on where it comes, then.

 

[Zensum]

“Kah kah!! It is merely a matter of sooner or later, but are you that intent on putting it off until later!? That’s fine, though. I will go along with your games, our sheath and our scorer. You will become our as-yet unseen seventh path and the physical form of our formless peace of mind. My power as a Magic God is currently limited and I only retain one thin layer of the power piled up like the infinite layers of an onion or matryoshka doll. But infinitely dividing that infinite power still leaves me with enough power to just barely be contained in this world!!!!!”

(Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 13, pg 44)

 

[Churronzon]

This is from Accelerator and Coronzon's only encounter prior to the soul-rip event, if I am not wrong... and what Accelerator reflected is an entirely different attack.

Accelerator reflected Flaming Sword, but the entire chant wasn't given to the reader as Accelerator cut in with the "Yo"'s and we didn't need to hear it all again.
Her special attack that is given a chant every time, was released and clashed with his vector field.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Accelerator reflected Flaming Sword, but the entire chant wasn't given to the reader as Accelerator cut in with the "Yo"'s and we didn't need to hear it all again.
Her special attack that is given a chant every time, was released and clashed with his vector field.

Really...? I am a bit skeptical now since the part of the chat that was spoken-

“My right hand contains Nuit of Resurrection and my left hand contains Hadit of
Vengeance. Combined, they form the Circle of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, which…”

Is notably different from Flaming Sword's three full incantations, when it was directly stated to be used.

“Every number is the same. My right hand contains Nuit of Resurrection. Watch as the
possibilities expand and surpass the bounds of the finite. My left hand contains Hadit of
Vengeance. The smallest point gathers and concentrates all forces to create a single
meaning. Thus, an attack shall be released from the infinite acceleration of the Circle of
Ra-Hoor-Khuit and shall appear on the surface layer of this world.”

The right hand thing is there, the left hand thing is there, and the circle is there, but Coronzon didn't say the other main parts of the Flaming Sword's incantation - like the infinite acceleration, possibilities expand, and suprassing the bonds of the infinte - which again was said in Flaming Sword's three direct usages, which Kamachi did consistently, she also didn't appear to be stunned for a moment like when Lilith stopped her, the narration itself also didn't mention that it was attack comparable to Othinus' full power or that it was the attack that overcame Imagine Breaker like its other usages after that moment -

Like to me, it seems like Coronzon was using other spell, that wasn't Flaming Sword, and Accelerator just her off from saying it in full.

 

[Churronzon]

Really...? I am a bit skeptical now since the part of the chat that was spoken-

I don't actually care since it doesn't change the nature of Accelerator's ability whether he has this feat or not. Someone else can pick up the argument if they feel like it.

---

By classic Churronzon tangent: So the Shading Computer only accomplishes mind manipulation and I'm crazy for thinking it manipulates the concept of heroes.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I don't actually care since it doesn't change the nature of Accelerator's ability whether he has this feat or not. Someone else can pick up the argument if they feel like it.

---

By classic Churronzon tangent: So the Shading Computer only accomplishes mind manipulation and I'm crazy for thinking it manipulates the concept of heroes.

Noted.

And kek. I suppose that is bound to happen when NT is bound in LN format. I.E, some things seeming more impressive than they actually are.

 

[MrOMG]

The second spell is simply an extension of the first. We know that people can abbreviate the names of spells for faster use. For example, say only the first letters of the word. And we don't know of any other spells that use the names Hadit and Nuit.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Yay, Mr.OMG is here to give clarification. And... Ye, ye, that is true, but it is notably odd to me, as this is literally the only time it happens.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Hm, I have now read the translated Mental Out chapter.

And, hm. Tsukasa, with her ability, was able to remote controlled tiny particles by deflecting the hostility carried through them, which is how the ice got off them, and perhaps there was a small time-skip in between Mitori's scene, or smth? On a side note, due to Misaki being the #1 mental manip Esper, any mind hax shown might be something Misaki can do too. Continuing, the mystery of the cubes is fascinating to me and I really wanna see more of it.

