Tier 2 requirements and examples - Part 2

[Theglassman12]

DT’s arguments is fine by me. Don’t see the reason why timestop or an explosion would contradict anything higher than Low 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

Since your arguments here seem to have been accepted, @DontTalkDT , would would be willing to apply the changes that you find most appropriate please?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Since your arguments here seem to have been accepted, @DontTalkDT , would would be willing to apply the changes that you find most appropriate please?

we are applying a page, adding a whole section to the universe page, we will edit it then someone can read it and then we apply it

 

[ImmortalDread]

Since your arguments here seem to have been accepted, @DontTalkDT , would would be willing to apply the changes that you find most appropriate please?

You are not trusting me?

 

[Antvasima]

we are applying a page, adding a whole section to the universe page, we will edit it then someone can read it and then we apply it

Okay. As long as the wording is exactly as DontTalk has accepted it should be fine.

You are not trusting me?

I trust you fine. I just prefer if the revision is applied exactly as DontTalk wants it to be.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Okay. As long as the wording is exactly as DontTalk has accepted it should be fine.

There are some grammar errors in her wording, so I will better rephrase those in my way, but the outcome will be definitely same.

I trust you fine. I just prefer if the revision is applied exactly as DontTalk wants it to be.

I don't disagree with DT at all. Actually me and Pain are fine of what she/he suggested it tho!

 

[Reiner04]

she/he

Hmmm

 

[ImmortalDread]

Hmmm

I got confused because of you actually, even tho I know the person's gender lol.

 

[Reiner04]

I got confused because of you actually, even tho I know the person's gender lol.

It's fine. I appreciate the confusion regardless.

 

[PrinceofPein]

1

The concept of a "different dimension" should not be automatically assumed to indicate spatio-temporal separation as not all dimensions or universes necessarily meet this criterion without further clarification.

this part will be moved up to the first section, universe section is the first section obviously
and changed to this

In fiction there are cases where a wall or some non-physical analog separates two realms. However, while such a barrier might serve to separate the realms within the cosmology of said fiction, not ethat the spaces are not necessarily separate universes by our standards. That is because, while the wall may make it difficult in practice, one could in theory still move from one realm to the other with just regular three dimensional movement. That means that the realms would then still be part of one common three dimensional space, which by our standards constitutes only one universe.

2

• A realm having time that works somewhat differently is not enough to be considered a Universe as nonlinear time within a single universe exists. And the realm should still have a confirmed appropriate size to back it up.

this should be haxed

3

• Time Travel: When considering "dimensions" or "universes", it is important to keep in mind that time travel should not be possible between universes which we factually know are not branching off each other. Interfering with the time in one timeline should not have an effect on another timeline, as this would indicate a lack of separation
  • However, there are exceptions to this rule. Some verses may have a concept of "meta-time" that allows for such oddities, though nevertheless it is important to note that these still constitute mere exceptions and not the general norm, and evidence is required to support the claim that a higher form of time is at play.

I added the bolded part

4.

• If you have two 3-dimensional universes separated by a 4-dimensional gap, they would be spatially separated but temporally connected due to the addition of a temporal axis that encompasses the entire system.

should be changed to

If there is no evidence of the contrary timelines are assumed to share the same time axis i.e. the same dimension of time. Note that sharing the same temporal axis does not mean that they would be connected in any way, as it only means that their time flows in the same direction. It's like two people can both move in the same direction without their paths ever meeting, as long as they started in different places.

5.
Timestop should be removed from the criteria of different universes feat and just leave time travel

 

[ImmortalDread]

Thanks for pointing out!, I will work on it now (but with my rewording)

 

[Reiner04]

So, DT statement confirms that having same temporal dimension doesn't necessarily mean dimensions or universes are within same spacetime.

 

[Antvasima]

After you have finished with your preparations, please write your full suggested text here, so DontTalk can evaluate it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

After you have finished with your preparations, please write your full suggested text here, so DontTalk can evaluate it.

Obviously! For sure, I am glad I am helping with this case.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. You seem quite reliable regarding these types of tasks.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@PrinceofPein mind checking the draft once again and point out if I did any errors?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

So, DT statement confirms that having same temporal dimension doesn't necessarily mean dimensions or universes are within same spacetime.

I mostly prefer case by case as fiction don’t usually tend to go into details about this kind of thing.

After all, it is more so if they do actually share the same space and same time since as far as I am aware, this is merely within what is assumed based on how a multiverse can function and stuff.

Also, if the universes are just merely separated by distance between one another. Well, it can basically means they can been crossed by 3 dimensional means.

 

[PrinceofPein]

So, DT statement confirms that having same temporal dimension doesn't necessarily mean dimensions or universes are within same spacetime.

Literally all universes have the same temporal dimensions, or you know of a universe where time flows backward?
having the same temporal dimension is not proof something is of different dimensions and neitehr proof it is not.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Actually a universe lacks a temporary dimension, it would be considered an extraordinary claim.

