To Aru: Esper Possibility/Law Revision and Not-So-Minor Accel/Qliphah Revision

[Malox1696]

dude the part is clearly cause coronzon and her are linked

 

[Accelerate420]

The way I see it was she was merely saying it was easier to do because she has knowledge and had previously been connected to her. I don't think they're connected after what Accelerator did to the contract which was the whole reason she was having those fits at the end of NT21., otherwise Coronzon probably could've pulled something out of her ass to disrupt their pact.

 

[Scrlk666777]

dude the part is clearly cause coronzon and her are linked

She said that it was easier to establish a connection but nowhere in the text just it imply that she could only do it because they were linked or rather used to be linked.

Also they're not even linked at this point anyway either as there is nothing connecting them after Accel severed the contract.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

I'm leaning towards agreeing/neutral with the esper law manip but it's not combat applicable (except takitsubo??)

Accelerator having access to the clonoth amd the fact he spawned the third tree would give him conceptual/law manipulation. considering he gains all the knowledge from this he should he directly capable of interacting with such now. At the very least in platinum wing form.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I don't think OP is suggesting we give them actual Law Manipulation but giving them resistence against Law Hax Manipulation and Possibly Possibility Manipulation as well.

 

[Accelerate420]

I'm leaning towards agreeing/neutral with the esper law manip but it's not combat applicable (except takitsubo??)
Accelerator having access to the clonoth amd the fact he spawned the third tree would give him conceptual/law manipulation. considering he gains all the knowledge from this he should he directly capable of interacting with such now. At the very least in platinum wing form.

Oh, I didn't mean manip. I just meant Law hax resistance to a specific degree for all Espers who can at least influence their powers/control them to a degree like Uiharu's Thermal Hand. Takitsubo would have limited combat applicable law manip? I guess you can consider that because of how esper powers works it's limited Law/Possibility Manipulation in itself.

Is there anything else you don't agree or agree on?

 

[Scrlk666777]

Takitsubo doesn't have a profile and really it would only work against lower level espers. It's extremely limited really.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

ah. i meant i agree to the resistance. Takitsubo can weaponize it though.

@scrlk not just them. she can affect kakines personal reality though he resisted it but not without some concern from him. then again he would have resistance to it if the OP is approved.

 

[Scrlk666777]

She did but he also pointed out that he could have defeated her easily so I think while she can, it's not really combat applicable against the higher level espers or at least not Kakine and Accelerator.

 

[Accelerate420]

I don't think Takitsubo is limited to just Esper powers since she picks up magic frequencies as well (albiet she can't interfere with them in her condition so it still doesn't mean much). What about the other Accel and Qliphah additions? I'm pretty sure most Espers can resist it, it just more so sends them out of control similar to AIM Jammers I believe. Or at the very least high level espers can.

 

[Accelerate420]

I added some votes so when it comes to be added or not, it's easier to do a TL;DR of who agrees with what, assuming I'm counting your vote correctly TIHY?

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

yeah that's correct. I'm for the revisions.

 

[Accelerate420]

Okay. I'm not sure whether to count your vote for the rest of the Accel ones though but I assume you're good with at least the Metaphysical/Conceptual one?

Can I get everyone's votes for the Accel revisions as well just so I'm not putting words in peoples mouths? Please and thank you!

 

[Scrlk666777]

Here's my views on all

You already counted my vote for Law Hax Resistence, so I'll skip that one.

Metaphysical and possibly Conceptual vector manipulation

I added vector Manipulation on the end, just in case it's thought it means actual conceptual Manipulation.

This should be a given since he has demostrated he can manipulate conceptual and metaphysical vectors. I would also add Magical and Non-physical Vector Manipulation on there too.

Magic

Again a given that this should be added but I would we should also add the weakness of the recoil for this as well. This should only apply for him using magic not magical vector Manip though.

Accelerator having internal spell based immunity/coordinate attack immunity

Makes sense to me.

