Tiering System Revisions

[Sera_EX]

Just do this:

Low 1-A - Baseline Outerversal to infinite levels above.

Examples: Most currently 1-A characters

1-A - Characters above Outerversal hierarchies

Examples: High End 1-As and some of the "weaker" current Tier 0s

Tier 0 - Above 1-A to the same extent that 1-A is above LOW 1-A

Examples: big Bois like Azathoty, Amaranth, The Creator and The Writer

Alternatively if you want to name it just 1-A, High 1-A and 0. That's fine.

High 1-B and below like in Aeyu's list.

I'd say make Low 1-A = 1-A and 1-A = High 1-A and then it's fine (aka there will be no Low 1-A in this ver.) It's nonsensical to have baseline outerversal be Low 1-A. It does not seem to be based in reason, but rather a mere dislike of High 1-A regardless of its defintion. I also find it strange that people didn't want Low 3-A to be baseline Universe level (observable universe) yet want Low 1-A to be baseline Outerverse level (low outerverse).

"Low" tiers are never the baseline for what those tiers actually are. Low 5-B is not baseline Planet level, it's Small Planet level. The lowest value for planet level (Earth) starts with 5-B. Guys like Mercurius aren't weak outerversals, so why would they be put in Low 1-A followed by an infinite hierarchy? Meanwhile, normal 1-A would be for the Overmonitor and beings on that scale. Makes no sense.

P.S: This isn't a response to Matt, I'm just using his reply as a reference so people know what I'm talking about.

 

[Dvorak1902]

@Dvorak you're basically suggesting the equivalent of fusing current 1-B with current 1-A.

Yeah, because fusing 15000 characters between 10-C and 1-A is the same as fusing 3 characters between High 1-A and 0.

I wasn't "suggesting" it. I only said that fusing them wouldn't be a logistical problem if we **** up, and therefore shouldn't really matter for this discussion.

 

[Dvorak1902]

Why don't we try to advance progressively? First lets do a poll on wether "Uncountable Infinite Dimensions" should be a Tier or not. Then we do another question and another poll.

 

[Nepuko]

@Dvorak you're basically suggesting the equivalent of fusing current 1-B with current 1-A.

Yeah, because fusing 15000 characters between 10-C and 1-A is the same as fusing 3 characters between High 1-A and 0.

I was very clearly talking about the logic itself behind it, the number of characters is irrelevant. Plus, i said 1-B and 1-A but you mentioned 10-C and 1-A....?

 

[Antvasima]

@Sera

What about this adjustment to Matthew's suggestion?

 

[Nepuko]

Repost :

--- @Antvasima Current vote count. Some of these votes were done before the introduction of Option 3 and 4, but I'll still count them.

@Everyone Please correct me if you changed your mind, or if I forgot to include you, etc.


Option 1 : AogiriKira , Dargoo Faust , ProudLearner , AshenCrow777 , The Wright Way , Agnaa , Assaltwaffle , MinarutoKSM ,ZephyrosOmega , .

Total votes : 9 votes.


Option 2 : Matthew Schroeder , KnightOfSunlight , Marius the grey , Uninow , Sadistic Sleuth , Hrdlifil , DarkLK , SinsofMa , KLOL506 , TheVoidWalker69 , FanofRPGs , ZacharyGrossman273 , Shadowbokunohero , GojiBoyForever , Ovy7 , Crabwhale , Promestei , Siperri123 , Apex PredatorX ,Dvorak1902

Totals votes : 20 votes.


Option 3: Antvasima , Nepuko , Ercosore , Elizhaa , The God Of Procrastinatio , DontTalkDT , Ionliosite , Sage Exterminatio , Celestial Pegasus , TISSG7Redgrave , Malomtek , ÆONS , Iapitus The Impaler , Tony di bugalu , The Empyrea , Daoist ko , Warren Valio , Lightbuster30 , Yobo Blue , Sadistic Sleuth , Paul Frank , Gilad Hyperstar , Bobsica , ThePerpetual ,Iamunanimousinthat , Dargoo Faust , Karmicto , Mr.Cinos15 , Immortalgodd , I'm Blue daba dee daba die , PsychoWarper , LSirLancelotDuLacl

Total votes : 32 votes.


Option 4 : DarkDragonMedeus , Matthew Schroeder , The 2nd Existential Seed ,Andytrenom , Dvorak1902 , KingPin0422

Total votes : 6 votes. ---

 

[Maxnumb231]

Transcending Infinitely-layered Outerversal Hierarchy (or Infinite trascendences above baseline) makes you "Beyond the Outerversal Hierarchy".

