Tier 2 requirements and examples - Part 2

[KLOL506]

Branching timelines are still tier 2C/2B/2A structures depends on the number of timelines they have. What has been changed now is that it's pretty depends on the way branching timelines have gotten destroyed rather than their structure, like if destroying past destroys the future and it's timeline, they'll just be 3A but if the mode of destruction destroys all of them all together (like a single explosion engulfing all of them together) then they're still tier 2 C/2B/2A. They just don't have to be dependent on main timeline.

But yeah, a thread can be made for them with list of verses that seems to be affected with this revision.

I'd rather the verses be handled on a case-by-case basis instead.

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Guacamolefletcher there is a hax called creation

and for the verses affected by this, I will go through all tier 2 pages, make a list of all the verses affected, then try and handle it with the supporters one by one in a thread

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@DontTalkDT

ImmortalDread/Space-time continuum

vsbattles.fandom.com

You can evaluate this once again.

Is it possible to add/list some examples on "what qualifies" a realm to be a Low 2-C universe?

Say for example it's called a "spacetime" and the realm has "stars" and "planets" and is shown or implied to have "galaxies."

Would be that okay?

Edit: when it's not made very clear in story*

 

[PrinceofPein]

Is it possible to add/list some examples on "what qualifies" a realm to be a Low 2-C universe?

Say for example it's called a "spacetime" and the realm has "stars" and "planets" and is shown or implied to have "galaxies."

Would be that okay?

Edit: when it's not made very clear in story*

its there already

 

[Omegabronic]

Just to ask, just being called univrrse is still enough for it to be a space time right?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Just to ask, just being called univrrse is not enough for it to be a space time anymore right?

huh? where did you see that? but to answer, that is incorrect

 

[Omegabronic]

huh? where did you see that? but to answer, that is incorrect

Wait it was a typo, i meant "stilk enough" instead of "not enough"

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

huh? where did you see that? but to answer, that is incorrect

Along those lines, if there is "infinite universes" the default assumption is still 2-A? We domt automatically assume it's High 3-A do now do we? Assuming a verse does not five any further elaboration.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Along those lines, if there is "infinite universes" the default assumption is still 2-A? We domt automatically assume it's High 3-A do now do we? Assuming a verse does not five any further elaboration.

yes the default assumption will be 2-A cosmology, but if there was some statement that ***** the verse up, then well H3A

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT

It seems like we need your help to conclude this thread.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yes, I mean the major part is done already, just to see if he is okay with the draft.
Also how do we go about the verses that this are affected by?
Do I make a thread to go through all tier 2 verses, or just hope people would see the verse and fix it themselves?

 

[Omegabronic]

Yes, I mean the major part is done already, just to see if he is okay with the draft.
Also how do we go about the verses that this are affected by?
Do I make a thread to go through all tier 2 verses, or just hope people would see the verse and fix it themselves?

I think it would be better to see all the verses affected, and then make one thread for each, i would take time, but i think that it would be the most organized way

 

[PrinceofPein]

It is the weekends, so bump

 

[ImmortalDread]

Is there anything I need to do? I have now access to my PC.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Is there anything I need to do? I have now access to my PC.

nothing, just DT, edit or evaluation

 

[Omegabronic]

btw what is th standard for different universes that are all equally affected by time paradoxes?

 

[PrinceofPein]

btw what is th standard for different universes that are all equally affected by time paradoxes?

A single timeline

 

[Omegabronic]

A single timeline

as in, all are part of a single low 2-C structure?

 

[PrinceofPein]

as in, all are part of a single low 2-C structure?

yes pretty much that, and their destruction will be counted as a single low 2-C structure for tiering purposes

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

yes pretty much that, and their destruction will be counted as a single low 2-C structure for tiering purposes

Question, are we assuming it's all 1 temporal axis? Did I understand it right? I remember a conversation Ultima had on his message wall that Time Travel that creates a multiverse involves a second temporal Axis/dimension. It's just it's impact on tiering is minimal to almost negligent. This is what he said

It depends pretty heavily on the specifics of the cosmology, overall.

For instance, take some hypothetical setting where altering the past of a timeline's past simply causes it to be rewritten, instead of giving birth to another timeline. If, somehow, all of these states of the timeline (Both the timeline before it was rewritten and the timeline after it was rewritten) are recorded within some other flow of time (Just like the normal time-axis records a static "picture" of the universe in each of its points), and thus able to be travelled through in spite of the aforementioned alterations obviously being retroactive, then, it is sensible to assume a second temporal dimension is at play here, yeah.