Durability Negation

This should 100% be added. He literally has four ways of ignoring durability through attacking interal organs, energy Manipulation, Matter Manipulation and with Clonoth, Soul Manipulation.

AP auto-reflect scaling to Opponants Dura

Again makes sense.

Qliphah having energy sensing/thought sensing and telepathy

I think the first might fall under Enhanced senses and yeah she should have telepathy.

So basically I agree with everything.

 

[DestinyDude0]

Voting yes for the revisions as well.

 

[Accelerate420]

I think I've gotten the votes correct. I'll wait for Malox to count him on the overall revisions as well. If anything is wrong let me know and I'll update accordingly.

 

[Malox1696]

im unsure about the first and the last but ok with everything else

 

[Scrlk666777]

It's just getting Lazy's and DT's thoughts now.

 

[Accelerate420]

im unsure about the first and the last but ok with everything else

Okay, I'll put you as neutral to them. Thanks. Just to clarify, the first is the Esper resistance or the conceptual vectors?

I'll message DT later since I already messaged Hunter. I should message Zen as well since he's very knowledgeable. Preferrably I'd like a vote of all of them.

 

[Malox1696]

the vector part, he was mixing magic and his power at that time with the tree, in fact he made a puddle of blood thanks to the recoil

 

[Scrlk666777]

the vector part, he was mixing magic and his power at that time with the tree, in fact he made a puddle of blood thanks to the recoil

We aren't just talking about the time where he planted the tree.,

There's plenty of evidence through NT21-NT22R where it was shown he can manipulate Metaphysical, Conceptual, Magical and now Non-Physical vectors. Okay, admittingly we haven't actually seen the former two yet.

The recoil only happened because he was using Magic against Neph and because Qliphah implanted the magical knowledge into him. He didn't suffer any recoil from using vector Manipulation.

 

[Accelerate420]

the vector part, he was mixing magic and his power at that time with the tree, in fact he made a puddle of blood thanks to the recoil

True, but the contract is also conceptual in itself so I think it depends on what he's having to work with. But it'd still count, I'll add it though. Here's hoping this will be the last Accel revision for a while.

 

[Scrlk666777]

the vector part, he was mixing magic and his power at that time with the tree, in fact he made a puddle of blood thanks to the recoil

True, but the contract is also conceptual in itself so I think it depends on what he's having to work with. But it'd still count, I'll add it though

It;s actually not true though.

We have actually seen he doesn't suffer any magical recoil from being able to Manipulate/reflect Metaphysical and Conceptual stuff. It's only if he actually uses Magic without vectors.

I mean he literally tore apart Coronzon's angels, which are either magical or conceptual/Metaphysical by nature without suffering any recoil.

When he made that Anti-Magic spear, again no recoil.

When he broke Qliphah;s contract, again no recoil.

 

[Accelerate420]

Right. Forgot about that. Well either way he has feats of conceptual/metaphysical in the end regardless of the method, yeah?

 

[Scrlk666777]

Right. Forgot about that. Well either way he has feats of conceptual/metaphysical in the end regardless of the method, yeah?

Yeah. He has feats for it and while it hasn't been shown yet Qliphah did say he can control Magical vectors but with a bit of help but this has yet to actually be shown but I would add it anyway since as I said I don't see why Qliphah would lie. And course he have Accelerator himself saying that he can also reflect/Manipulate Non-physical vectors.

As I said though in my reply above, when it comes to the recoil, it should be a weakness in regards of him using actual magic but not him using Magical Vector Manipulation.

 

[Malox1696]

When he made that Anti-Magic spear, again no recoil.

When he broke Qliphah;s contract, again no recoil.

well that's different than casting magic, he was grabbing the already existing energy with vectors

im talking about the tree example

 

[Scrlk666777]

When he made that Anti-Magic spear, again no recoil.

