I forgot: NEP additions and Concept Manip for the Overlord! (Ninjago)

[Overlord_Darkness]

Hello there again! With all of this Ninjago CRTs I completely forgot about few things:

First one!

• Ninjago Verse have Mind Elemental Power (thus, Overlord's NEP should include not only Aspect Type 1, but also Type 2)
• And that the Overlord is conceptual in nature: he is an abstraction\concept of evil and darkness and he have Abstract Existence Type 1 for this (Thus, his NEP should also include Aspect Type 3..)

With all of this edits it should be like that: Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 1, 2, 3) [For now in profile there is only Aspect Type 1]

Second!
The Overlord (and his power) several times affected Balance in Ninjago Verse. Balance is multiversal concept that affects and shapes all of the Realms and exists independently from reality actually (there is no element or power or something like this to be manifestation or vessel of the concept of Balance in the reality itself). So, Overlord should also have Concept Manip.
This is how Garmadon describes it:

“We underestimate the importance of balance. When it's there, we're at peace. When something is off, everything falls. Ninjago is no different. It put too much faith in technology, allowing the Overlord to return, and because of your friends, now the world is without power. When one relies on something too much, we become weak, vulnerable, imbalanced. In order to find your full potential and unlock your true power, you must find your own balance.”

This thing should look like this:

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1: The Overlord and his Darkness power is able to affect, shift and even destroy the Balance. Balance is the multiversal conception that affects everything in Ninjago including even Realms)

A few scans about Overlord affecting Balance:

Explanation: Clouse uses Dark Matter (Overlord's related matter made of pure concentrated evil) to affect source of Light and thus destroy the Balance.

Watch next video from 13:00



How Balance affects things in terms of Realms:


Agree: @TheOrangeGuy09, @Lloydblitzed, @Minaaaa, @Scumbag_Steve, @LifeRiderthe1
Disagree: @Mr._Bambu, @AllForOne [NEP], @DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral:

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Seems fine to me, agreed

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Hello there again! With all of this Ninjago CRTs I completely forgot about few things:

First one!

• Ninjago Verse have Mind Elemental Power (thus, Overlord's NEP should include not only Aspect Type 1, but also Type 2)
• And that the Overlord is conceptual in nature: he is an abstraction\concept of evil and darkness and he have Abstract Existence Type 1 for this (Thus, his NEP should also include Aspect Type 3..)

With all of this edits it should be like that: Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 1, 2, 3) [For now in profile there is only Aspect Type 1]
Second!
The Overlord (and his power) several times affected Balance in Ninjago Verse. Balance is multiversal concept that affects and shapes all of the Realms and do not exists in reality actually (there is no element or power or something like this to represent the concept of Balance in the reality itself). So, Overlord should also have Concept Manip.
This is how Garmadon describes it:


This thing should look like this:

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1: The Overlord and his Darkness power is able to affect, shift and even destroy the Balance. Balance is the multiversal conception that affects everything in Ninjago including even Realms)

A few scans about Overlord affecting Balance:

Watch next video from 13:00



Agree: @TheOrangeGuy09
Disagree:
Neutral:

W upgrade, I agree tbh

 

[Minaaaa]

Looks good, agree

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

Agree

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

agree on my part.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

BUMP

 

[Mr. Bambu]

First bit doesn't have any scans to justify it so I'm forced to disagree.

Balance is multiversal concept that affects and shapes all of the Realms and exists independently from reality actually (there is no element or power or something like this to be manifestation or vessel of the concept of Balance in the reality itself)

Scans for this bit from the second part would be welcome, particularly since the quote talks about balance less like an actual force in the cosmos and moreso just a literal balance of power- which wouldn't require it to be "conceptual" in nature or whatever.

So I suppose I'd disagree with the second half, too.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

First bit doesn't have any scans to justify it so I'm forced to disagree.