Now, this is where an important distinction is made here: Namely, whether this temporal dimension is continuous or discrete.

A discrete set, as the name implies, is basically one where each of its elements come in steps and are separated from one another by some gap. You can picture that by taking a pen and drawing a few spaced dots on a piece of paper (Pretty much like this: · · · · · ·...), and an actual example of a set like that would be the set of all natural numbers (1, 2, 3, 4, 5...)

A continuous set, on the other hand, is one where there are no gaps between any of its elements, which you can picture by just drawing a line on a piece of paper instead of a bunch of points. An example of that would be the real numbers (Which you obviously can't enumerate, since there's always infinitely-many real numbers between any two numbers you decide to pick, and hence, no gaps between them)

For obvious reasons, if something is explicitly stated to be a timeline or a spacetime continuum, the latter is what we stick to, and in fact, space and time being a continuous set is pretty much the default assumption in physics, and thus, if something is explicitly stated to be a flow of time, it's safe to assume it abides by the latter option.
This is a key point for Low 2-C in particular: If the flow of time is continuous, then it has uncountably infinite points, and therefore, contains uncountably-many copies of the 3-D universe.

However, if there are no explicit statements affirming the existence of a second temporal axis, and instead just an implication that something like one must exist, then it being discrete becomes a possibility. For example, take any verse where a timeline is only created once someone time travels; in such a case, the second temporal dimension would only advance in discrete steps, and thus, it wouldn't really amount to much, tiering-wise.

So, yeah, arguing for that without explicit statements is pretty hard

This js what he said. I had the comment saved but not a link to it.

 

[Reiner04]

Question, are we assuming it's all 1 temporal axis? Did I understand it right? I remember a conversation Ultima had on his message wall that Time Travel that creates a multiverse involves a second temporal Axis/dimension. It's just it's impact on tiering is minimal to almost negligent. This is what he said



This js what he said. I had the comment saved but not a link to it.

It has been said by DT as well (long ago)

 

[PrinceofPein]

Question, are we assuming it's all 1 temporal axis? Did I understand it right? I remember a conversation Ultima had on his message wall that Time Travel that creates a multiverse involves a second temporal Axis/dimension. It's just it's impact on tiering is minimal to almost negligent. This is what he said



This js what he said. I had the comment saved but not a link to it.

The question he asked is if universes that are affected by time manipulation in one, considered a single timeline and that is yes, they are now a single timeline.
And also temporal axis, is kind of a weird term, since time flows in one direction, well so one axis, a different axis will require time flowing in a different direction. So I will still say they operate in the same axis, just the space part the branched off and created another timeline. So it is the second timeline that is discreet and will not amount much for tiering. but a movie like tenet where time travel actually creates another dimension of time, is a different timeline. watch the movie it is great.

 

[Omegabronic]

The question he asked is if universes that are affected by time manipulation in one, considered a single timeline and that is yes, they are now a single timeline.
And also temporal axis, is kind of a weird term, since time flows in one direction, well so one axis, a different axis will require time flowing in a different direction. So I will still say they operate in the same axis, just the space part the branched off and created another timeline. So it is the second timeline that is discreet and will not amount much for tiering. but a movie like tenet where time travel actually creates another dimension of time, is a different timeline. watch the movie it is great.

so if i am understanding correctly, the standard assumption for a timeline with multiple universes that have said universes affected by time paradoxes in just one of them, is that they are 3-A structures inside a low 2-C one? sorry if i am being annoying

 

[PrinceofPein]

so if i am understanding correctly, the standard assumption for a timeline with multiple universes that have said universes affected by time paradoxes in just one of them, is that they are 3-A structures inside a low 2-C one? sorry if i am being annoying

Yes, if that makes you understand it, that is pretty much it

 

[Omegabronic]

Yes, if that makes you understand it, that is pretty much it

thank you

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, the whole "Multiple universes are created by a single time paradox," doesn't really mean anything by default since it could just mean branching timelines. I wouldn't use that as a proven negative without addressing side positives that may or may not have proof. It is possible for branching timelines to actually be up to 1-A sized for certain verses yes.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Actually, the whole "Multiple universes are created by a single time paradox, doesn't really mean anything by default since it could just mean branching timelines. I wouldn't use that as a proven negative without addressing side positives that may or may not have proof. It is possible for branching timelines to actually be up to 1-A sized for certain verses yes.

Such branching timelines affected through time paradoxes for tiering purpose will be low 2-C all together.
Also branching timelines that can reach 1-A, are no longer branching timelines but rather superimposing one another.
Also can you give examples of positives that can make timelines that are affected by time paradoxes a separate space-time?