 

[Omegabronic]

Literally all universes have the same temporal dimensions, or you know of a universe where time flows backward?
having the same temporal dimension is not proof something is of different dimensions and neitehr proof it is not.

i am confused now, what does this mean?

 

[PrinceofPein]

@PrinceofPein mind checking the draft once again and point out if I did any errors?

the branching stuff should specifically mention branching timeline
then the same time axis point should just be original of what was said here, you are inflating and using more complex words, we are going for simple here.
Also the wall point in the space-continuum section should be removed, there is one in the universe section already

i am confused now, what does this mean?

it means time flows in the same direction for every universe, temporal axis is simply the direction in which time flows

 

[ImmortalDread]

the branching stuff should specifically mention branching timeline
then the same time axis point should just be original of what was said here, you are inflating and using more complex words, we are going for simple here.
Also the wall point in the space-continuum section should be removed, there is one in the universe section already

Can you specify what you need like you did above, also I am not using any complex words.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Should I completely remove this or simply move it to the upper section (universe)?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Can you specify what you need like you did above, also I am not using any complex words.

1. the part about time travel should include branching timeline, and not just "branching"
2.

Should I completely remove this or simply move it to the upper section (universe)?

These should be the exact wording for the one below, do not change it, yours can be confusing, this is straighforward

If there is no evidence of the contrary timelines are assumed to share the same time axis i.e. the same dimension of time. Note that sharing the same temporal axis does not mean that they would be connected in any way, as it only means that their time flows in the same direction. It's like two people can both move in the same direction without their paths ever meeting, as long as they started in different places.

3. remove this

It is widely acknowledged that the existence of a dimensional wall serves as a delimiter between various dimensions. However, it is important to note that the presence of this barrier does not necessarily indicate a complete spatio-temporal separation between the dimensions in question, as defined by not occupying any points in time and space. Instead, the presence of this dividing wall simply serves to distinguish between the dimensions, even if they share a common time axis. Without the presence of this wall, the dimensions would be indistinguishable and would no longer be considered separate.

since we have this already

• In the realm of fiction, instances arise where a wall or an intangible partition demarcates two distinct realms. Nonetheless, while such barriers may effectively segregate the realms within the context of the fiction's cosmology, it is important to note that these spaces may not conform to our standards of separate universes. This is because, despite the wall presenting practical challenges, one could theoretically traverse from one realm to another using typical three-dimensional motion. Consequently, the realms remain components of a single three-dimensional space, which we classify as a solitary universe.

and this should just be the OG one I sent, this is too complex, this is straighforward

In fiction there are cases where a wall or some non-physical analog separates two realms. However, while such a barrier might serve to separate the realms within the cosmology of said fiction, not ethat the spaces are not necessarily separate universes by our standards. That is because, while the wall may make it difficult in practice, one could in theory still move from one realm to the other with just regular three dimensional movement. That means that the realms would then still be part of one common three dimensional space, which by our standards constitutes only one universe.

What we are going for is simpe and straightforward, in a way anyone can understand it

 

[ImmortalDread]

lol, sure, even tho I prefer the version I made.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Literally all universes have the same temporal dimensions, or you know of a universe where time flows backward?
having the same temporal dimension is not proof something is of different dimensions and neitehr proof it is not.

Well, more like multiple dimensions temporally as well too. If they all share the same temporal dimension, naturally they will been affected by one changes in a universe and (in theory) cause changes in different universes.

However, if they are simply parallel universes, their history will have differences and similarities that deviated from one another as well as simply having to not affected one another ie. Universe A isn’t affected by the changes in Universe B and vice versa. Only changes from Universe A affected Universe A and Universe B is affected by changes of universe B.

There will have to been under specific circumstances for changes to occur in both universes and affect one another.

Anyway, that is all I have to say here.

 

[Omegabronic]

Well, more like multiple dimensions temporally as well too. If they all share the same temporal dimension, naturally they will been affected by one changes in a universe and (in theory) cause changes in different universes.

However, if they are simply parallel universes, their history will have differences and similarities that deviated from one another as well as simply having to not affected one another ie. Universe A isn’t affected by the changes in Universe B and vice versa. Only changes from Universe A affected Universe A and Universe B is affected by changes of universe B.

There will have to been under specific circumstances for changes to occur in both universes and affect one another.

Anyway, that is all I have to say here.

So normally if a change in the history of one universe affects multiple, they are pressumed of existing in the same space time?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

So normally if a change in the history of one universe affects multiple, they are pressumed of existing in the same space time?

Yes, as simple as it can get there. It will been Tier 2 of course as I do consider it as such.

 

[ImmortalDread]

lol, sure, even tho I prefer the version I made.

I am sorry, but yours contains a lot of grammar errors.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also, I was a bit late to respond to Executor’s points, in more detail, he made earlier as he mentioned models…. Not sure if I agree with his reasoning completely as it is partially correct yet partially incorrect too.

Oh well, too late on that on my part.