Neuro

Neuro is the current Elemental Master of Mind and was a competitor in Master Chen's Tournament of Elements. Though wise and insightful, Neuro could be distrustful and selfish, especially towards the other fighters. When Chen's true plans unfolded, Neuro joined the Elemental Masters to reclaim...

ninjago.fandom.com

this is from Ninjago wiki about Neuro from Season 4 - the master of the Mind element (I have no available source for full Season 4 episodes, so yea)

about Abstract Existence Type 1:

and WoG:

So! Considering that Overlord existed forever (which means that he existed before Creation itself in terms of Ninjago cosmology) and it was accepted here, all of this should make Overlord have NEP aspect types 2 and 3.

Scans for this bit from the second part would be welcome, particularly since the quote talks about balance less like an actual force in the cosmos and moreso just a literal balance of power- which wouldn't require it to be "conceptual" in nature or whatever.

As we can see, Destruction and Creation are conceptual powers: these energies represents what they are meant to represent and even they, being basically concepts of Destruction and Creation, are affected by the Balance:

Thus, the Balance is a truly a Type 1 conception for the entire Multiverse

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So! Considering that Overlord existed forever (which means that he existed before Creation itself in terms of Ninjago cosmology) and it was accepted here, all of this should make Overlord have NEP aspect types 2 and 3.

Could you elaborate on why that would be so? "Existing forever" doesn't mean "made of nothing". He seems to very specifically be a physical being with a spiritual counterpart when defeated- both of these directly contradict the notion of NEP. WoG and all that don't sufficiently support Abstract Existence, either- being the source of evil does not necessarily indicate he is literally evil embodied, and the "pretty much" from a Twitter thread of all places isn't solid evidence, either.

As we can see, Destruction and Creation are conceptual powers: these energies represents what they are meant to represent and even they, being basically concepts of Destruction and Creation, are affected by the Balance:

How so? Creation in your scans is defined as an energy that allows for things like fire, lightning, and "earth" (physical matter?). The book defining it as definitely energy would seem to also run against your interpretation that it is this abstract governing force. The powers of creation do not appear to be conceptual in nature: they are Energy Manipulation.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Could you elaborate on why that would be so? "Existing forever" doesn't mean "made of nothing". He seems to very specifically be a physical being with a spiritual counterpart when defeated- both of these directly contradict the notion of NEP

In fact, Overlord actually not a physical being. As shown in Season 2 and 3 and then in Season 15, Overlord uses external factors (such as Balance fluctuations or help from the real beings) to create a shell or to possess someone or something. Thus, he have no true physical form. Even Wu claimed that the Overlord needs hatred, anger and conflict to grow in power to create a vessel and take form in the reality.

WoG and all that don't sufficiently support Abstract Existence, either- being the source of evil does not necessarily indicate he is literally evil embodied

Why he made of nothingness? Well, let's begin.
Here's Overlord's statement to Garmadon:

My master plan has been in the works since the beginning of time. Every piece moves in perfect harmony, like the gears of the clock, slowly shifting the balance of power back to darkness. Every piece, that is, but you!

Then, we have this three statements that were used and created after Season 10 (when First Realms was fully explained):

As we can see, Overlord existed forever and from the very beginning to the point he was called as original spirit.
Now, let's return to the Overlord's statement and origin of the First Realm. As you can understand, First Realm is the first space-time in existence - there was no realm or something before it:

And, as we can see from the Overlord's statement, time had a beginning - thus, First Realm actually became into existence and Overlord, in fact, existed before the first space-time continuum and, as result, before everything in cosmology (all of the multiverse begins from the First Realm). Thus, the Overlord is nonexistent in nature via existing before existence which makes him made of nothingness in his Spirit Key.

How so? Creation in your scans is defined as an energy that allows for things like fire, lightning, and "earth" (physical matter?). The book defining it as definitely energy would seem to also run against your interpretation that it is this abstract governing force. The powers of creation do not appear to be conceptual in nature: they are Energy Manipulation.