When he broke Qliphah;s contract, again no recoil.

well that's different than casting magic, he was grabbing the already existing energy with vectors
im talking about the tree example

Using Metaphysical and Conceptual vector Manipulation is NOT using magic though.

The only time he suffered any recoil with the tree was when it was being planted it and it's unknown why he suffered the recoil then as it was not really clear.

 

[Malox1696]

Using Metaphysical and Conceptual vector Manipulation is NOT using magic though.

The only time he suffered any recoil with the tree was when it was being planted it and it's unknown why he suffered the recoil then as it was not really clear.

nope

quote "A low straining sound could be heard.
The large, atrium-style opera house took up space in three stories of the ship. The large space had been thoroughly designed for optimal acoustics.
The bandages were caught above the stage.
She was like a broken marionette or a butterfly trapped in a spider web. The silver-haired, brown-skinned woman swayed slowly while her body was painfully squeezed by the many bandages tangled in the metal bars used to attach the lights above the stage. "I see☆" Magic God Nephthys remained unfazed even with her feet lifted from the ground.
Although she used tears as a weapon, so her apparent emotions could not be trusted.
"So that's it. A lack of preconceptions really is a frightening thing."
The one soaked in blood and leaning against the stage wall was Accelerator "

he was under the recoil since 545 installed the magic knowledge and he used it with her to negated neph regen

quote "You don't understand magic and you don't know the rules, so that Magic God could mock you and act all omniscient and omnipotent, but that ends now."
In order to truly give him her power and to fight while harming each other, Qliphah Puzzle 545 glared directly at Magic God Nephthys.
"I will provide you with what you need to know by installing the knowledge of the entire tree of seventy-eight cards. It doesn't matter if you are aware of it or not, master. Just control the vectors however feels right to you. All of 'us' will make sure it all works out!!"
A wet sound followed.
Accelerator was supposedly untouchable because he would reflect any and all vectors, but some blood had just left his white skin.
However, the monster smiled.
Why should he be afraid of even a single scratch? He was sick of being treated so fragilely"

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox

Again you have just proven with the quotes you provided that you are no clue what you are talking about.

I mean first of all what does any of this have to do with Accel being able to Manipulate Conceptual/Metaphysical and Magical vectors?

Secondly the reason he bled the first time was because Qliphah implated the knowledge of the entire tree of 78 cards,not because he manipulate anything via vectors.

Thirdly he used actual magic against Neph, not through vectors. It's why he said he didn't need Maths or calculations in the fight against her because he wasn't going to rely on his ability but on the new found magical knowledge he just enquired.

Next time actually read the text you provide beforehand.

I mean first you try and make out Accel has extremly weak calculation power and now you are trying to argue facts that only exist in your head.

 

[Malox1696]

@Malox
Again you have just proven with the quotes you provided that you are no clue what you are talking about.

I mean first of all what does any of this have to do with Accel being able to Manipulate Conceptual/Metaphysical and Magical vectors?

Secondly the reason he bled the first time was because Qliphah implated the knowledge of the entire tree of 78 cards,not because he manipulate anything via vectors.

Thirdly he used actual magic against Neph, not through vectors. It's why he said he didn't need Maths or calculations in the fight against her because he wasn't going to rely on his ability but on the new found magical knowledge he just enquired.

Next time actually read the text you provide beforehand.

I mean first you try and make out Accel has extremly weak calculation power and now you are trying to argue facts that only exist in your head.

no im saying he got the magic recoil from there, u said he did not get magic recoil

 

[Scrlk666777]

No I did not. I said he does not get magical recoil from being able to use magical/Metaphysical/Conceptual VECTOR MANIPULATION, NOT from using magic

In fact if you go and read my reply above where I am saying whether I agree with everything or not that the magic recoil should be added to his weakness, if magic is added to his profile.,

But is through using magic directly not through vectors.

