- 6,488
- 1,703
The banshees screaming in my head made me do it......
Anyways reviving this and improving upon an older attempt that was tried earlier this year.
Without any further interruptions!
INTRODUCING
High 1-B+ Universe and the Primary argument Is.......
Proof that each Time Axis is actually Quantitative superiority, and Orthogonal.
Conclusion
The Future is a different/separate additional Time axis and there are is an uncountably infinite number of futures all are stated to be their own independent time axis that is “different from one another.''
Thus, the Universe in Saint Seiya should be High 1-B+ because of an uncountably infinite number of temporal dimensions.
Who scales to this?
The Big Bang and anyone who scales to it.
Debunking some common arguments against this
This is a terrible misunderstanding of the FAQ page. Yes, a perpendicular one can suggest an alternate timeline, however the time line being perpendicular is the result of Higher Time Axes which by default is taking a new direction. A causes B here, The new direction of time (The higher Time Axis) taking a perpendicular direction which has perpendicular timelines along its axis points implies the existence of a Higher Temporal dimension/axis. This is a consequence of having a Higher Time Axis/dimensions.
The FAQ page explicitly says that a direct statement is all that you need. There is no requirement for proving that it has the qualities, properties, and nature of true higher temporal dimension. If this is an issue then there needs to be a Staff only thread created to get this reworded, and then it should be mentioned somewhere that proving, even in the face of a direct statement of multiple temporal dimensions/Axes, that they have the qualities, properties, and nature a higher temporal dimension would have.
This means nothing in proving if it is Orthogonal, or if it is not. You can have a 2-C Universe holding other Low 2-C universes with this same logic due to subsets. Instead, you need a direct statement that they have their own time axis/temporal dimension, or prove the universes have the qualities, properties, or nature to have their own time axis.
Regardless, this means nothing to this CRT as its about a direct statement. It has nothing to do with “Universes inside of Universes”
I went back, and did some reading on the Staff Thread titled “Re:Evulation of Temporal Dimension standards” and the word “Different Time Axes” was used synonymously with “Separate Time Axes.” The OP of the thread also used the wording “Different Time Axis” instead of “Separate.”
Plack69 used the term “Different”
The OP of the thread also equated “Different” and “Separate” as the same thing here.
Qawsedf234 also used the term “Different” instead of “Separate”
In total the word “Different Temporal” was used a total of 23 times on the staff crt. There was absolutely 0 clarification or discussion on the difference, and nuances on something being “Different” and “Separate” and 0 clarification and elaboration on why Time Axis and Temporal Dimensions are different concepts.
If there are any differences, then the FAQ should be carefully reworded and changed to show that distinction.
In Chapter 19 of Saint Seiya Next Dimension, the depiction of the past and future as "Nebulas/Galaxies" hints at a clear separation between them. For reference, these Nebulas are stated to be different “past” and “Futures” as to quote Chronos, he tells Athena “If you so much as put a foot in another nebula you will find yourself in a different past or future.” This is heavily implying the nebulas are Separated Time Axes. Although initially suggested visually and showing gappage as a metaphorical artistic sense of separation. This portrayal gains significance when much later in the series about 60+ Chapters later, it is explicitly stated that the past and future are indeed "Different time axes.” Additionally, the statement that the futures are "Fragmented" further reinforces this sense of separation.
EDITED: New evidence different temporal directions
Arguments Aganist the OP
Arguments for the OP
Anyways reviving this and improving upon an older attempt that was tried earlier this year.
Without any further interruptions!
INTRODUCING
High 1-B+ Universe and the Primary argument Is.......
The FAQ page says
“A spacetime continuum with two time axes, instead of just one, could likewise be visualized as a line comprised of uncountably infinite points, each of which is a static "snapshot" of the entire regular timeline with 3 space and 1 time dimension. It would hence be one level of qualitative superiority above a timeline and as such baseline Low 1-C. Similarily, adding even more time dimensions would add one level of qualitative superiority each time.
Outside of explanations which state that multiple time dimensions exist”
This passage in the FAQ equates temporal Dimensions as the same thing as a Time Axis/Axes. If there is any problem or issue with it, then the FAQ should be reworded to make this more abundantly clear.
