They're Not Gonna Sugarcoat It [V1 Ultrakill vs. Wolf (Sekiro)] (0-2-5)

[Chritin]

Are his training AD and power mimicry even combat-applicable or are they actually that good in actual combat? That aside, V1 has fought their descendant, who is almost exactly comparable to them in skill, and later even used IA and PM to copy V1’s stuff.

He was able to master using the Shinobi prosthetic upon getting it, even though the sculptor (who himself was a master shinobi and comparable in skill to people like prime isshin) said it took him hours to get used to. Sekiro also has feats of fighting people who he is comparable too and outskilling them. He even created memories of people significantly stronger than their primes and beat them without dying.

About combat skill, in cqc, sure, but in general? V1 has so much more mobility and marksmanship, able to strafe around him ad infinitum and spam ranged blitz-tier shots. V1 has also fought opponents with actual close combat and martial arts skills, even if the nikkon was inferior. Does it even matter to be a better fighter if you can’t touch your opponent that much?

The fight starts with both fighters 10 meters away, so for V1 to get to a distance where his marksmanship would be important he would have to run even further away. That's also implying that Sekiro has no from of range. He has the grapple on his prosthetic which he can use to pursue V1, and he has his shuriken's which he can preform chasing slashes off of, or just straight up stun airborne enemies with. Even if V1 can use his firearms at an effective distance, Sekiro has experience with fighting multiple firearm users such as in the gun fort of the sunken valley with dozens of gunmen shooting at him, or even Isshin with switch flintlock lol.

And the fact that even if they have to get close, they have Feedbacker to cancel or reflect effects with much more force back at him, along with various other things going on

If we are going of Feedbacker's AP being arbitrarily higher than his AP, then I guess it could deflect some standard attacks that Wolf has (although he still does have definitively higher AP so idk how effective that would be though). Unlike Wolf's deflection though, Feedbacker has a cooldown timer and can't be spammed, or at least not for any long period of time. There's also the fact that Wolf's LS is much higher than V1's, so I do think Wolf could push against it considering how deflection in Sekiro is somewhat based on LS.

"Higher AP" here is 1.15x, which is practically a nonexistent gap. And deathblows are OP mainly because they target pressure points right? Anything that’s not a deathblow doesn’t even deal that much damage. Unless Sekiro aims for their neck, which should realistically and categorically be their weak point I guess? V1 has no vital areas, when a huge harpoon from a peep who upscales from the initial value impales them, they don’t even take that much damage lol. And that’s assuming Sekiro can land a deathblow on V1, considering they have pretty much everything to counter him

Why would Sekiro's normal attacks not matter when the fact that normal attacks don't immediately kill enemies is a part of literally every game. By that logic, someone like Kratos barely scales to any other character cause his normal attacks don't do much damage, or even V1's bullets don't do much since it takes multiple shots to kill a boss. Obviously they'd hurt V1, and more so than other characters in his own verse considering that AP gap still exists.

Also, Sekiro doesn't have set pressure points to kill people at. He's able to visualize spots to instantly kill people by hitting, and while they can be the neck or other places, there are cases where he literally just stabs people in the head to kill them. Unless there's evidence that V1 has some kind of type 2 immortality where he can survive getting hurt in vital areas, I don't see him surviving a death blow.

Also. again with the damage stuff, that's just kind of apart of games. Usually, unless a character gets hit in a specific a specific cutscene and we see them survive a serious attack it doesn't really matter. Wolf's can get his neck sliced and survive, but it doesn't mean he can completely survived getting decapitated or something.

 

[Chritin]

I don't know how deathblows count in a fight like this. But Wolf can also deathblow ghosts both on the ground and off it and I don't think ghosts have pressure points.

Also yeah, this too. Its called pressure points on his profile cause that's just an easy way of describing it, but it isn't inherently working off pressure points. Just instant kill spots

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Also, again, Sekiro can Amp his power by a lot to deal massive damage. As I've said, he has his red and crimson spiritfalls, which are infinite in uses, and divine confetti, both of which can stack. I'm not sure what the boost is in terms of pure numbers, but I can say it's a lot. If it comes down to it, and Wolf has both stacked in the fight, who's to say that V1 won't get caught off guard by an empowered Mortal Draw's extended range boost.