 

[Malox1696]

but both cases u presented

When he made that Anti-Magic spear, again no recoil.

he did get the recoil

and

When he broke Qliphah;s contract, again no recoil.

it was just energy manipulation

quote ""Was it called an original grimoire? Whatever it was, you can keep them from functioning by bringing the energy in the area to the saturation point to obstruct the transfer of power, right? The basic idea is the same as electrocuting someone by screwing with the transmission of their nerve signals. I learned how it's done when it happened to that Edward Berridge guy. So the rest is all about control. If I keep my output below what would destroy you, I can remove just the malfunctioning parts."
"B-but, huh? Aren't you a little confused? I might be an artificial demon that exists as a contrast to the Thoth Tarot, but I don't actually use tarot cards. So you shouldn't be able to save me with the same method used on grimoires."
"Hm?"
He sounded like she had just returned without the drink he had asked for.
The #1 seemed fed up with it all as he responded.
"You hadn't figured it out? You were created by passing energy through the Qliphoth according to a special process, so you're made from a type of energy, right? How is that any different from the grimoires that suck energy up from the ground or whatever?" "

 

[Scrlk666777]

No he did not suffer any recoil from using the Anti-Magic spear, at all. Actually learn to read.

The first time we saw him suffer any recoil was when Qliphah inplanted the knowledge into him, not before. The spear thing happened before not after. So again learn to actually read because now you are just embarrassing yourself.

It is CONCEPTUAL energy. What part of this do you fail to understand? I feel like you have absoultely no clue what you are talking about because you clearly cannot read the text right in front of you.

 

[Malox1696]

yes he did get recoil when he used the spear


QUOTE :""Magic God, you still cling to the surface!! So don't think you stand a chance against my master who has crossed the Abyss!!!!!"
An explosive noise burst out.
But it was not the sound of the violent gale Accelerator had been trying to unleash.
This was less distinct.
It was an invisible power that covered every part of the world.
His vector control ability twisted it into a vortex that rushed toward Nephthys like a giant spear.
"Tch!!"
The brown goddess had preserved her beauty even as her torso was blown away, but she finally clicked her tongue and pushed Accelerator off of her. This slightly diverted the spear's trajectory so it only sliced off a tuft of her long silver hair.
Something was different from before.
The separated hair did not reconnect and it simply rotted away.
She rolled away from him.
Once Academy City's #1 monster got up, the translucent demon wrapped her arms around his neck.
She would not run away any more.
She was no longer afraid.
She now understood what her contractual master had said. Don't cry. Don't be afraid. Yes, she could really and truly rely on him, so she did not even need to fear the possibility of her actions harming him!!
"You don't understand magic and you don't know the rules, so that Magic God could mock you and act all omniscient and omnipotent, but that ends now."
In order to truly give him her power and to fight while harming each other, Qliphah Puzzle 545 glared directly at Magic God Nephthys.
"I will provide you with what you need to know by installing the knowledge of the entire tree of seventy-eight cards. It doesn't matter if you are aware of it or not, master. Just control the vectors however feels right to you. All of 'us' will make sure it all works out!!"
A wet sound followed.
Accelerator was supposedly untouchable because he would reflect any and all vectors, but some blood had just left his white skin.
However, the monster smiled.
Why should he be afraid of even a single scratch? He was sick of being treated so fragilely.
A belligerent light shined in his red eyes and Academy City's #1 spoke to his comrade in arms.
"That'll do.""


he did get the recoil, and it's obvious that he would, refining mana is another system that is not supposed to be used by esper

he can control magic and telesma directly without recoil but that does not need the refining process that creates the recoil

he and 545 mixed both magic and his esper power , he can achieve magical and metaphysical attacks but he still needs to cast and mix magic that makes him receive the recoil


but magic in index already cover metaphysical. concepts , laws etc, he is mixing it with his esper power

 

[Scrlk666777]

Since you have once again proven yourself uncapable of reading I will break it down, so even you can understand.

Actually since you need it breaking down to you I will do that.


BEFORE the magical recoil

"Magic God, you still cling to the surface!! So don't think you stand a chance against my master who has crossed the Abyss!!!!!"