Well, time to get to the most important part, and... yep, Misaki didn't take control of the ice or break control away from the cube, she just let herself be stabbed in the hand and let her ability run wild like Ayu. With Tsukasa seemingly using her people to protect everyone else from whatever backlash that might occur, hence that small circle of safety. I should mention that the chapter also points out that ice the cube makes, be it the iclces (which looks like drills) or the freezing (which kinda looks like metal), all have a "unique" pattern to them that differentiates it from normal crystal clear ice, i.e, Misaki's ice, and the cube itself also says that they don't find it half-bad (which flat-out says that the ice is from Misaki, since she is literally the only person in the group who can do that.)

So this is something worthy calcing.

 

[Alsotime]

any mind hax shown might be something Misaki can do too.

I was wondering the same thing tbh, are there any statements that Mental Out has the capabilities of other weaker mental ability based espers? Besides Ayu obviously

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I was wondering the same thing tbh, are there any statements that Mental Out has the capabilities of other weaker mental ability based espers? Besides Ayu obviously

Oh, this.

There was one other Level 5 at Tokiwadai Middle School besides Mikoto. She was #5 and
had the strongest mental-type ability in Academy City’s history—Mental Out, as it was
called. Reading memories, brainwashing personalities, telepathically talking to distant
people, erasing feelings, amplifying willpower, reproducing thoughts, transplanting
emotions...She had singlehandedly mastered every mind-related phenomenon out there;
she was a veritable Swiss Army knife of a Level 5.

- Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 16, Chapter 1 Part 5

And in the Mental Out manga, there was a flashback scene with Touma, that has her essentially describe herself as the "Mikoto" of mental Espers, or something along those lines.

 

[Alsotime]

I wouldn't do that, she seems to be breaking the control the other esper has over the ice and using it herself, it shouldn't scale to her Mental Out at all.

Looking at the scene with translations, the sudden burst of ice was caused by her letting her powers run wild, which is why some of the chains that were shown when she was monologuing about how she holds mental out back in chapter 10 broke in the scene where she first touches the ice.

And in the Mental Out manga, there was a flashback scene with Touma, that has her essentially describe herself as the "Mikoto" of mental Espers, or something along those lines.

Speaking about Mental Out, shouldn’t Misaki get water manip added to her profile?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Speaking about Mental Out, shouldn’t Misaki get water manip added to her profile?

Seems like an easy thing to do - will add it to my CRT in its profile minor addition and fix section, with the real meat and bones of my CRT is 75% done by now.

 

[Alsotime]

Oh, this.

Also I saw the mental out scene you were referring to but I’m not sure if we can take the statements fully at face value since, at least normally, mental out doesn’t work on animals, and since we know that there are espers that have only animal based mental esper abilities, her being able to replicate all mental abilities of espers weaker than her isn’t true

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

True, true, but that could simply be an area of mental powers she can't enter due to a weakness that can't be overcome on Misaki's part no matter what she does - like how Mikoto could use her Esper Ability to mimic Junko's Rampage Dress, but doing so would be a horrible idea on her part since she doesn't have the body meant for it.

 

[Alsotime]

True, true, but that could simply be an area of mental powers she can't enter due to a weakness that can't be overcome on Misaki's part no matter what she does - like how Mikoto could use her Esper Ability to mimic Junko's Rampage Dress, but doing so would be a horrible idea on her part since she doesn't have the body meant for it.

I think I get what you mean, and i mean mental out can somewhat worked on animals because it popped that turkey when she lost control, but that was more moisture absorption than outright control and the turkey was dead but still

Btw, the mental esper I was referring to above was an animal psychometry esper, and Misaki can use psychometry so technically she does still have the power it just… doesn’t work on animals?

Also unrelated but I thought the reason Misaka can’t fully pick up rampage dress was because she is scared it would make her like Accelerator.

edti: adding on to the above, she does end up using it during the doppelgänger arc and apparently during ss3 [though that time she dislocated her thigh]

 

[XDragnoir]

yep, Misaki didn't take control of the ice or break control away from the cube, she just let herself be stabbed in the hand and let her ability run wild like Ayu.

Well, i guess Misaki is some kind of full blown water esper now then? So far we had seen the Liquid Proof Railgun which gave us this bit about her power:

"Shokuhou Misaki’s power controlled people’s minds, but she technically did so by controlling the miniature bits of liquid in the body.

And since adjusting the salinity could provide conductivity to that liquid, it could also be influenced by electromagnetic powers such as the Lorentz force."