 

[Reiner04]

Also can you give examples of positives that can make timelines that are affected by time paradoxes a separate space-time?

Ben 10, MCU, etc

 

[PrinceofPein]

Ben 10, MCU, etc

I mean positives, like arguments or feats, not verses.

 

[Reiner04]

Well tbh, at this point, just asking DT would solve the problem, doesn't seems it'll go anywhere. I remember him explaining this stuff long ago.
Post in thread 'Universe level CRT Part 2 (Alternate Dimension Edition)' https://vsbattles.com/threads/unive...ternate-dimension-edition.121139/post-3981498

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well tbh, at this point, just asking DT would solve the problem, doesn't seems it'll go anywhere. I remember him explaining this stuff long ago.
Post in thread 'Universe level CRT Part 2 (Alternate Dimension Edition)' https://vsbattles.com/threads/unive...ternate-dimension-edition.121139/post-3981498

based on this, branching timelines are not separate spacetimes at all. like absolutely not.
Anyway since you are knowledgeable on Ben 10, can you tell me the feat that you think makes Ben 10 an exception?

 

[Reiner04]

based on this, branching timelines are not separate spacetimes at all. like absolutely not.
Anyway since you are knowledgeable on Ben 10, can you tell me the feat that you think makes Ben 10 an exception?

Oh wait... Branching timelines... This is not about branching timelines but rather single timeline containing many spacetime Dimensions. Dragonball, this entire conversation, the entire questions, all the answers

 

[PrinceofPein]

Oh wait... Branching timelines... This is not about branching timelines but rather single timeline containing many spacetime Dimensions. Dragonball, this entire conversation, the entire questions, all the answers

oh this is about DB again? sigh, there is no thread where DB does not come up, it comes up even in tier 11 and tier 0 threads
But a single timeline containing many space-time dimensions, well in that case those universes are not separate, since tier 2 really has to do with destruction of timelines and not unverses.
but let me hear a postive argument about it

 

[Reiner04]

Better not to hijack this thread with dragonball arguements.

Although, for timeline containing many universes, this explaination should be valid.

Well tbh, at this point, just asking DT would solve the problem, doesn't seems it'll go anywhere. I remember him explaining this stuff long ago.
Post in thread 'Universe level CRT Part 2 (Alternate Dimension Edition)' https://vsbattles.com/threads/unive...ternate-dimension-edition.121139/post-3981498

 

[KLOL506]

Ben 10, MCU, etc

MCU don't count brother, they're straight up alternate timelines now thanks to Loki.

 

[Reiner04]

MCU don't count brother, they're straight up alternate timelines now thanks to Loki.

Yes but there was misunderstanding ig, I was talking about single timeline containing many spacetime's while pain was talking about branching timelines.

 

[KLOL506]

Yes but there was misunderstanding ig, I was talking about single timeline containing many spacetime's while pain was talking about branching timelines.

Ah. I see.

 

[Omegabronic]

Just to clarify that i wasn't asking for db especifically, but in general since i know some verses with more than one universe inside another space time, i didn't had any specific verse in mind

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Such branching timelines affected through time paradoxes for tiering purpose will be low 2-C all together.
Also branching timelines that can reach 1-A, are no longer branching timelines but rather superimposing one another.
Also can you give examples of positives that can make timelines that are affected by time paradoxes a separate space-time?

Such as some of those "Individual universes contained in the timelines" also have their own share of sub-dimensions containing their own flows of time is one example of a side positive that could mean "Timelines are 2-C and above not limited to Low 2-C". Also, "Branching timeline" is a metaphor for timelines containing timelines or Brane Universes. Which can range from 2-C and even up to 1-A despite being named something that would be Low 2-C on paper.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Such as some of those "Individual universes contained in the timelines" also have their own share of sub-dimensions containing their own flows of time is one example of a side positive that could mean "Timelines are 2-C and above not limited to Low 2-C". Also, "Branching timeline" is a metaphor for timelines containing timelines or Brane Universes. Which can range from 2-C and even up to 1-A despite being named something that would be Low 2-C on paper.

Timelines start from low 2-C not 2-C, it is not limited to low 2-C, but one is low 2-C, more is 2-C and above.
Branching timelines are for timelines that diverge from the original timelines based on actiions of people inside the universe or some other mechanics, and it is not a metaphor, it is pratically applicable, timelines that diverge into multiple, not containing or brane like you said.
Also individual universes that contain pocket dimensions that have faster or slower rate of time is not proof it is another timeline, if they have different axis, then yes they are.