Anyways, The Saint Seiya verse has a direct, explicit, and clearcut statement of multiple time axes, and quite possibly up to an uncountably infinite number of additional time axes, and that's what this CRT is going to explain.
The Primary Evidence
The past and future are explicitly stated to have their own independent, and stated to be different time axes. This isn't stated Just once but twice. This in of itself isn’t enough for High 1-B+. However, we have heavy implications of there being uncountably infinite future's in verse. This will be explain in the below spoilers boxes along with explanations that they do follow wiki policy in being legitimate and real temporal dimensions.
“A spacetime continuum with two time axes, instead of just one, could likewise be visualized as a line comprised of uncountably infinite points, each of which is a static "snapshot" of the entire regular timeline with 3 space and 1 time dimension. It would hence be one level of qualitative superiority above a timeline and as such baseline Low 1-C. Similarily, adding even more time dimensions would add one level of qualitative superiority each time.
Outside of explanations which state that multiple time dimensions exist”
This passage in the FAQ equates temporal Dimensions as the same thing as a Time Axis/Axes. If there is any problem or issue with it, then the FAQ should be reworded to make this more abundantly clear.
Anyways, The Saint Seiya verse has a direct, explicit, and clearcut statement of multiple time axes, and quite possibly up to an uncountably infinite number of additional time axes, and that's what this CRT is going to explain.
The Primary Evidence
The past and future are explicitly stated to have their own independent, and stated to be different time axes. This isn't stated Just once but twice. This in of itself isn’t enough for High 1-B+. However, we have heavy implications of there being uncountably infinite future's in verse. This will be explain in the below spoilers boxes along with explanations that they do follow wiki policy in being legitimate and real temporal dimensions.
Proof that each Time Axis is actually Quantitative superiority, and Orthogonal.
Athena asked Chronos to send her to the past to change the future, but that isn't how time travel works in the series. What ended up happening is she was sent to a different temporal axis that ended up being a branch of the past. She was also told that time travel cannot change destiny, aka the future, meaning Seiya is doomed to die regardless of her actions to save him. Although, she was told not to change history within the same chapter; that statement makes no logical sense. Time traveling should logically save Seiya’s life, but Chronos admitted that it will not change his future/destiny.
What ended up happening is she cured it using her own power through the connection within the flower bracelets.
Additionally, to clear up all, or any, confusion. The loss of memory is because of Apollo altering peoples memories not due to the timeline being fixed (because it never got fixed.) The whole statement of "everything will go back to its original state" is because Athena distorted the natural order of the universe.
In other words, Chronos telling her not to change history must mean some other context unrelated to time travel, otherwise her goal would be simple which in the context of the story; it has not been that simple. Thus, the whole idea of time traveling to time paradox hades sword out of existence has been entirely ditched by Kurumada.
Additionally, in Saint Seiya: Episode G Assassins, it was made evident that the "past" is definite, and cannot be undone. For example, Shura went to the past to kill Aiolios, of the Lost World. However, this had no impact on the GA/GR timeline. If it did, the sequel story of the GA timeline wouldn't happen (GR.) Shura for GR would also be time paradoxed out of existence, but that didn’t happen. The reason is because Aiolos of the Lost World played a significant role as he invaded other timelines in an attempt to merge his timeline with others. These events are an important and integral key component that leads into the events of Saint Seiya: Requiem. In addition, the changes would also affect Shura himself who became heavily influenced and reliant on his experiences that occurred during the Episode G Assassins events, but there were no changes to him or anyone else. To further support this Saga, who was turned into an owl because of the events that happened in Episode G Assassins, also remained unaffected.
Another example is Avenir from Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas Gaidens, and Kairos. Avenir was rescued by Chronos, and sent to the past, but that didn't change his own branch's history. Additionally, Karios was not a part of Avenirs branch. Kairos was an anomaly in the Saint Seiya: Lost Canvas branch. The reason Avenir was moved from his branch into the branch of Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas was strictly because of Kairos. Thus, time travel to change the past history, or past events, of a Universe is not something that exists within the Saint Seiya universe.
What ended up happening is she cured it using her own power through the connection within the flower bracelets.