But now she was able to disperse a water ball and create ice... she just jumped to a whole new level of uselessness IMO now, because one side of her powers is useless against everyone that matters and the other side she simply doesn't use.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I think I get what you mean, and i mean mental out can somewhat worked on animals because it popped that turkey when she lost control, but that was more moisture absorption than outright control and the turkey was dead but still

Btw, the mental esper I was referring to above was an animal psychometry esper, and Misaki can use psychometry so technically she does still have the power it just… doesn’t work on animals?

Also unrelated but I thought the reason Misaka can’t fully pick up rampage dress was because she is scared it would make her like Accelerator.

edti: adding on to the above, she does end up using it during the doppelgänger arc and apparently during ss3 [though that time she dislocated her thigh]

Ye, that is about right with Misaki.

And for Mikoto. Hm. Looking at the Astral Buddy manga, it doesn't state she is scared of using it will make her like Accelerator, but moreso, she has a distaste towards it. She also mentions that it requires fine control and a single mistake could lead to serious injury, i.e, that dislocated thigh thing. Also, am pretty sure Mikoto only used it in Doppelganger arc to biltz Seike's perception and close the distance in a flash.

Well, i guess Misaki is some kind of full blown water esper now then? So far we had seen the Liquid Proof Railgun which gave us this bit about her power:

"Shokuhou Misaki’s power controlled people’s minds, but she technically did so by controlling the miniature bits of liquid in the body.

And since adjusting the salinity could provide conductivity to that liquid, it could also be influenced by electromagnetic powers such as the Lorentz force."


But now she was able to disperse a water ball and create ice... she just jumped to a whole new level of uselessness IMO now, because one side of her powers is useless against everyone that matters and the other side she simply doesn't use.

Ye. The perfect partner for Mikoto, I tell ye.

Gets the ability to make a giant iron-sand monster - has no use for it since everybody that matters can insta-destroy it.

Gets an ability to boost her physical stats - has no use for it cuz it is near useless in an actual fight.

Like all of the things that Mikoto gains in the manga would probably be useful in OT (up until a certain point) in the large-scale group battles that Touma was in - Amakusa Vs. Agnees Force, British Hallowen, any part of WWIII that Fiamma isn't near by or has an interest in, heck, NT8 is also a decent example - but Touma really has terrible luck, and keeps running into overpowered folks nowadays - and getting into fist fights with them.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Well, at the very least, Mikoto and Misaki are still more useful in GT than Mugino and Saiai.

... Honestly, I am curious if they even know of the shit that Hamazura and Takitsubo during their trip to England, or if they even went in the first place. Like... Hamazura helped a demon in their goal of ending existence itself all because he wanted to save a tarot card, Takitsubo was a part of a group who was fighting against a clone of a level zero that popped out of nowhere and essentially took over England for a bit by manipulating a level 5.

 

[Alsotime]

Well, i guess Misaki is some kind of full blown water esper now then?

Hasn’t she been for awhile now, atleast the way her and Ayu’s powers affect their environment when they lose control has been.

A tremendous sound burst out and Shokuhou clearly saw the scenery distort around Mitsuari.

Their powers technically manipulated people’s minds by controlling the moisture in their brains. The changes they caused were normally microscopic and they could not cause any physical phenomena visible with the naked eye.

But she overturned that assumption with her anger.

The actual phenomenon may have been similar to freeze-drying. In that process, the pressure was increased by compressing the moisture in the air while the water molecules inside the target were removed to fill the object with microscopic holes like a dried sponge. Here, it created a demonic territory that would cause any living creature to crumble like dried paper mache and that territory burst out from Mitsuari in every direction.

The mechanically-controlled monitor dust turned white while producing the sound of bursting sparks and that color change swallowed up the entire landscape.

Shokuhou was only saved because of the special fluid of the Five Over, but what about the person outside?

“…”

She slowly tilted her head and managed to get a view outside the transparent coffin.

Her wavering vision saw a certain boy with an arm in a cast hanging from his shoulder in a sling. Mitsuari’s demonic territory approached him. The magnetically-controlled monitor dust turned pure white and that color began to envelop him.

What he did in response was simple.

He swung that arm to the side.

And it came in contact with that demonic territory.

The cast shattered, his right hand was exposed, and the hopeless attack was eliminated in an instant.

- New Testament Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 11 Chapter 4 Part 9

She had lost control of herself.

And the power to control the human mind through the manipulation of the body’s moisture went berserk.

