To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament 22 Reverse Updates

[Scrlk666777]

That makes sense.

Elizard being able to react to the electron beam is more of a reacton than an actual speed feat so depending if the reaction was MHS or Sub-Rel it might not need to be changed since Elizard and the Saints already have MHS speed on their profile.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I'm not sure this would change anything but it should be noted that Accel has unlimited access to the Clonoth and platinum wings.

Also should Dion Forutune get a profile?

 

[Malox1696]

i think platinum wings might still get the 30 min limit cause it requires connection to the network to access the tree normal one dont tho

 

[Scrlk666777]

I wasn't actually referring to the time limit but rather that he can access the wings on will rather than needing certain requirements, like the black and white wings.

On the time limit though, techically he shouldn't have a time limit anymore but this is unknown either way for right now.

 

[Malox1696]

White wings don't need requirement tho

 

[VoidGoji]

they need. Accel needs to have some kind of good intentions, as opposed to black wings being activated by him having bad intentions

 

[Scrlk666777]

White wings is ambigous more than anything as it seems he could bring them out at will in NT 10 but never shown he could afterwards. So it's really unknown if he could or not. But with platinum wings he definetely can.

 

[Accelerate420]

Is there anything else that needs to be said at this point? When I can I'll likely make another post for the further accel aditions and the pre headshot scaling if need be, but for the 22R changes I feel everything said here is checks out. Dion Should probably get a profile I guess but her AP is pretty out there as of right now. You could scale her to Kanzaki and call it a day along with Grimoire Mathers speed and durability if you really had too.

 

[Scrlk666777]

If you want I can do the Accel post. But I think that is everything for now, I can't think of anything else.

 

[Accelerate420]

My PC is still being repaired so that would be appreciated. You could probably just copy paste what I've already posted near the start here in your own way or something and include maybe anything I missed and i can join the discussion when I'm available. Best to get this done while we can cuz we got a long hiatus ahead.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Okay, I will get right on that. It should be up some time later or at the latest tomorrow.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Btw what did you mean by removing Pre-NT22 key? There isn't such a key. We just have Base (Post headshot)

 

[Accelerate420]

I think around the time I posted this there was two headshot keys but maybe I hallucinated it?

 

[Scrlk666777]

Maybe that was it or you remember from that other post since it was discussed whether or not to add the Pre-NT22 key to stop confusion, mainly with Kakine, but really as I said before his key itself should be revised really.

but I will do one for upgrading Pre-headshot key to 5-B and removing Kakine's scaling as well as adding some applications to Accel's powers.

Besides Gravity, light and Information analysis, I'm going to add Heat and Electricity Manipulation and heat resistence as well as being able to sense magic. Since these are things that are said he can control.

I'm not sure whether to add Biology manipulation and brain manipulaton (Both personally only) as he can control his own bio-vectors and has full control of his own brain, which is why Mental out doesn't work.

 

[Accelerate420]

It makes me curious why this stuff wasn't added before since 90% of it is OT feats? Those sound good too, Limited Lighr is probably good enough but the biggest things are pre headshot scaling to post, gravity,, information, and biology/brain like you said. I would put 'Temperature resistance' over heat since he wasn't bothered by the cold either in NT22. Electricity and Heat is good to add too, but at this point you might as well just say scalars tbh since he has never had problems redirecting them but now is probably not the time to debate that.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yeah, there's so much missing but I think it comes down to the pages being locked, probably because of vandals and/or people changing things they shouldn't. And there's not many people on here on the Toaru pages, just a handful of us really and most of us can't open pages.

 

[Accelerate420]

That's a shame. Well I'm sure after we get this all clustered into a neat post we can grab a mod/admins attention.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Hopefully. Okay,. I'm done and about to post it now. Hopefully it's alright.

 

[Malox1696]

at this point you might as well just say scalars tbh since he has never had problems redirecting them but now is probably not the time to debate that.

Well technically yes, cause all scalar are counted as such for simplicity's sake, only real scalar value are inherit properties like mass, distance, length, etc

any change u make in the universe involves vectors directly or indirectly, only adding to the system is non vectorial (if u take a system and add something to it ex: my system is table and pen, if in apple is on the table and i add it to the system im not involving any vector) or some weird application of quantum entanglement

btw real reality warping ignore all this obv

 

[Zensum]

That makes sense.
Elizard being able to react to the electron beam is more of a reacton than an actual speed feat so depending if the reaction was MHS or Sub-Rel it might not need to be changed since Elizard and the Saints already have MHS speed on their profile.