Additionally, to clear up all, or any, confusion. The loss of memory is because of Apollo altering peoples memories not due to the timeline being fixed (because it never got fixed.) The whole statement of "everything will go back to its original state" is because Athena distorted the natural order of the universe.
In other words, Chronos telling her not to change history must mean some other context unrelated to time travel, otherwise her goal would be simple which in the context of the story; it has not been that simple. Thus, the whole idea of time traveling to time paradox hades sword out of existence has been entirely ditched by Kurumada.
Additionally, in Saint Seiya: Episode G Assassins, it was made evident that the "past" is definite, and cannot be undone. For example, Shura went to the past to kill Aiolios, of the Lost World. However, this had no impact on the GA/GR timeline. If it did, the sequel story of the GA timeline wouldn't happen (GR.) Shura for GR would also be time paradoxed out of existence, but that didn’t happen. The reason is because Aiolos of the Lost World played a significant role as he invaded other timelines in an attempt to merge his timeline with others. These events are an important and integral key component that leads into the events of Saint Seiya: Requiem. In addition, the changes would also affect Shura himself who became heavily influenced and reliant on his experiences that occurred during the Episode G Assassins events, but there were no changes to him or anyone else. To further support this Saga, who was turned into an owl because of the events that happened in Episode G Assassins, also remained unaffected.
Another example is Avenir from Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas Gaidens, and Kairos. Avenir was rescued by Chronos, and sent to the past, but that didn't change his own branch's history. Additionally, Karios was not a part of Avenirs branch. Kairos was an anomaly in the Saint Seiya: Lost Canvas branch. The reason Avenir was moved from his branch into the branch of Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas was strictly because of Kairos. Thus, time travel to change the past history, or past events, of a Universe is not something that exists within the Saint Seiya universe.
Uncountably infinite Explanation
The future is fluid in that it's both a dynamic continuum and a static continuum, as the future is built upon the arrangement and movement of atoms (wind/air and water movement), human actions, and even natural rhythms (Heartbeats). The universe is stated to be infinite, containing an infinite amount of stars; and thus each atom is in constant motion and continually rearranging as all things are motion, as stated by Buddha. This logically means there is an uncountably infinite number of interactions and influences that create an uncountably infinite number of points/coordinates. This is due to there being an infinite number actions that each individual atom, and naturally occurring rhythms in the universe (including atomic movements), can take at each point/coordinate in time. This creates an uncountably infinite amount of temporal axes.
Each point represents a unique configuration of the universe at a given moment. Due to the infinite amount of matter in the universe, and the continuous movement and interactions of atoms, this creates endless possibilities for how the future can unfold, which there is infinite of. This means that every moment in time is a distinct, non-repeatable event, contributing to the vast tapestry that makes up existence. The infinite branching of future possibilities results from the cumulative effects of countless micro and macro events, all interwoven to form the complex structure of time as depicted in Saint Seiya.
Everything in the universe is existing at/on some coordinate in space and time (infinite coordinates per thing/object [most particularly Stars, and Atoms]) the infinitely many existing things individually (by themselves [for example an individual atom]) are creating infinite branches in time per coordinate in 3D space and infinitely more branches per coordinate in/on the temporal axis these individually infinitely existing things exist on.
Scans are provided in the first explanation.
Verified to be Uncountably Infinite
https://vsbattles.com/profile-posts/97714/
https://vsbattles.com/profile-posts/97711/
Scans are provided in the first explanation.
Verified to be Uncountably Infinite
https://vsbattles.com/profile-posts/97714/
https://vsbattles.com/profile-posts/97711/
Conclusion
The Future is a different/separate additional Time axis and there are is an uncountably infinite number of futures all are stated to be their own independent time axis that is “different from one another.''
Thus, the Universe in Saint Seiya should be High 1-B+ because of an uncountably infinite number of temporal dimensions.
Who scales to this?
The Big Bang and anyone who scales to it.
Debunking some common arguments against this
Yes, in fact it's directly stated 2 times for us. We have very direct statements.
This is a terrible misunderstanding of the FAQ page. Yes, a perpendicular one can suggest an alternate timeline, however the time line being perpendicular is the result of Higher Time Axes which by default is taking a new direction. A causes B here, The new direction of time (The higher Time Axis) taking a perpendicular direction which has perpendicular timelines along its axis points implies the existence of a Higher Temporal dimension/axis. This is a consequence of having a Higher Time Axis/dimensions.
