To Aru: Esper Possibility/Law Revision and Not-So-Minor Accel/Qliphah Revision

[Scrlk666777]

You're coming up with imaginary limits. Are you still going on about that? Mina was made of magic as well, until someone actually defeats Accelerator my mere calcuations your argument has no basis to it/

we know 100% mina beats him thanks to calculation, magic was only involved to make the movement
"Even the #1's reflection is reliant on the calculations you use to control that power. Simply put, you cannot control any vectors with which your conscious and unconscious calculations cannot keep up. Of course, with the brain of Academy City's #1 and the Misaka Network at your disposal, that would not normally present any kind of problem. …Yes, unless you began a benchmark test with a true processing device."


and again it is capped by the Misaka network, which we know is about 50% his original self, that could not overcome full chaos theory for winds of the world ( something the tree diagram and mina could do almost perfectly in tandem)

he can optimize formulas or find more efficient way (like magic which uses 0 calculation power), and obv his calculation power his very high, just not infinite

There you go again, trying to make out Accelerator has weak calculation power. He doesn't.

 

[Malox1696]

well it's only scalling just put it in the ability section

 

[Accelerate420]

Also to note, I remember the quotes Zen posted.

Even if it's passive, his field does still take calc power to produce the result even without his knowledge. Meaning he had to have calculated the potency of the high 1-C energy anyways. I get that making it 'go back' is a lot easier than controlling it for sure but I still wouldn't say 'He can't do it'.

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Accelerate420

I agree, I think we can't say he "can't do it".

But overall it doesn't really matter as this argument is a moot point since we're not looking to add High 1-C AP since as you said it would just cause mental gymnastics.

 

[Malox1696]

reflection is<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< cost calculation intensive than vector control, he can sleep with it on had still reflect anything, is just one equation, unlike vector control that not only needs to calculate the before and after result and interference can mess it up, he actually needs to gather form multiple sources further increasing the burden

 

[Scrlk666777]

Where does it say that he needs to gather from multiple sources? He controls vectors, you know the concept?

 

[Accelerate420]

It'll just go into striking strength/Abilities like Malox said, because we already got funky stuff when we updated his field to High 1-C.

What? No he doesn't. He just needs that singular source of energy to manipulate. Literally not once has he ever needed to draw from multiple forces to produce a result. Unless you're referring to direction and magnitude? Because that's not really a hard one to do since it's a basic formula at that point. I do agree it has a high strain cost but it's still no way NEAR impossible.

 

[Malox1696]

yes but remember that he can make a vector more efficient and have more power only so much, if not there is no need to borrow the planet rotation and etc , so if we go really high he needs more sources of energy/vectors , magic does help a lot in that regard

 

[Malox1696]

It'll just go into striking strength/Abilities like Malox said, because we already got funky stuff when we updated his field to High 1-C.
What? No he doesn't. He just needs that singular source of energy to manipulate. Literally not once has he ever needed to draw from multiple forces to produce a result. Unless you're referring to direction and magnitude? Because that's not really a hard one to do since it's a basic formula at that point. I do agree it has a high strain cost but it's still no way NEAR impossible.

no i meant he WOULD need to gather from multiple sources as i don't recall anything with even 2b power existing from which he can gather and then optimize alone form that source, what was shown up to now is the tree and he shaking the galaxy with it but we don0't know if it has a raw energy potential to be borrowed by that single source to reach a H1C attack

 

[Accelerate420]

Technically speaking he only does that for verasility and for what is onhand. Rotation is everywhere so he abuses that kinetic energy constantly. It's not because he has to borrow it, it's because 'It's there so I'm gonna use this convenient method'.

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Malox It doesn't work like that so try again.

 

[Malox1696]

Technically speaking he only does that for verasility and for what is onhand. Rotation is everywhere so he abuses that kinetic energy constantly. It's not because he has to borrow it, it's because 'It's there so I'm gonna use this convenient method'.

exactly , it's more convenient cause it cost less calculation power and it still drained him to 0

 

[Accelerate420]

It'll just go into striking strength/Abilities like Malox said, because we already got funky stuff when we updated his field to High 1-C.
What? No he doesn't. He just needs that singular source of energy to manipulate. Literally not once has he ever needed to draw from multiple forces to produce a result. Unless you're referring to direction and magnitude? Because that's not really a hard one to do since it's a basic formula at that point. I do agree it has a high strain cost but it's still no way NEAR impossible.

no i meant he WOULD need to gather from multiple sources as i don't recall anything with even 2b power existing from which he can gather and then optimize alone form that source, what was shown up to now is the tree and he shaking the galaxy with it but we don0't know if it has a raw energy potential to be borrowed by that single source to reach a H1C attack

...? The energy sent at him is high-1-C. He manipulates that energy and tosses it back. That's a high 1-C vector attack. I get what you're saying now, but I've never once been arguing that.

I'm saying that if he's met with High 1-C energy he can interact with it, which he can. So his vectors AP wise would still equal out to high 1-C even in manual. It's reliant on the energy/opponent. But it doesn't matter since I'm standing by keeping it to Striking/Reflection AP so as to not get misconception matches.