“But he remembers me. I don’t care if it’s a miracle or a coincidence. I was never hoping for a logical answer. But… but whatever he looks like and whatever he might do…”

She was crying.

Tears streamed down her face.

She knew what it meant to do this, but she could not correct her mistake.

The mini hat wobbled atop her honey-blonde hair.

That false crown shook.

“But if there are two Kamijou-sans out there… and one remembers me and one doesn’t…”

She controlled all the victors of the war in the dance hall, including the queen regnant.

She took control and made them hers.

Shokuhou Misaki bit her lip to suppress the sobs as she wept like a lost child.

And she raised her voice as if to break through the solid barrier of the one girl she could not control by normal means.

All while squeezing the cheap emergency whistle in her hand.

“That’s the Kamijou-san I shared that summer with!! So I’m sorry, Misaka-saaan!!!!!!”

A dry popping sound followed.

She had lost control of her power to manipulate moisture on the microscopic level to control the human mind. The large turkey on one of the long tables burst like a dustball and the venomously red wine spilled on the floor boiled in the blink of an eye.

If this power happened to hit it, even silver armor would crumble away like it was made of sand.

The destruction tore a loose band across the dance hall like a searchlight sweeping around the honey-blonde girl and finally directed itself toward the skull protecting the #3.

It was as violent as performing brain surgery with a chainsaw.

“…!!”

That pushed Misaka Mikoto over the edge as well.

The obstinate and childish #5 was telling her something.

That girl had been driven to the very edge of the cliff and could only choose the wrong answer as she trembled there.

So.

She was telling Mikoto to do the right thing in her place.

Mikoto felt an intense headache piercing her temple, but it faded away almost immediately. She could not reject it, so it was making its way into her mind.

It just isn’t something she actively uses because she restricts mental out with her controllers and doesn’t usually lose control.

So it’s good we have a spin-off that can focus on that chained up part of her power hinted at but not normally shown in the novels.

 

[Zensum]

Tweets from Nogi about the new Metal Out chapter with machine translation.

あれは亥織がもともと大量に送り込んでいた水毬が全部凍った上、大気中の水分も何もかも巻き込んで巨大な氷塊が発生したんだと思うわよ。氷になると体積も膨らむので…。
I think that's because the water balls that Iori had originally sent in in large quantities were all frozen, and on top of that, the moisture in the atmosphere and everything else got involved, creating a gigantic block of ice. When it becomes ice, it expands in volume.

4:36 AM · Feb 4, 2023

ただ心理掌握がミクロな水分操作だってことは食蜂も隠してると思うので、次回は雅王院たちなりの解釈であの現象にちょい触れてたりします。
However, I think that Shokuhou is hiding the fact that psychological control is a micro-moisture manipulation, so next time we will touch on that phenomenon a bit with our own interpretation.

4:44 AM · Feb 4, 2023

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心理掌握の正体であるところのミクロな水分操作が暴走してマクロな水分に及んだ結果なんだけど、食蜂自身に相当な負荷がかかってないと同じ現象は再現できないと思います。
It's the result of micro moisture manipulation, which is the true identity of psychological control, going out of control and reaching macro moisture.

4:39 AM · Feb 4, 2023
(2)

ちなみに暴走しないとマクロな水分操作はできないし暴走だからそもそもコントロールできないんだけど、合体技であるところのリキッドプルーフレールガンだけは例外らしいんですよ。本当に嫌いあってるんですかあなたたちっていう…。
By the way, if you don't go out of control, you can't control the water on a macro scale, and since it's going out of control, you can't control it in the first place, but the Liquid Proof Railgun, which is a combination technique, seems to be an exception. Do you really hate each other?

5:09 AM · Feb 4, 2023

虚数学区についてはもう単純に美琴の推測通りで「11次元を侵食して喰らう」こともできる能力ってことじゃないかなと。次元の壁すらも食べる？
As for the Imaginary Division, it's just as Mikoto guessed, and I think it's an ability that can "encroach and eat the 11th dimension". Eat even dimensional walls?

4:48 AM · Feb 4, 2023

単行本に余裕あったら４ページくらい加筆するつもりではある
If there is room in the book, I intend to add about four pages.

4:51 AM · Feb 4, 2023

謎の超常現象に特大超火力ぶっぱで対抗したってだけの脳筋話ではある…。
It's just a brain muscle story about fighting a mysterious paranormal phenomenon with an oversized super firepower.