An explosive noise burst out.

But it was not the sound of the violent gale Accelerator had been trying to unleash.

This was less distinct.

It was an invisible power that covered every part of the world.

His vector control ability twisted it into a vortex that rushed toward Nephthys like a giant spear.

"Tch!!"

The brown goddess had preserved her beauty even as her torso was blown away, but she finally clicked her tongue and pushed Accelerator off of her. This slightly diverted the spear's trajectory so it only sliced off a tuft of her long silver hair.

Something was different from before.

The separated hair did not reconnect and it simply rotted away.

She rolled away from him.

Once Academy City's #1 monster got up, the translucent demon wrapped her arms around his neck.

She would not run away any more.

She was no longer afraid.

She now understood what her contractual master had said. Don't cry. Don't be afraid. Yes, she could really and truly rely on him, so she did not even need to fear the possibility of her actions harming him!!

WHEN the magical recoil happened

"You don't understand magic and you don't know the rules, so that Magic God could mock you and act all omniscient and omnipotent, but that ends now."

In order to truly give him her power and to fight while harming each other, Qliphah Puzzle 545 glared directly at Magic God Nephthys.

"I will provide you with what you need to know by installing the knowledge of the entire tree of 78 cards. It doesn't matter if you are aware of it or not, master. Just control the vectors however feels right to you. All of 'us' will make sure it all works out!!"

A wet sound followed.

Accelerator was supposedly untouchable because he would reflect any and all vectors, but some blood had just left his white skin.

However, the monster smiled.

Why should he be afraid of even a single scratch? He was sick of being treated so fragilely.

So before the Magical recoil, he uses the spear not during it. It's that simple

Also what are you going on about? Of course he uses his esper ability. That is the WHOLE point.

So I will break it down again and hopefully you will get it.

With his ESPER ability, just to make that clear he can manipulate vectors. RIght have you got that?

Before NT21 he could only manipulate vectors that are related to physics and maths, only. Right? You still caught up?

Now since he has came to understand the laws of Magic etc. he can now manipulate other types of vectors using his ESPER ability, like Magical, Conceptual and Metaphyscal vectors as well as non-physical.

This is all related to his ESPER ability,

 

[Malox1696]

im still not sold on the fact that he can control it directly without using magic in tandem, but as i said do what u want

 

[DestinyDude0]

Holy shit I was laughing my ass off at this exchange

Malox, buddy. Please have some reading comprehension.

 

[Scrlk666777]

im still not sold on the fact that he can control it directly without using magic in tandem, but as i said do what u want

Well yeah, that kinda goes without saying. He is able to do all of this because he has enquired the magical knowledge to do so. The first time he manipulated conceptual vectors in NT21 he gained a little bit of knowledge from being around Aleister etc.. Then he got a magical tutor in Qliphah Everytime he gained more magical knowledge the more potent he became in being able to manipulate them.

He wouldn't have been able to do this prior NT22 because he wouldn't have had the knowledge and the know how to do so.

So while it's not actually using magic, it is using magical knowledge.

Don't forget Accelertor's ability is not just based on calculations but based on his knowledge and understanding of how the laws work.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Holy shit I was laughing my ass off at this exchange
Malox, buddy. Please have some reading comprehension.

I haven't seen you around here for a while. Welcome Back

 

[DestinyDude0]

Holy shit I was laughing my ass off at this exchange
Malox, buddy. Please have some reading comprehension.

I haven't seen you around here for a while. Welcome Back

I voted for the Accel vs Fugil Arcadia match 2 weeks before. And helped OP add in Qliphah's mana-sense/telepathy from another discussion in Accel vs Siberian match.

Did nobody notice my username before this thread? (lol) But yea, I took a small break from battle forums over the summer. I shifted over to Reddit for a while, and now I'm back. Don't expect as much activity as I did when I did the CRT tho. I'm too busy with college.