 

[Scrlk666777]

This once again proves that you believe Accelerator has very little calculation power. I'm suprised you even think he can do anything at all.

Also this has nothing to do with calculation power. I really don't think you have any understanding of how Accel's abilities work.

 

[Malox1696]

...? The energy sent at him is high-1-C. He manipulates that energy and tosses it back. That's a high 1-C vector attack. I get what you're saying now, but I've never once been arguing that.

I'm saying that if he's met with High 1-C energy he can interact with it, which he can. So his vectors AP wise would still equal out to high 1-C even in manual. It's reliant on the energy/opponent.

yes, like that yes , but good luck finding a single source of that in a normal situation

 

[Accelerate420]

Technically speaking he only does that for verasility and for what is onhand. Rotation is everywhere so he abuses that kinetic energy constantly. It's not because he has to borrow it, it's because 'It's there so I'm gonna use this convenient method'.

exactly , it's more convenient cause it cost less calculation power and it still drained him to 0

When did it ever drain him to 0???? What are you talking about? He uses the planets kinetic energy constantly now like when he kicked Coronzon and he didn't give a shit.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Accelerate420

First you have Mina beating Accel, which never happend and now you have Accel being drained from an attack, although that never happened either.

I do question whether or not he has actually read the novels.

 

[Malox1696]

When did it ever drain him to 0???? What are you talking about? He uses the planets kinetic energy constantly now like when he kicked Coronzon and he didn't give a shit.

what i mean is AT THAT TIME he used all his power for that and could not come up with something better

"That strike had used the full power of Academy City's strongest esper and had taken the rotational energy of the earth itself, but even that had not been enough to bring down that windowless building"

again he can optimize and find new sources, but he does have some limit on how much he can multiply a single force

 

[Malox1696]

Accelerate420
First you have Mina beating Accel, which never happend and now you have Accel being drained from an attack, although that never happened either.

I do question whether or not he has actually read the novels.

mina did not beat him , she just has more calculation power

 

[Scrlk666777]

There was no AT THAT TIME. He has never been drained using Kinetic energy.

Again no he doesn't.

 

[Accelerate420]

When did it ever drain him to 0???? What are you talking about? He uses the planets kinetic energy constantly now like when he kicked Coronzon and he didn't give a shit.

what i mean is AT THAT TIME he used all his power for that and could not come up with something better
"That strike had used the full power of Academy City's strongest esper and had taken the rotational energy of the earth itself, but even that had not been enough to bring down that windowless building"

again he can optimize and find new sources, but he does have some limit on how much he can multiply a single force

This argument is so ******* flimsy and it's used all the time.

Do you really expect Accel to pour his entire power into a building toss to destroy the entire city? No. He obviously calced it so it'd be enough to at least bust that building and the small block itself. That's not an indication of a limit, it's an indication of him being careful as shit. He was wrong though as he did not know the properties of the building.

If he used all the power and magnified it as much as he could the entire map would've been wiped if he /REALLY/ wanted to bring down the building. It's not about 'coming up for something better'. He wasted his battery life which is why he threw a fit. He didn't bother going again because he had other priorities.

 

[Malox1696]

There was no AT THAT TIME. He has never been drained using Kinetic energy.
Again no he doesn't.

by drained i mean he used all his calculation power, not drained in the literal sense

 

[Scrlk666777]

Accelerate420
First you have Mina beating Accel, which never happend and now you have Accel being drained from an attack, although that never happened either.

I do question whether or not he has actually read the novels.

mina did not beat him , she just has more calculation power

Well that's not that great a feat, at least according to you since you believe that Accel himself has extremely weak calculation power. So it's not a very great feat for Mina is it, if you believe this.

Also I still don't know why you are bringing Mina up. Find someone who has beaten Accelerator on pure calculation ability with no magic involved. Go on,.I'll wait.

 

[Malox1696]

This argument is so ******* flimsy and it's used all the time.

Do you really expect Accel to pour his entire power into a building toss to destroy the entire city? No. He obviously calced it so it'd be enough to at least bust that building and the small block itself. That's not an indication of a limit, it's an indication of him being careful as shit. He was wrong though as he did not know the properties of the building.

If he used all the power and magnified it as much as he could the entire map would've been wiped if he /REALLY/ wanted to bring down the building.

well no, he literally was enraged and did not really think much about his surrounding or to limit the power :