4:58 AM · Feb 4, 2023

食蜂さん、サイコメトリーもできるので物に宿るいわゆる残留思念を読み取ってるみたいですね。
Shokuhou-san, you can also do psychometry, so it seems like you can read the so-called residual thoughts that dwell in things.

4:01 AM · Feb 5, 2023

ただこの残留思念、何物なのか説明する自信が私はないです 残留思念（たぶん）は長期にわたって過去に遡れるほど強力かと思えば、適当なこと考えつつ物に触れるだけで上書きできちゃったりするんだとか。
However, I don't have the confidence to explain what this thought is.

4:08 AM · Feb 5, 2023

食蜂さんの探偵役、読心を禁じてもサイコメトリーしまくるだけであっと言う間に真相にたどり着いちゃうっぽいので、何か搦め手の一つでもないと迷うことないですよねたぶん。搦め手はもうすでにいまひとつ動いてはいます…。
Shokuhou-san's detective role, even if you forbid reading your mind, it seems that you can reach the truth in no time just by doing psychometry, so if it's not one of the tricks, you won't get lost. My hands are already moving a bit...

4:18 AM · Feb 5, 2023

残留思念については今度出るレールガンの新刊を読むべし
For residual thoughts, you should read the new issue of Railgun that will be released next

4:20 AM · Feb 5, 2023

3巻はちょっと迷ってるんですが、今の候補だと操祈、美琴、司あたりの複数人…？
I'm a little hesitant about Volume 3, but the current candidates are Souki, Mikoto, and multiple people around Tsukasa...?

10:09 AM · Feb 5, 2023

亥織の髪色は帆風と対になってるから食蜂と並んだら面白そうだなと思ってたんだけど、漫画だと全部白だからややこしいわよね
Iori's hair color is paired with Hofu, so I thought it would be interesting to line up with Shokuhou, but in the manga it's all white, so it's confusing

11:05 AM · Feb 5, 2023

ナンバーツーはソギー。
Number two is Soggy.

11:35 AM · Feb 5, 2023

(1)

牧上小牧、良いキャラなので出そう出そうとはしてるんだけどそのたび断念してるキャラナンバーワン…。
Komaki Makigami is a good character, so I'm trying to put her out, but I give up on character number one every time...

11:34 AM · Feb 5, 2023
(2)

この子さいしょは名無しモブキャラだったから…。
This girl was originally a nameless mob character...

11:38 AM · Feb 5, 2023

 

[XDragnoir]

Hasn’t she been for awhile now, atleast the way her and Ayu’s powers affect their environment when they lose control has been.

It was limited to moisture draining pretty much, now she could explode a water ball and create ice.

 

[Alsotime]

Kanzaki’s luck is an overall saint thing right?
The way it’s described makes it seem like it’s an ability all saints have.

“There’s this hidden Christian organization in Japan called the Amakusa-style Christian
Church, see. Before Kanzaki nee-chin was born, it was decided she would rise to the top
of their group and be their priestess. And that she was one of God’s chosen ones, a Saint
blessed with the Stigma, of whom there are less than twenty in the world.”
Tsuchimikado was smiling.
However, it was a different kind of smile than his usual easygoing one.
“She had the talent to succeed without effort. She had the popularity to stand at the
center of people without doing anything. Everything she desired would be fulfilled, and
unpredicted, happy miscalculations would happen every day before breakfast. She
would somehow survive if her life were threatened. She would avoid bullets for no
reason, and she would miraculously emerge unscathed even if a bomb went off right
next to her,” Tsuchimikado went on, as if singing a lullaby. “...That’s why Kanzaki nee-
chin can’t forgive herself for being lucky. Perhaps she’s cursed by her devilish fortune.”

- Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 4, Chapter 2 Part 5

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Hm. Does anybody know the exact height of Doppelganger's giant form? Asking since I might be able to get something from Mikoto's Iron Sand Kaiju. Am pretty sure I saw somewhere in the to aru reddit that stated Doppelganger's giant form was 60m or smth, and I tracked that down to the concept art for it, but wanna know if anybody else can prove this information.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ye, the concept art seems to have the number. Otherwise, you could always scale it though.

 

[Alsotime]

What would a theoretical Meigo Arisa profile look like?

 

[XDragnoir]

Btw, i was reading that thread in Spacebattles with the RC dragons, do you think we could add Acausality type 4 for Angels and the like with that quote?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Which quote?

