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Throwing Speed

Maybe try Linear Momentum?

M1V1 = M2V2

Technically speaking, the heavier object throwing it might be faster but this can enter the realm of outliers or might even go beyond FTL momentum which is forbidden.

The only other character I can think of that would rely on this would be Boros but that shit wields FTL momentum which is a no-no.
 
KLOL506 said:
Maybe try Linear Momentum?

M1V1 = M2V2

Technically speaking, the heavier object throwing it might be faster but this can enter the realm of outliers or might even go beyond FTL momentum which is forbidden.

The only other character I can think of that would rely on this would be Boros but that shit wields FTL momentum which is a no-no.
Click to expand...
Not sure how to use linear momentum
 
MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer said:
Not sure how to use linear momentum
Click to expand...
Mass1Velocity1 = Mass2Velocity2

Thing is, Momentum of both objects need to be equal, full stop. Conservation of momentum in a nutshell.

Basically the body speed would be lower than the thrown object's speed, and we can derive that using conservation of momentum.

Mass 1 and Velocity 1 would be the mass and velocity of the person (Or their body part) throwing the object. Mass 2 and Velocity 2 would be the mass and speed of the object being yeeted.
 
KLOL506 said:
Mass1Velocity1 = Mass2Velocity2

Thing is, Momentum of both objects need to be equal, full stop. Conservation of momentum in a nutshell.

Basically the body speed would be lower than the thrown object's speed, and we can derive that using conservation of momentum.

Mass 1 and Velocity 1 would be the mass and velocity of the person (Or their body part) throwing the object. Mass 2 and Velocity 2 would be the mass and speed of the object being yeeted.
Click to expand...
Huh, ok

But if FTL momentum is forbidden, wouldn't the two feats I mentioned in the OP be inapplicable because they are FTL?
 
I wouldn't scale throwing speed to any other speed. Fundamentally it's a feat of accelerating another object, which is more so a strength thing, and we don't scale strength to speed even if there is a physical relationship.
(and since even real life humans can throw/shoot things faster than they can run, most authors probably don't consider a relationship anyway)
 
DontTalkDT said:
I wouldn't scale throwing speed to any other speed. Fundamentally it's a feat of accelerating another object, which is more so a strength thing, and we don't scale strength to speed even if there is a physical relationship.
(and since even real life humans can throw/shoot things faster than they can run, most authors probably don't consider a relationship anyway)
Click to expand...
We should probably note this down somewhere.
 
So, this page has a pretty extensive list of ballistic formula stuff. I will probably also link it for the ease of having calculators.
Which formula from those do you guys think is most important, so that it's worth to copy it from the page?
I would say the formula that, given angle of launch & range of throw, calculates launch velocity is the most essential one. (especially because one can just take 45° launch angle as low end)
So I would copy that one on the page. Any other you commonly use?
 
DontTalkDT said:
So, this page has a pretty extensive list of ballistic formula stuff. I will probably also link it for the ease of having calculators.
Which formula from those do you guys think is most important, so that it's worth to copy it from the page?
I would say the formula that, given angle of launch & range of throw, calculates launch velocity is the most essential one. (especially because one can just take 45° launch angle as low end)
So I would copy that one on the page. Any other you commonly use?
Click to expand...
What about throwing objects at immeasurable speed? Infinite speed? I do think it has a relationship with your combat speed or generally with speed
 
Dread said:
What about throwing objects at immeasurable speed? Infinite speed? I do think it has a relationship with your combat speed or generally with speed
Click to expand...
For high speed tiers at this is I would actually be extra sceptical that it has tbh.
Like, extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence and if you threw something through time but never demonstrated movement like that yourself, you're making a pretty tall ask for quite questionable circumstances.
 
DontTalkDT said:
For high speed tiers at this is I would actually be extra sceptical that it has tbh.
Like, extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence and if you threw something through time but never demonstrated movement like that yourself, you're making a pretty tall ask for quite questionable circumstances.
Click to expand...
Ah, regardless of evidence and claims, how would you treat such situations then?
 
Ok, so for the calc page text how about:

Throwing Feats​

For feats of throwing or launching a projectile, the formulas and calculators found on this page can be used, provided the projectile is not launched more than dozens of kilometers high or so far that the curvature of the planet becomes relevant.
A particularly useful formula is v = sqrt( R * g / ( sin(2 * a) ) ), where v is the initial launching / throwing speed, R is the distance the object is thrown, g is the gravitational acceleration (9.81 m/s^2) and a is angle between the ground and the direction the projectile gets launched in. Ensure that the angle is given in the same unit used for the sinus (i.e. either both degrees or both radians).
A useful approximation is to use a = 45° as that will result in a low-end estimate for the projectile's speed and hence doesn't require actual measurement of the angle.

Note that throwing speed is typically not applied to combat speed, but only treated as attack speed, as it is usually considered a feat of strength more so than a measure of how fast the character can run or fight.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Ok, so for the calc page text how about:

Throwing Feats​

For feats of throwing or launching a projectile, the formulas and calculators found on this page can be used, provided the projectile is not launched more than dozens of kilometers high or so far that the curvature of the planet becomes relevant.
A particularly useful formula is v = sqrt( R * g / ( sin(2 * a) ) ), where v is the initial launching / throwing speed, R is the distance the object is thrown, g is the gravitational acceleration (9.81 m/s^2) and a is angle between the ground and the direction the projectile gets launched in. Ensure that the angle is given in the same unit used for the sinus (i.e. either both degrees or both radians).
A useful approximation is to use a = 45° as that will result in a low-end estimate for the projectile's speed and hence doesn't require actual measurement of the angle.