I hope it's clear....

The only thing that misunderstood is being "beyond" infinite outerversal hierarchy is still not enough to be to be suppsoed high 1-A, as for example akuto's story can be seen as 1-A due to its infinite hierarchies that makes him 1-A. however akuto transcends the story he created, which means merely transcending the said infinite outerversal hierarchy is not enough as u need to be beyond scale of the hierarchy itself.

 

[Nepuko]

I'm not sure what's the deal about Akuto, but yes this is why I was talking "roughly". Maybe I should have been more precise, sorry for that.

 

[Maxnumb231]

its an example made bcuz akuto himself transcends the infinite hierarchy that he has which still puts him at 1-A, however void body is a different story due to reasoning.

 

[Antvasima]

We only have 51 replies left, so we need a new discussion thread as soon as possible. Perhaps this one should be in the staff forum?

 

[Siperri123]

Transcending Infinitely-layered Outerversal Hierarchy (or Infinite trascendences above baseline) makes you "Beyond the Outerversal Hierarchy".

I hope it's clear....

If this is the definition of 1-A, any soul within akuto's story goes completely beyond what you say. I agree with Matthew, what we need to change is the definition for tier 1-A.

 

[Dvorak1902]

I was very clearly talking about the logic itself behind it, the number of characters is irrelevant. Plus, i said 1-B and 1-A but you mentioned 10-C and 1-A....?

I said 10-C because if the logic is fusing two hierarchies with a qualitative difference, it would be more of a comparison between 10-C to High 1-B with 1-A and High 1-A with 0, than between 1-B with 1-A and High 1-A with 0.

And my point is that even if said comparison is correct in principle, saying that it is correct in practice is an exaggeration. Because the first is a matter of thousands of profiles, while the second concerns around five characters at most.

 

[Nepuko]

@Siperri as I said two times already by now, I was talking roughly. If you want to see the definition, go look up the OP.

 

[Sera_EX]

We need to leave outerversal alone. All we need to do is apply the new metric. It doesn't even require screwing with the tiers too much. This is why Option 1 is such a bad idea and I don't even know what Option 4 is. Option 3 is now bad because it isn't even the original option 3 since it's been significantly misrepresented as the discussion went on thanks to fear-mongering over High 1-A and miscommunication.

Mostly everyone agrees with the metric itself and the higher-dimensional stuff. It's the dumb outerversal crap we've repeatedly argued over. To differentiate characters like Featherine from the Chousin, simply re-add High 1-A. It's new definition being "transcends outerversal hierarchies". It's so simple. Basically, just go with Option 2. If we really need a tier for uncountable infinite dimensions, we can make that High 1-B, make infinite dimensions 1-B, and make 12D onwards Low 1-B.

 

[Nepuko]

@Dvorak I don't think it'll be a good idea. You're basically saying that if High 1-B and 1-A, 2 different hierachies, had only a few characters you'll gladly fuse them? I think this is wrong, as the goal of the wiki is still to aptly tier characters. Also, the difference between 1-A and High 1-A here is rather the equivalent of current High 1-B and current 1-A. Putting current 1-A characters into current High 1-B seems kinda....weird, imo. Which is why I don't think we should do that to 1-A and High 1-A.

@Sera Just wanted to say that the Option 3 in the OP is the exact same to the one I was talking about in the previous thread tho.

 

[Sera_EX]

It's still being misrepresented due to miscommunication. High 1-A in Option 3 is supposed to be 1-A from Option 1, that's the entire reason Option 3 even exists. However, Matt is convinced for some reason that it isn't, most likely due to the wrong terminology being used to describe it.

 

[Nepuko]

@Sera Ex I believe since he didn't reply to my answer, that my reply got through.

Seriously tho Sewa, honestly speaking, look at these copy-paste (I didn't change or modify a single word) from the OP between Option 1's 1-A, and Option 3's High 1-A and tell me how can miscommunication happen :

Option 1 : 1-A is made into a tier of its own, denoting characters who exist above Outerversal hierarchies altogether, and lie beyond any scale.

Option 2 : 1-A and 0 are basically the same as Option 1

Option 3 : High 1-A: Denoting characters who exist above Outerversal hierarchies altogether, and lie beyond any scale.


Word for word Ctrl+V. You can check the OP, and you'll see they're the exact same there as well.....t-this is beyond me really.

Unless Option 1 itself is misworded, in which case it is another can of worms.... Anyway, I'll refrain from commenting unless a bit necessary since we're approaching the limit.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Is Ultima willing to restart this as a staff only thread, with options 2 and 3 to choose from? Or is it fine if Sera or Nepuko handle it as well?