Word "energy" can mean a lot of things in Ninjago verse. You need to see the context: Creation in this description defined as energy that literally created an everyday life and everything in it (a battery, a steam engine, etc.).
Elemental Powers are very tricky thing. They are basically just energies of elements (this also includes Earth):



So, considering context, I think it's safe to say that Creation and Destruction (which are defined not as Elemental Powers, but as Elemental Essences) are conceptual in nature and word "Energy" was used to better understanding.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

In fact, Overlord actually not a physical being. As shown in Season 2 and 3 and then in Season 15, Overlord uses external factors (such as Balance fluctuations or help from the real beings) to create a shell or to possess someone or something. Thus, he have no true physical form. Even Wu claimed that the Overlord needs hatred, anger and conflict to grow in power to create a vessel and take form in the reality.

Would it abate this if I instead phrased it as "he takes a physical form", then, given that the scans above talk about that extensively? They also mention a "spiritual form", which I will interpret as his "true self" or whatever terminology you'd like to ascribe to it.

And, as we can see from the Overlord's statement, time had a beginning - thus, First Realm actually became into existence and Overlord, in fact, existed before the first space-time continuum and, as result, before everything in cosmology (all of the multiverse begins from the First Realm). Thus, the Overlord is nonexistent in nature via existing before existence which makes him made of nothingness in his Spirit Key.

Yeah this is where your interpretation runs against what I'm reading. The Overlord was not before everything else- he was present at the beginning, before the world perhaps but not before all. Light and dark existed there. He even specifically states that he has worked since the beginning of time, not before. Your interpretation hinges on a very particular view of what the creation of the world entails- which I don't think is supported by the specifics of what is written.

So, considering context, I think it's safe to say that Creation and Destruction (which are defined not as Elemental Powers, but as Elemental Essences) are conceptual in nature and word "Energy" are used to better understanding.

I don't agree that it is safe to say that, though. They are explicitly energies and seem to operate as such. They aren't required to be conceptual in nature to achieve that which they do.

I'm rejecting this CRT.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Yeah this is where your interpretation runs against what I'm reading. The Overlord was not before everything else- he was present at the beginning, before the world perhaps but not before all. Light and dark existed there. He even specifically states that he has worked since the beginning of time, not before. Your interpretation hinges on a very particular view of what the creation of the world entails- which I don't think is supported by the specifics of what is written.

"existed forever". The "very beginning" can mean a lot of things, but considering that we have other scans and the First Realm, the Overlord existed before them and "from the very beginning" means here that he existed before such things. And Overlord said that his plan was in the works since the beginning of time, not the Overlord itself. And, well, before the world (which means the whole cosmology of Ninjago) actually means that Overlord is far more complicated being than FSM or Oni or Dragons.

Light and dark existed there.

Funny thing. "Where there is light, there is also a shadow. But within a shadow, there is darkness. The blackest of darkness that existed from the very beginning". In this sense, darkness is not a shadow - it's more malevolent and more abstract force than regular Destruction, for example.

Would it abate this if I instead phrased it as "he takes a physical form", then, given that the scans above talk about that extensively? They also mention a "spiritual form", which I will interpret as his "true self" or whatever terminology you'd like to ascribe to it.

In fact, yes. It will.

 

[AllForOne]

With all of this edits it should be like that: Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 1, 2, 3) [For now in profile there is only Aspect Type 1]

I disagree with nonexistent physiology. He's a spirit that is the embodiment of evil / darkness. Don't really see how that correlates with each other.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

I disagree with nonexistent physiology. He's a spirit that is the embodiment of evil / darkness. Don't really see how that correlates with each other.

Because of preceding existence.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Unfortunately, I agree with Bambu here.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Unfortunately, I agree with Bambu here.

Okay! Thanks for your input! <3

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

2\3 staff members are disagree with CRT so, I think, it can be closed. Thanks everyone for input and activity <3