Indeed, realistically it's probably near LS but "particle beam weapons" are kinda variable speed in fiction so like i'm thinking MHS+ reactions would be more consistent than sub rel/rel for laser dodging.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Electron beams can have whatever speed, so that is not a very good speed feat (it should be somewhat fast due to coming from orbit, but any estimation regarding that doesn't scale well to Elizard).


That aside, I got a bit sidetracked. What is in the op is accepted for the most part, I think, except that I still have some debate on the dragon stats.

The Index vs A.A.A. thing was accepted without dura/AP upgrade for the A.A.A., I think.

So aside from what I mentioned above I would start applying the stuff, if nobody is against it.


Regarding scaling Dragon Touma to Kanzaki: He stopped a blow of Kanzaki's sheath at the start of their encounter, but as Dion pointed out later, Kanzaki was hesitating and held back in that fight. So I am sceptical about scaling Touma to Kanzaki in anything except the speed.

And obviously Accels attack on Touma wasn't even remotely serious, so that shouldn't scale either.

 

[Accelerate420]

Not to mention Touma only really reacted because Othinus had shifted her position as pointed out by Kanzaki. He likely would've gotten messed up if his Understander wasn't giving him combat knowledge.

 

[Scrlk666777]

We could leave the AP as unknown. Speed and durability are probably the only two things we can scale for right now with dragon Touma.

Can we scale Fake Touma to anyone and then scale dragon Touma to him?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Don't think Fake Touma scales to anyone.

What I'm not sure of is whether either of them would have a wall level feat or something.

I would give Dragon Touma an "At least Street level" otherwise.

 

[Accelerate420]

Street level is good enough.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Agree. I think "At least Street level" is the best option.

 

[Malox1696]

it was mentioned that the fake touma is stronger than dragon touma

"The sky-blue shell was honestly too weak to call a trump card.

It was only the dregs and most of the power had to have been taken by the other boy."

 

[Accelerate420]

Fake Touma also got beaten down by a pan so we can't really scale.

 

[XDragnoir]

How fast we assume preHS Accel's reflection to be?

 

[Accelerate420]

The exact same. There's no difference in reflection time since it's an automatic formula between the two.

 

[XDragnoir]

Fine, but we assume him to be light speed? Ftl?

 

[Accelerate420]

FTL at least. Speed has never once been described as an issue and to be able to do what he did with Kakine at less than 50% implies absurd calculation speed. I wouldn't go MFTL because then you'd be ripping holes in space time. People can, however, out-calculate the speed of his reflection similar to what Amata and Mina did, but that requires insane prep that no other person can replicate except maybe extreme info analysis chars can.

 

[XDragnoir]

Can't we calculate a minimum speed for his reflection? Because reflection happens so quickly that even light can't travel 1 cm (which is the size of the vector shield) and I think this is calculable, although I can't calculate it myself.

 

[Accelerate420]

I think it's irrelevant and should just be treated as instantaneous, it's not worth the headache. Reflection time has never been delved into, the closest you get is Amata punch but that was abusing a backdoor with a decade+ of prep since he found Accelerator.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Look at this going off topic agai

Reflection time isn't instantaneous and shouldn't be treated as such. A sufficiently fast character can just punch through it. It should for all intents and purposes be bound by Accels calculation speed, so with post-headshot being able to reflect light, pre-headshot should be twice as fast and angel modes should be far beyond. Meaning for base it would need above speed of light attacks, for pre-headshot above 2x speed of light ones and for angel modes unquantified far above that.

Speed of light is 29979245800 cm/s, so his calculation speed in post-headshot base should sits at 0.0000000000333564 seconds.

 

[Accelerate420]

When has it ever been stated a sufficiently fast character has punched through it? If you're referring to Mina, she didn't punch through it. She abused her physiology and did a technique similar to Coronzon where the vectors collided with her fist, but since her body could shift and morph, her skin cushioned the impacts of the reflection and changed constantly so the reflection would not cause too much damage, but by doing that, by the time it reached him, there was barely much force left in the punch. It was an abuse of her physiology and out-calculating him less than it was speed.

And if you want proof, read the fight carefully. Kamachi, when leaving things ambigous, tends to drop key words and phrases.

 

[XDragnoir]

Accel's reflection is limited by speed for the same reason time stop counter him: he needs time to calculate, if the attack has enough speed, Accel will not be able to redirect the attack in time.

 

[Malox1696]

just put it at FTL like it was until now

 

[Accelerate420]

It's an automatic formula. Are you going to tell me he can see attacks from behind and is registering them?

 

[Malox1696]

If the speed of the attack surpasses the calculation speed of accel (unlikely but at infinite speed it will) then it would not even get registered and pass trough

he doesn't have to see, the AIM does it for him but it's still based on calculations