 

[Nepuko]

If the new thread is going to be Staff Only, I probably would sadly be unable to comment there. So while honestly at this point whether it's 2 or 3 I don't care about that as much as before (I'd just like this to advance to the next stage), I still prefer 3, so I'd just like to say in advance : I hope the.....Democratic Voting results won't suddenly be ignored... ;-;

If possible tho, I think we should preferably resolve the option choice here. I don't think another thread is needed for that. If the two sides are still arguing, just look at the votes and decide the winner, I say.. But whatever is best, I suppose....T_T

 

[KingPin0422]

I will make one last post here:

Even though I voted for option 4, option 2 is basically just as good IMO. I only voted for option 4 because it would be the least work-intensive out of the options (though it looks like most people don't really care about the workload, so this is kind of a moot point), and also because I find its overall 1-A category to be better.

I mean, an uncountably infinite number of dimensions is already weakly inaccessible to a countably infinite number of dimensions, so it being Low 1-A is acceptable. I get that it's not fundamentally beyond the Hausdorff measure and spatio-temporal dimensionality, but as pointed out earlier, you can be aspatial + atemporal without being 1-A.

I support options 2 and 4 more-or-less equally, but for option 2, I think that moving Low 1-A to 1-A and 1-A to High 1-A would be preferable. Frankly, I don't understand why having a tier labeled "High 1-A" would be so bad. It feels like people are opposed to it based purely on personal/semantic reasons.

Lastly, I've said multiple times before that I do not like option 3. As of this post, I would like to announce that I am no longer so opposed to it. As it turns out, there are potentially six verses with infinitely outerversal characters:

• Cthulhu Mythos (Hypnos qualifies)
• Manifold trilogy (the Goddess of the Manifold qualifies)
• Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou (Akuto Sai qualifies)
• 07th Expansion (I'm told that some characters from here qualify, but I'm not sure who)
• Discworld (Azrael potentially qualifies)
• Dies Irae (the Gods are this high at the low end)

So, I can now see the point in having an independent tier for "infinite outerversal". But I will need some time to consider if I am going to change my vote.

Now that I have gotten all of this off of my chest, I will take my leave. I hope this thread does not devolve into further chaos.

 

[Antvasima]

@Nepuko

Given how much help that you have been, I think that you can be allowed to comment there.

 

[Nepuko]

@ Antvasima Oh? Thanks! I'm honoured, glad I was of help .

@KingPin Thanks for your input. I'm relatively new so I wasn't sure of this before, but if that number is enough for a tier then I'm 100% Option 3 now. I wanna hit myself so bad now......>_<

Also, as you KingPin told me in discord, Infinite Outerversal being the core of 1-A fits with Option 3's 1-B. Option 3 has infinite dimensions as normal 1-B (as do 2 as well), so infinite outerversal being normal 1-A would fit with that.

With this, the last few small "issues" I had with Option 3 are fully gone. I also think the problem Andy was mentioning about Infinite-Outerversal being the core of 1-A is kinda resolved as well. After all it mirrors the Hyperversal part .


Thank you for your help, KingPin. Your comment was very helpful, at least to me.

 

[Siperri123]

hypnos? he didn't even pass the first gate in a gates hierarchy, why is he 1-A?.

 

[Nepuko]

@Siperri123 I really hope I'm not offending, but I think that with 30 replies left it's best not to derail any further. I suggest you ask that in his Message Wall, if @KingPin dosen't mind.

 

[Maxnumb231]

hypnos? he didn't even pass the first gate in a gates hierarchy, why is he 1-A?.

vacua is the reason for it

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Nepuko. Let's stop commenting any more here, and let Ultima or Sera start a new thread instead, after which they should link to it here.

 

[Siperri123]

Yes, I'm sorry for that.

 

[Jockey-1337]

@Jockey "Transcending" Infinitely-layered dimensions (High 1-B) makes you current 1-A. Roughly, you basically transcend the "Dimensional Hierarchy". So, in very rough terms, you're "beyond the Dimensional Hierarchy".
Transcending Infinitely-layered Outerversal Hierarchy (or Infinite trascendences above baseline) makes you "Beyond the Outerversal Hierarchy".

I hope it's clear....

Dimensional and outerversal stuff are different things. We talk about outerversal stuff where every next level may transcend every previous one.

 

[Antvasima]

No more talking here please.

 

[Malomtek]

so is everything decided now

 

[Antvasima]

Not yet.

We are waiting for a thread restart. No talking here until then please, as we are almost out of available posts.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3549291

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the help. I will close this then.