The FAQ page explicitly says that a direct statement is all that you need. There is no requirement for proving that it has the qualities, properties, and nature of true higher temporal dimension. If this is an issue then there needs to be a Staff only thread created to get this reworded, and then it should be mentioned somewhere that proving, even in the face of a direct statement of multiple temporal dimensions/Axes, that they have the qualities, properties, and nature a higher temporal dimension would have.
This means nothing in proving if it is Orthogonal, or if it is not. You can have a 2-C Universe holding other Low 2-C universes with this same logic due to subsets. Instead, you need a direct statement that they have their own time axis/temporal dimension, or prove the universes have the qualities, properties, or nature to have their own time axis.
Regardless, this means nothing to this CRT as its about a direct statement. It has nothing to do with “Universes inside of Universes”
I went back, and did some reading on the Staff Thread titled “Re:Evulation of Temporal Dimension standards” and the word “Different Time Axes” was used synonymously with “Separate Time Axes.” The OP of the thread also used the wording “Different Time Axis” instead of “Separate.”
Plack69 used the term “Different”
The OP of the thread also equated “Different” and “Separate” as the same thing here.
Qawsedf234 also used the term “Different” instead of “Separate”
In total the word “Different Temporal” was used a total of 23 times on the staff crt. There was absolutely 0 clarification or discussion on the difference, and nuances on something being “Different” and “Separate” and 0 clarification and elaboration on why Time Axis and Temporal Dimensions are different concepts.
If there are any differences, then the FAQ should be carefully reworded and changed to show that distinction.
In Chapter 19 of Saint Seiya Next Dimension, the depiction of the past and future as "Nebulas/Galaxies" hints at a clear separation between them. For reference, these Nebulas are stated to be different “past” and “Futures” as to quote Chronos, he tells Athena “If you so much as put a foot in another nebula you will find yourself in a different past or future.” This is heavily implying the nebulas are Separated Time Axes. Although initially suggested visually and showing gappage as a metaphorical artistic sense of separation. This portrayal gains significance when much later in the series about 60+ Chapters later, it is explicitly stated that the past and future are indeed "Different time axes.” Additionally, the statement that the futures are "Fragmented" further reinforces this sense of separation.
EDITED: New evidence different temporal directions
the Future progresses up and down not just forward or backwards.
Every “present moment” Has infinite snap shots. As the one of the lead and integral characters in Saint Seiya GA/GR known as Shura is traveling through time and moving into those infinite presents. Which are infinitely repeating events that are the same all existing as branched timelines in the same moment in time.
These pieces of evidence further suggest that all time Axes have different temporal directions
Every “present moment” Has infinite snap shots. As the one of the lead and integral characters in Saint Seiya GA/GR known as Shura is traveling through time and moving into those infinite presents. Which are infinitely repeating events that are the same all existing as branched timelines in the same moment in time.
These pieces of evidence further suggest that all time Axes have different temporal directions
Arguments Aganist the OP
Astral_Trinity439
vsbattles.com
Had a counter proposal of 5D/Low 1-C due to uncountably infinite timelines
PrinceofPein
https://vsbattles.com/threads/this-saint-seiya-crt-was-a-mistake-part-1.175436/post-6905828 only sees branching timelines
This Saint Seiya CRT Was A Mistake Part 1....................
The banshees screaming in my head made me do it...... Anyways reviving this and improving upon an older attempt that was tried earlier this year. Without any further interruptions! INTRODUCING High 1-B+ Universe and the Primary argument Is....... Proof that each Time Axis is actually...
PrinceofPein
https://vsbattles.com/threads/this-saint-seiya-crt-was-a-mistake-part-1.175436/post-6905828 only sees branching timelines
Arguments for the OP
TheUnshakeableOne
vsbattles.com
This Saint Seiya CRT Was A Mistake Part 1....................
The banshees screaming in my head made me do it...... Anyways reviving this and improving upon an older attempt that was tried earlier this year. Without any further interruptions! INTRODUCING High 1-B+ Universe and the Primary argument Is....... Proof that each Time Axis is actually...
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