 

[Jerry59]

The fight starts with both fighters 10 meters away, so for V1 to get to a distance where his marksmanship would be important he would have to run even further away. That's also implying that Sekiro has no from of range. He has the grapple on his prosthetic which he can use to pursue V1, and he has his shuriken's which he can preform chasing slashes off of, or just straight up stun airborne enemies with. Even if V1 can use his firearms at an effective distance, Sekiro has experience with fighting multiple firearm users such as in the gun fort of the sunken valley with dozens of gunmen shooting at him, or even Isshin with switch flintlock lol.

10 meters isn't a range where V1 necessarily needs to run further away no? Yeah ofc having more distance between them would help V1, but they'd still do fine with their arsenal regardless of the distance. They also have a grapple arm of their own and can still do many other things. Not sure how shurikens could stun a robot, granted, would they even hit once? And yeah he had experience with guns from the 1590s–1600s, while V1 uses a sci-fi arsenal that Wolf has not only never seen before but also provides tons of utility and mobility. Do NOT compare mere flintlocks to these

If we are going of Feedbacker's AP being arbitrarily higher than his AP, then I guess it could deflect some standard attacks that Wolf has (although he still does have definitively higher AP so idk how effective that would be though). Unlike Wolf's deflection though, Feedbacker has a cooldown timer and can't be spammed, or at least not for any long period of time. There's also the fact that Wolf's LS is much higher than V1's, so I do think Wolf could push against it considering how deflection in Sekiro is somewhat based on LS.

Yeah no, when did I say Feedbacker has higher AP than V1 themselves pray tell? It's literally one of the weakest parts of V1's arsenal in terms of AP, and its main function is canceling out or reflecting effects in a way that don’t really respond to typical physical force. And Feedbacker’s cooldown is like, what, 0~1 sec lol ? It exists purely for balance, it just acts like an arm, that's it. And pushing against V1 doesn't mean anything because its parry is striking strength. Literally their entire verse has higher LS than V1, yet when they get parried, their attack either gets canceled out or just keeps going while taking huge damages. And Wolf doesn’t actually have anything that would stress out Feedbacker or V1 themselves anyway

Why would Sekiro's normal attacks not matter when the fact that normal attacks don't immediately kill enemies is a part of literally every game. By that logic, someone like Kratos barely scales to any other character cause his normal attacks don't do much damage, or even V1's bullets don't do much since it takes multiple shots to kill a boss. Obviously they'd hurt V1, and more so than other characters in his own verse considering that AP gap still exists.

Nice argument about the logic of normal attacks not immediately killing enemies. Yeah the fact that they don’t kill fodders is purely a game mechanic, but against an opponent comparable to them ? And the difference in AP between Wolf and V1 isn’t even that huge ? It also depends on their pain tolerance and other factors. And I NEVER said it would deal NO damage to V1, just that it's not nearly enough, since he can't land that many normal attacks on them. Your own logic is flawed

Also, Sekiro doesn't have set pressure points to kill people at. He's able to visualize spots to instantly kill people by hitting, and while they can be the neck or other places, there are cases where he literally just stabs people in the head to kill them. Unless there's evidence that V1 has some kind of type 2 immortality where he can survive getting hurt in vital areas, I don't see him surviving a death blow.

Sure then. Now just reminding you that the Mortal Blade negs type 2 immortality, and comparable enemies are capable of surviving two or three hits from it. Btw someone similar but also a coward like V2 can run away after loss of limb, while V1 themselves was doing just fine with a harpoon impaled through them. Said harpoon came from beings superior to those who are comparable to V1 in terms of stats. So there ya go, they can survive at least one deathblow. And again, good luck landing them

Also. again with the damage stuff, that's just kind of apart of games. Usually, unless a character gets hit in a specific a specific cutscene and we see them survive a serious attack it doesn't really matter. Wolf's can get his neck sliced and survive, but it doesn't mean he can completely survived getting decapitated or something.