Note that throwing speed is typically not applied to combat speed, but only treated as attack speed, as it is usually considered a feat of strength more so than a measure of how fast the character can run or fight.
Click to expand...
Are those the ballistic formulae you previously mentioned?
 
DontTalkDT said:
A useful approximation is to use a = 45° as that will result in a low-end estimate for the projectile's speed and hence doesn't require actual measurement of the angle.
Click to expand...

What if it is possible to get the angle? Should we still use the 45?
 
DontTalkDT said:
Ok, so for the calc page text how about:

Throwing Feats​

For feats of throwing or launching a projectile, the formulas and calculators found on this page can be used, provided the projectile is not launched more than dozens of kilometers high or so far that the curvature of the planet becomes relevant.
A particularly useful formula is v = sqrt( R * g / ( sin(2 * a) ) ), where v is the initial launching / throwing speed, R is the distance the object is thrown, g is the gravitational acceleration (9.81 m/s^2) and a is angle between the ground and the direction the projectile gets launched in. Ensure that the angle is given in the same unit used for the sinus (i.e. either both degrees or both radians).
A useful approximation is to use a = 45° as that will result in a low-end estimate for the projectile's speed and hence doesn't require actual measurement of the angle.

Note that throwing speed is typically not applied to combat speed, but only treated as attack speed, as it is usually considered a feat of strength more so than a measure of how fast the character can run or fight.
Click to expand...
So has this been added yet?
 
No. Probably needs some more input first. Let me call 5 randomly selected calc group members for this.

DontTalkDT said:
Ok, so for the calc page text how about:

Throwing Feats​

For feats of throwing or launching a projectile, the formulas and calculators found on this page can be used, provided the projectile is not launched more than dozens of kilometers high or so far that the curvature of the planet becomes relevant.
A particularly useful formula is v = sqrt( R * g / ( sin(2 * a) ) ), where v is the initial launching / throwing speed, R is the distance the object is thrown, g is the gravitational acceleration (9.81 m/s^2) and a is angle between the ground and the direction the projectile gets launched in. Ensure that the angle is given in the same unit used for the sinus (i.e. either both degrees or both radians).
A useful approximation is to use a = 45° as that will result in a low-end estimate for the projectile's speed and hence doesn't require actual measurement of the angle.

Note that throwing speed is typically not applied to combat speed, but only treated as attack speed, as it is usually considered a feat of strength more so than a measure of how fast the character can run or fight.
Click to expand...
@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Migue79 @Jasonsith @DemonGodMitchAubin @Armorchompy

This addition to the calculations page ok with you?
 
Interesting, can this be utilized to get KE for something that's tossed a long distance?
 
i meant, getting initial speed through this specific formula

i figure yes but like idk
 
Armorchompy said:
Interesting, can this be utilized to get KE for something that's tossed a long distance?
Click to expand...
B0PBSI2.png
 
KLOL506 said:
Didn't DT already say that Throwing Feats always qualified for KE?
Click to expand...
IIRC

  • The initial KE, mass and speed of the projectile leaving the attacker qualify for yields of attack potency, lifting strength and speed of the attacker
  • Armorchompy model (modified from the Newton's second law of motion) also suggests that the acceleration of the projectile should also be considered such that the force applied to the projectile is the possibly high end lifting strength (with mass of the object under applicable gravity the likely low end)
  • No speed values higher than SOL (or technically 93% c) be used for KE for attack potency determination purpose
 
Last edited:
Eficiente said:
It can be only attack speed if reasonably assumed to be higher than their combat speed.
Click to expand...
This also.



While what the OP says seem straightforward to most of us, I do have a follow up question:

While our current site rules say "no speed values higher than SOL (or technically 93% c) be used for KE for attack potency determination purpose", can we substitute a cap of speed of light for such purpose?

Say if a character can throw an object at a relativistic speed and such KE can be used for attack potency,
would another character that throws the same object at a FTL speed have a KE yield be used for attack potency
But instead of using the FTL speed value, we cap them at relativistic KE at ~93% c?

Hope you understand what I ask.
Because it is counterintuitive a character throwing an object at FTL speed (ceteris paribus) is "shown to be weaker" than another character throwing an object at a lower speed.
 
Jasonsith said:
This also.



While what the OP says seem straightforward to most of us, I do have a follow up question:

While our current site rules say "no speed values higher than SOL (or technically 93% c) be used for KE for attack potency determination purpose", can we substitute a cap of speed of light for such purpose?
Click to expand...
Anything within the 93% SoL to right below SoL without any mention of relativity being used 4x the Newtonian KE, doesn't it?

Jasonsith said:
Say if a character can throw an object at a relativistic speed and such KE can be used for attack potency,
would another character that throws the same object at a FTL speed have a KE yield be used for attack potency
But instead of using the FTL speed value, we cap them at relativistic KE at ~93% c?
Click to expand...
At that time I had no idea that at speeds beyond 93% c right up until SoL itself we'd just use the normal KE formula and then multiply with 4x. The multiplier is an arbitrary value, sure, but the basis of the multiplier is to prevent excessive deviation into absurdly high kinetic energy values due to relativity, unless otherwise stated that relativity is taking effect.

Jasonsith said:
Hope you understand what I ask.
Because it is counterintuitive a character throwing an object at FTL speed (ceteris paribus) is "shown to be weaker" than another character throwing an object at a lower speed.
Click to expand...
Something something anything FTL violates the laws of physics by default or something but then again, so does most of fiction.
 
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