 

[ImmortalDread]

So currently, I did like this

I added to universe section those

• A Universe cannot be defined solely by having a time that operates differently because nonlinear time exists within a single universe. Additionally, the size of the realm must be confirmed to support its classification as a Universe.

I added this to space-time continuum

• Time Travel: When considering “dimensions” or “universes”, it is important to keep in mind that time travel should not be possible between universes which we factually know are not branching timelines off each other. Interfering with the time in one timeline should not have an effect on another timeline, as this would indicate a lack of separation.
  • However, there are exceptions to this rule. Some verses may have a concept of “meta-time" that allows for such oddities, though nevertheless it is important to note that these still constitute mere exceptions and not the general norm, and evidence is required to support the claim that a higher form of time is at play.

• In the realm of fiction, instances arise where a wall or an intangible partition demarcates two distinct realms. Nonetheless, while such barriers may effectively segregate the realms within the context of the fiction's cosmology, it is important to note that these spaces may not conform to our standards of separate universes. This is because, despite the wall presenting practical challenges, one could theoretically traverse from one realm to another using typical three-dimensional motion. Consequently, the realms remain components of a single three-dimensional space, which we classify as a solitary universe.
  • In the absence of evidence to the contrary, it is assumed that timelines share the same time axis or dimension. However, it's important to note that sharing a temporal axis doesn't imply any connection between them, but rather that time flows in the same direction. This can be likened to two people moving in the same direction without their paths intersecting, provided they began from different starting points.

I removed this from space-time continuum

The concept of a "different dimension" should not be automatically assumed to indicate spatio-temporal separation as not all dimensions or universes necessarily meet this criterion without further clarification.

It is widely acknowledged that the existence of a dimensional wall serves as a delimiter between various dimensions. However, it is important to note that the presence of this barrier does not necessarily indicate a complete spatio-temporal separation between the dimensions in question, as defined by not occupying any points in time and space. Instead, the presence of this dividing wall simply serves to distinguish between the dimensions, even if they share a common time axis. Without the presence of this wall, the dimensions would be indistinguishable and would no longer be considered separate.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@PrinceofPein https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:ImmortalDread/Space-time_continuum, You can now check it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also, I did not find anything about timestop, are you sure about that?

 

[Omegabronic]

i currently have some doubts about the standards for some topics, i think that a "regular standards" part on the pages would help a lot for not only me, but for general users who would want a resume of the standard for things

 

[ImmortalDread]

And what are your doubts exactly?

 

[Omegabronic]

And what are your doubts exactly?

basically, the standard notion for a structure that is called "universe" is that it is a space time continuum, correct? on this notion there are some topics about it that confuse me a little:

1 time travel: imagine a verse that has numerous structures that are called "universes" in verse, some of them have a planet of the same name, but we are never told that they are branches of each other or something like that, and in this hypothetical verse, someone time travel to the past and only interferes in one of the said "universes" and yet a whole timeline branches off and all of the said "universes" are equally branched even when the said time travel doesn't happen in them, so my doubt would be, what is the standard for this type of stuff? i heard from DDM and Executor_N0 in other threads that there is a specific kind of multiverse that would allow them all to be affected and still all still being separated space times per out standard assumption of universe=space time even with the time travel affecting all of them, so what is the standard for this type of stuff? do we go with the assumption of the different type of multiverse or do we go with the notion that none of these said universes are separated space times but rather different dimensions inside the same space time continuum?

2 the part about the higher dimension separating space times: imagine that in the verse i proposed above there is a dimension separating the "universes", this said dimension has its own cosmos and 3D beings can move inside of it, i heard earlier in this thread that there needs to be a statement of, if there is a dimension separating the space times, that there would need a statement or proof of it being a higher dimension for it to not be an anti feat for a "universe" to be a space time, so my question in specific is, what serves as a proof for a higher dimension between space times? and what would be anti feats for it?

to note to anyone reading this, this is not an analogy to any verse in particular, this is me being confused about the standards and wanting to sure about them

 

[PrinceofPein]

So currently, I did like this

I added to universe section those

I added this to space-time continuum


I removed this from space-time continuum

Again if it has grammar errors, correct them, not like change the entire thing, correct the grammar errors don't change the structure of it.
Not just that, but there are little stuffs I want to remove and add, Since it is an editable blog, I will do it myself when I am home.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Again if it has grammar errors, correct them, not like change the entire thing, correct the grammar errors don't change the structure of it.
Not just that, but there are little stuffs I want to remove and add, Since it is an editable blog, I will do it myself when I am home.

They both are... the same. Pain, I feel you are complicating it.

Also, what do you want to add or remove? I need to be updated.

 

[PrinceofPein]

They both are... the same. Pain, I feel you are complicating it.

Also, what do you want to add or remove? I need to be updated.

just exchanging complex stuffs for simple and more easy to understand stuffs, there are a lot so I cannot be listing them out, but I will do it when I get home

 

[ImmortalDread]

Hopes you don't ruin the structure I created in that sandbox.