Tiering System Revisions

[Sera_EX]

Yeah, I think some characters are being immensely high-balled to hyperbolic levels.

 

[FanofRPGs]

@VenomElite
I thought that Umineko, Demon King Daimaou, and the Cthulhu Mythos were built on this principle?

Cthulhu Mythos is.

Hypnos went through vacua beyond dimensioned existence which were limitless and had a limitless number of "barriers" which broke their perception of reality and gave them new perceptions of infinity.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I don't see why we should not try to do so, Outerversal characters aren't really unquantifiable nor are they outside of scrutiny or the applications of some metric, whether they are part of metaphysical phenomena or not. If we can put it into a context, then we can perfectly measure it, it's really that simple. That is one of the many reasons behind why me and Aeyu think religious concepts and similar things should preferably be avoided when dealing with higher tiers such as this: 1-A and 0 are not special in any way, and we should strive to be as professional and objective as possible, at least within a given framework we choose to adopt.

I think I may have needed to word that better, but I didn't really mean "an infinite number of Outerversal Hierarchies" in the OP. I meant infinitely-layered stuff on an Outerversal Scale; pretty much the tier's equivalent of High 1-B.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Demonk King Daimaou

Conglaturatio n!

 

[Antvasima]

I corrected the typo.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Ultima

He isn't saying we shouldn't measure 1-A, he's saying we shouldn't measure it the way Option 1 / 3 does.

I think I may have needed to word that better, but I didn't really mean "an infinite number of Outerversal Hierarchies" in the OP. I meant infinitely-layered stuff on an Outerversal Scale; pretty much the tier's equivalent of High 1-B.

Ooooh. See, that's something entirely different. Yeah there are High 1-B equivocal 1-A characters, few of them, but they do exist.

@Everyone else

Also just to throw this out there, no verse on this site has hierarchies at the absurd Suggs-lite level Ven described that actually scales to their Attack Potency. Not a single one. I'll be happy to debunk any such attempts at claiming such a cosmology already exists on site.

 

[VenomElite]

Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou might, but I see your point.

Daimaou doesn't have that kind of cosmology.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

@Sera

Is he? All options propose basically the same, just structured differently, so I was a bit confused when he said that.

Well, there seems to have been a misunderstanding, if that case.

 

[Sera_EX]

Didn't you say Option 1's 1-A doesn't work for Option 2 and that's why Option 3 kinda doesn't work? Due to how the tiers are arranged?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Yes, because the options propose we arrange the tiers through different standards in the first place. Option 1 proposes we compress all dimensions into 1-C and leave 1-B as the Outerversal tier, while leaving 1-A and up as tiers for separate things entirely. Option 2 proposes we divide Outerversal by Measurable | Immeasurable | Boundless, so it's more symmetrical and the definitions are better separated for each tier.

This isn't really because of the definitions of the tiers themselves, just the way which they are arranged in each option.

 

[Nepuko]

They're the same. From my convo with him yesterday, he didn't seem to really mean that.

Option 3 is Option 2's low 1-A+ made into a tier of its own, Option 1 is basically option 3 but with 1-C and 1-B compressed/fused, Option 2 is Option 1 but with High 1-B being made into a modifier, instead of a tier.

They're all pretty much the same. It's the arrangement that changes.

Option 4, is Option 2...but without the modifier for Infinitely-layered Outerversal, and without even touching the current 1-C and 1-B tiers. Only Outerversal and above.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

I can't wait for...

TIERING REVISION THREE: ELECTRIC BOGALEE

 

[Andytrenom]

Maybe the reason they don't work is layout related? Like all the other problems?


Edit:....we will say this was a ninja

 

[Sera_EX]

Mm. I see, I see.

 

[Nepuko]

Mm. I see, I see.

Naruhodo. *thonk*

 

[Antvasima]

A question if I may:

How are we going to determine the difference between the following tiers in practice?

1-A: Infinite Outerversal Hierarchies.

High 1-A: Denoting characters who exist above Outerversal hierarchies altogether, and lie beyond any scale.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Option 2 sounds like the better of those two.

 

[Nepuko]

@Ant I am no expert, but I think it should be something like :

-Transcending all that

-Seeing them as fiction, for the High 1-As a 1-A and a 10-B are pretty much the same

-No matter how many time syou stack infinities in 1-A, you'll never reach High 1-A

etc.

 

[Antvasima]

@Nepuko

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Siperri123]

Daimaou doesn't have that kind of cosmology.

Daimaou actually has such cosmology. I vote for option 2.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I mainly find the need to split 1-A into so many categories to be pointless. And I for the life of me can't tell the difference between High 1-A and 0 in option 3. Seems superfluous.