""Go to ******* hell!! Don't underestimate meeeeeeeeeee!!" he shouted.
He switched on the choker-style electrode on his neck.
His massive calculation ability returned.
Accelerator stood in a narrow back alley and could only see concrete walls in every direction.
But that did not matter.
He knew his absolute coordinates and where his target was located. His eyes rolled in his head. Thanks to his time soaking in the darkness, Accelerator knew in which direction that building was located.
(My enemy is Academy City! The board chairman controls this city!!)
He knew where the windowless building was.
He knew where the shelter of the city's board chairman was.
"Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!"
Accelerator stuck his hand into a nearby concrete wall. He manipulated the vectors so his arm sank in as easily as if the wall was made of tofu. Accelerator shouted so loud blood came from his throat and he moved his arm complexly around in the wall.
He took control of all of the vectors.
A great roar exploded out.
In that instant, earth's rotation slowed by about 5 minutes for September 30.
His arm took the massive energy of the planet's rotation and used his vector control to transform it into a demonic strike.
The concrete wall he forcibly gouged out was thrown with frightening speed. Accelerator stood in an alley surrounded by buildings, but the several buildings between him and his target were torn through like paper.
His worries about his surroundings and unrelated people had completely evaporated for an instant.
By the time he came to his senses, he had already thrown it.
He was over two kilometers from his target.
That windowless building was the world's strongest shelter which was said to be the fortress of Aleister, the chairman of Academy City's board of directors.
It was said that giant structure would not budge even from the shockwave of a nuclear weapon.
The attack flew with frightening speed.
A tremendous storm of noise exploded out. It did not matter that Accelerator was over two kilometers away. It blew straight through two or three unmanned banks and government office buildings, shot between two buildings on the other side of a street, tore off an electronic billboard attached to the side of a high-rise building, and shot straight toward the target. It could only be called a miracle that no one was injured or killed. He had not given it any thought.
Gray dust blew into the air. His vision was temporarily obstructed.
The dust hung in the air for a while.
Finally, his vision cleared up.
It spread out before him.
"…"
Nothing about the world had changed.
That strike had used the full power of Academy City's strongest esper and had taken the rotational energy of the earth itself, but even that had not been enough to bring down that windowless building.
The result was clear.
The wall remained as large as ever.
"Kwaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!"
Accelerator collapsed to his knees and slammed his fist into a filthy puddle. No matter what he did, he could not reach Aleister. Some unknown technique had been used to disperse the impact and he had no proof Aleister was even really there. The entire building could be a decoy. But it did not matter. None of it mattered anymore."

at least at that time he could not find a more powerful attack or source of energy, probably later with addition of magic and coming up with more efficient and better formulas he can reach much higher raw AP without needing many calculations

 

[Accelerate420]

Fair enough. But it still didn't actually drain him. He just sulked and saved his energy. A better comparison would be his feat at the end of the Accel manga arc 1 where he had to use all of his calc power and it immediately made his brain go dead when BFRing the explosion and what not. But then we'd have to take into account that it was Magic and Accel had never once encountered it properly before then.

 

[Scrlk666777]

It was more that he was saving his battery power. He knew he couldn't waste the remaining time trying to get to Aleister when he still had LO to save and only 15 minutes battery power.

 

[Reyzakurrota]

Does in these chapter he collapse because his brain wound opened again. And remember when he use earth revolution energy to go up, he got nosebleed too

 

[Malox1696]

Btw we are arguing on nothing as we don't know the real limit of accel calculations powers, we only know he has

 

[Scrlk666777]

Btw we are arguing on nothing as we don't know the real limit of accel calculations powers, we only know he has

Well according to you it's extremely low, so low he shouldn't even be considered a level 5.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Does in these chapter he collapse because his brain wound opened again. And remember when he use earth revolution energy to go up, he got nosebleed too

This was right after he was shot in the head, he was basically doing too much too soon and not allowing himself the right rest.

 

[Malox1696]

Let's just keep what we have 5b normally with scaling up to H1C , we could just mention it in the durability negation part as it's really only for that

 

[Accelerate420]

That's true. Well at this point this argument doesn't matter so let's await Zen, DT and Lazy's and whoever elses input. I'll probably put it to votes when more people enter, but I assume Malox is in agreement with everything here?

 

[Reyzakurrota]

Well yeah if I remember the doctor even said that if accel a normal people and got this brain injured he will paralyzed entire life

 

[Scrlk666777]

That's true. Well at this point this argument doesn't matter so let's await Zen, DT and Lazy's and whoever elses input. I'll probably put it to votes when more people enter, but I assume Malox is in agreement with everything here?

In case they might not see this thread, the best way to get their attention would probably be through their message wall.

 

[Accelerate420]

I'll give it a day before I start hounding just in case.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I don't think they will mind, I mean they will just get back to you when they have the time really. But I can understand the need not to hound them.

 

[Malox1696]

if u want to add further explanation so that even someone who does not understand physic can actually make sense on why ti would scale to dura : newton 3rd law, to a force there will always be an equal and opposing force, in space this is super obv as astronaut can actually move by literally trowing stuff (for example in case of emergency they trow their toll at the opposite side where they want to go so they can go near their ship, in the first place their mobile suit works by ejecting air in to space where there is nothing and only works by 3rd Newton law)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkVU-bj9bDk

 

[Scrlk666777]

Most actually know how the 3rd newton law works as well as forces. What most don't know is what vectors actually are.

 

[Accelerate420]

Well the Soul manipulation part has been added at least so I think I can remove that chunk.

 

[Accelerate420]

I added some Qliphah tidbits such as Mana/Energy sensing and Telepathic links.

I'll add quotes in a moment.