 

[XDragnoir]

Which quote?

The one about them being outside and thus able to alter humanity's fate:

Kanzaki, looking like her heart would stop beating any second, said, “Angels cannot kill
humans without an order from God, and yet…have you even forgotten that, Power of
God? The number of souls to be judged during the ‘final judgment’ in the New
Testament is decided ahead of time. You would understand that killing people so
carelessly now would equate to bringing that judgment to ruin! You told us that!”

He felt like he’d heard that from Tsuchimikado before.

He said that God would come down to Earth at the end of the world, then decide on a
case-by-case basis who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. The results were
actually set in stone from the beginning, so if an angel killed people imprudently, then
those results would go wrong or something.

Leaving religious notions behind, the logic was a sort of time paradox. If it killed
someone who was never originally supposed to be killed, their children would never be
born. And then their grandchildren and their great-grandchildren—none of them would
be born. Just like how someone who uses a time machine is a transcender who can bend
history to his will, this angel, who was out of position with the history of mankind, had
the power to change mankind’s future and its ultimate end.

A transcender.
___

It states pretty directly that an angel is outside and can alter the already set in stone future of humanity and its ultimate end.

OMG had a different translation of the same quote, but both say more or less the same thing.

 

[DontTalkDT]

That's really just defying a prophecy. Or less than a prophecy. It's technically just defying what the Christian god wants the future to be like.
It's meaningful from a Christian standpoint, where the prophecies are supposed to be absolute, but I wouldn't take the time travel analogy so literally that this is to be equated to acausality. It's not like Gabriel is actually from the future.

 

[XDragnoir]

At the end of the world, God would descend down to the mortal world and decide everyone's fate, whether they were going to heaven or to hell. If a person who shouldn't be killed was dead, his children wouldn't be born. If that happened, his grandchildren and great-grandchildren wouldn't be born. That was why those who could control time and space were those supremacists who could control history. The angels who escaped from the history of humanity also had the power to change humanity's future.

The supremacists.
__

This is the version Mr. OMG had, no idea which one is more accurate.

but I wouldn't take the time travel analogy so literally that this is to be equated to acausality. It's not like Gabriel is actually from the future.

I agree with the prophecy point, but this part makes no sense, mainly this bolded part, it's a simile so obviously it's not to be taken literally so no idea why you're pointing it.

The point of the analogy is that while a time traveler will travel to the past and change the present+future based on their actions in the past, Gabriel is disconnected from humanity's history and can thus take actions to change the future while in the present, with both being called Transcenders, in context those are beings who can change the future.

 

[Zensum]

The first quote is more accurate, the second is an older fan translation.

In context, an angel normally embodies absolute obedience to God so if one somehow went rogue and that angel acted or delivered God's divine judgment before its designated time, it could alter mankind's Final Judgement(the prerecorded number of souls to be judged in the end), which only factors humanity in it's framework, as an angel is a transcendent lifeform that exist outside human history.

 

[DontTalkDT]

At the end of the world, God would descend down to the mortal world and decide everyone's fate, whether they were going to heaven or to hell. If a person who shouldn't be killed was dead, his children wouldn't be born. If that happened, his grandchildren and great-grandchildren wouldn't be born. That was why those who could control time and space were those supremacists who could control history. The angels who escaped from the history of humanity also had the power to change humanity's future.

The supremacists.
__

This is the version Mr. OMG had, no idea which one is more accurate.


I agree with the prophecy point, but this part makes no sense, mainly this bolded part, it's a simile so obviously it's not to be taken literally so no idea why you're pointing it.

The point of the analogy is that while a time traveler will travel to the past and change the present+future based on their actions in the past, Gabriel is disconnected from humanity's history and can thus take actions to change the future while in the present, with both being called Transcenders, in context those are beings who can change the future.

Yeah, but every being can change the future. The point is, unless it's some kind of actual paradox, it's not acausality. For a time traveller it would be a paradox, because they would change what is their past, hence changing themselves, hence not doing the thing that caused the change.
For Gabriel it isn't. He is special in that he can act outside of the Christian Prophecy's prediction, but he isn't paradoxing himself in doing so. Hence not acausality.

---

Btw., just noticed, but you guys probably gotta update Rensa's Electromaster key to match Misaka? Think you forgot that when you upgraded the profile.