Tiamat-Lilith's conceptual existence

[The_real_cal_howard]

Her abstraction comes from these two scans. However, I have a few problems with this, as this seems to be a case of flowery language, aside from the fact that it's such a random concept to embody. The girl doesn't have any backing to that conceptual nature. No support. For quite a few reasons. One, before she fused, she had equals in God. Tiamat was equal to God while Lilith feared him. She can't be the concept of an omnipotent with people on her level. Goes against it. Two, the quotes in question are talking about the impossibility of challenging her, as she's so above the speaker. Girl was God with a capital G. Three, even if she were conceptual by nature, being the concept of God in itself shouldn't be anything special, given she is God at that point. It's not like Lucemon or Khorne where it's a force they embody. She's literally embodying herself. Four, even if she were an abstract, she'd be type 3.

 

[Andytrenom]

I don't know the verse but the scans do seem like they aren't enough for abstract existence.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The conceptual stuff is only mentioned after she already stomped God, in otherwords after becoming Tiamat-Lilith. There is no one on her level, that's false, she is the strongest being in tokyo babel.

It literally says she is the very concept, not seeing how it's hyperbole or flowery lanaguage.

Also legit says that defying her means defying the very multiverse, and this is right after the first statement of her being the very concept of an omnipotent being, so obviously it means something, and isn't just some random statement that means nothing.

Setsuna's reason d'etre is to literally destroy the concept of defeat, though in the tiamat route is to condemn injustice or something, he tried to use it against Tiamat but said it was pointless as he can't condemn injustice that large cause his opponent is the very concept of an omnipotent being and defying her means defying the very multiverse itself.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I agree with Celestial.

 

[Sera_EX]

>Cal

>Asking questions about a visual novel verse.

Dogs and cats living together.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Maybe it's cause i included the pics when she was just Tiamat that's giving the wrong idea, just calling her Tiamat-Lilth isn't exactly accurate since there are several versions of her, she should probably be Tiamat (Tokyo Babel), but separating them by keys would be a pain since besides Tiamat Lilith, we don't know what abilities she has as just Tiamat or Tiamat with Original Lilith.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

If defying Tiamat-Lilith meant defying the multiverse itself, wouldn't this imply omnipresence?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I initially just took it as her having control over the multiverse. But yea relooking at it, Tiamat seems pretty synonymous with the world, entire sequence of Tiamat being called a concept:

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Snip

You missed the point. The fact that there was previously someone above/equal to her before she fused goes against the idea of her being that concept.

Just because it says it doesn't disqualify it from being flowery language. How many verses say speed of light without it being so, for example. You have to look at the whole context. And the context of the scene seems to point on her just (using just lightly here) being...God.

 

[Andytrenom]

If there's more context it may justify abstract existence.

But from the given scans it just feels another way of saying "She was the very definition of an omnipotent god"

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Cal

???

Tiamat-Lilith is literally 2 powerups above God, not seeing your point here. Tiamat-Lilith>Tiamat fused with original lilith>Tiamat=God

Also read the scans i posted above, i think it pretty much implies Tiamat is a multiversal concept, as she is referred to as the world.

Obviously she isn't "omnipotent", there is no such thing, but she is obviously a concept imo.

 

[Kaltias]

I agree with Andy

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What about the implications of her being the world itself? Is there a case for omnipresence?

If ppl think the abstract stuff should be removed, it's cool with me, have no issues downgrading any character i have made.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Pegasus I don't think so. "Defying her meant Defying the world itself" is likely talking about her authority more than her state of being.

It's like if someone goes against the monarch of his country, and the monarch says "By Defying me you're defying your own country" he isn't implying that he's physically the country that he rules over.

 

[The_Causality]

Sorry CP but Andy has a good point here, without more context/proof, i'am inclined to being agree with the downgrade.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Meh, well the downgrade is fine with me.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Also have to agree that Andy has a point.

 

[DMB_1]

I agree with Andy.

 

[Andytrenom]

Why's everyone agreeing with me. This doesn't feel normal

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Renamed the page and removed the abstract stuff.