 

[Nepuko]

It's the same difference between 1-A and 0 in option 1, 1-A and 0 in option 2, and High 1-A and 0 in 4.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Matt, well high 1-A is literally just 1-A of the previous two options, if it's too similar to 0 the problem would apply to other options as well

 

[Antvasima]

Matthew has a point though. My guesstimation was that the difference between 1-A and 0 is similar to Featherine and The Creator. Featherine transcends the system, but The Creator encompasses all characters that transcend the system.

I don't know if this is correct though.

Take note that it is very possible that my question has been answered previously, but I do not remember what was specified anymore. My apologies.

 

[Sera_EX]

High 1-A: Denoting characters who exist above Outerversal hierarchies altogether, and lie beyond any scale.

That'd be 0.

 

[Nepuko]

@Sera that would mean we should remove 1-A from Option 1 and 2, and High 1-A from Option 4.

It seems like Ultima has to be summoned again ovo.

 

[Sera_EX]

Daimaou doesn't have that kind of cosmology.

Daimaou actually has such cosmology. I vote for option 2.

Daimaou does not have such a cosmology. Daimaou Cthulhu Myth are being ridiculously high-balled for no reason.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Sera we should remove 1-A from Option 1 and 2 ovo.

How...would that even work?

 

[Sera_EX]

You guys are confusing the heck out of me, and it's starting to get on my nerves.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

What is even being discussed here? Assuming Option 3:

Low 1-A = Baseline Outerversal and up

1-A = Infinitely-layered Outerversal stuff and equivalents.

High 1-A = Characters who transcend Outerversal hierarchies that are infinite, or some equivalent of that.

0 = Characters who transcend all of the above.

What part of that is confusing?

 

[Siperri123]

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

High 1-A: Denoting characters who exist above Outerversal hierarchies altogether, and lie beyond any scale.
That'd be 0.

Yeah which is why I prefer Option 2 and Option 4 which don't have it.

 

[Nepuko]

@Sera we should remove 1-A from Option 1 and 2 ovo.

How...would that even work?

Oh, I was not suggesting that. I said that'd be the equivalent of doing that. I.e. bad. Or we redo all options. Because all share their equivalent of High 1-A and 0. It's just called 1-A and 0 in 1 and 2, and High 1-A and 0 in 4.

 

[Nepuko]

High 1-A: Denoting characters who exist above Outerversal hierarchies altogether, and lie beyond any scale.That'd be 0.

Yeah which is why I prefer Option 2 and Option 4 which don't have it.

They do tho. It's just called 1-A in Option 2.......they all have their "Transcending Infinite-layered Outerversal" tier, and the Tier 0.

Heck it's even written in Option 2 that 1-A and 0 are the same as Option 1's.....and Option 3's come from Option 1.

So yea.

Literally the only difference is that Option 2 makes Infinite-layered Outerversal a "+" modifier and not a tier, while Option 4 just don't even have that and skip directly to transcending all Outerversal hierarchies.

 

[Sera_EX]

What's the difference between High 1-A and 0. I finally see what Matt is talking about. This new High 1-A is literally the same as the old High 1-A outside one minor difference. We got rid of that for a reason, so why is it coming back?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

It literally isn't. You are implying it based on whether a character is "Omnipotent" or "Omnipotent + Limitations", which is something that has no place in either the old system or the new system.

High 1-A is for characters who exist above 1-A hierarchies, while 0 is for beings who transcend such characters. It's just based on their power. I don't know what's so confusing about this.

 

[Pritti]

Seeing them as fiction, for the High 1-As a 1-A and a 10-B are pretty much the same

Can we please stop acting like this means something? With the exception of for example, the Overmonitor and The Writer, "seeing as fiction" is figurative speech, it's not literal.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Ultima

You are implying it based on whether a character is "Omnipotent" or "Omnipotent + Limitations"

No I'm not, that's exactly the "minor difference" I mentioned. There is no difference between High 1-A and 0 except the fact that 0s transcend High 1-As.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

That's what the whole system is based on, though. Greater sizes which spiral infinitely upwards.

The point is that old High 1-A has absolutely nothing to do with that, it was just about transcendence over a 1-A cosmology that could range anywhere from baseline to the highest level of blah blah, except the being who transcended it had some minor limitation (such as another entity of similar power) which prevented them from being full-on 0. There were even some users who said High 1-As were Tier 0s themselves, and this redundancy was what led to it being removed.

The Tier proposed here has to do with size / power, while old High 1-A had to do with your standing within your own verse. Comparing the two is comparing bananas to goats.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

At this point we are basically just stacking qualitative superiorities. It's not that complicated. If you have a qualitative difference over a Low 1-A or a 1-A, then you are a High 1-A. If you have a qualitative difference over them, you are tier 0.