Aye I agree. Now tell me, why are you bringing that up here? Canonically maybe Wolf should have been split in half after getting hit by something like Ashina Cross instead of remaining intact yea. Good stuff, because V1 and pretty much everyone else in that verse have actually been shown to get impaled or pierced with blood showering from them! Splattered is even a thing so

Also, again, Sekiro can Amp his power by a lot to deal massive damage. As I've said, he has his red and crimson spiritfalls, which are infinite in uses, and divine confetti, both of which can stack. I'm not sure what the boost is in terms of pure numbers, but I can say it's a lot. If it comes down to it, and Wolf has both stacked in the fight, who's to say that V1 won't get caught off guard by an empowered Mortal Draw's extended range boost.

Talking about Mortal Draw’s range boost as if it's something V1 hasn’t dealt with before? They’ve fought opponents with scaling chains that put them borderline one-shot tier above the CoKM feat and have been able to parry minuscule bullets that no one in the verse can react to because their timing and aimdodge skills and mental calculation feats are pretty darn good

 

[Chritin]

10 meters isn't a range where V1 necessarily needs to run further away no? Yeah ofc having more distance between them would help V1, but they'd still do fine with their arsenal regardless of the distance. They also have a grapple arm of their own and can still do many other things. Not sure how shurikens could stun a robot, granted, would they even hit once? And yeah he had experience with guns from the 1590s–1600s, while V1 uses a sci-fi arsenal that Wolf has not only never seen before but also provides tons of utility and mobility. Do NOT compare mere flintlocks to these

The problem isn't V1 not being able to use his weapons that close, its that Wolf is significantly more effective in that range, to the point where I don't think his arsenal would help him. The shurikens just stun anything they hit mid air: "The swiftly thrown shuriken damages enemy Vitality and Posture, particularly against those with a tendency to take to the air." There's also the phantom kunai upgrade which does the same thing, and is even resistant to being guarded. Also, while the weapons are different from what Wolf has experienced, their speed and potency shouldn't be. For this matchup, the speed of the characters is equalized, but something like a random gun shouldn't be, and thus he should be able to deflect most if not all projectiles fired at him. Also, don't dare besmirch Isshin's glock flintlock lol.

Yeah no, when did I say Feedbacker has higher AP than V1 themselves pray tell? It's literally one of the weakest parts of V1's arsenal in terms of AP, and its main function is canceling out or reflecting effects in a way that don’t really respond to typical physical force. And Feedbacker’s cooldown is like, what, 0~1 sec lol ? It exists purely for balance, it just acts like an arm, that's it. And pushing against V1 doesn't mean anything because its parry is striking strength. Literally their entire verse has higher LS than V1, yet when they get parried, their attack either gets canceled out or just keeps going while taking huge damages. And Wolf doesn’t actually have anything that would stress out Feedbacker or V1 themselves anyway

"they have Feedbacker to cancel or reflect effects with much more force back at him, along with various other things going on". That to me sounds like you are saying he can exert more force with this arm to deflect attacks. Also, my point was that Wolf's parry is just completely better. It has no cooldown and can be spammed as fast as blocks can be input, and if you want to go off striking strength for parries, then Wolf has stronger parries as well.

Nice argument about the logic of normal attacks not immediately killing enemies. Yeah the fact that they don’t kill fodders is purely a game mechanic, but against an opponent comparable to them ? And the difference in AP between Wolf and V1 isn’t even that huge ? It also depends on their pain tolerance and other factors. And I NEVER said it would deal NO damage to V1, just that it's not nearly enough, since he can't land that many normal attacks on them. Your own logic is flawed

I'm not saying Wolf would instakill someone he's close to either. Again though, my argument was centered around deathblows and how Wolf does have a way to deal a large amount of damage to V1 basically instantly, and it wouldn't even be as much of a problem considering how he's stronger. Also if you want to talk about pain tolerance, Wolf has him beat there as well.

Sure then. Now just reminding you that the Mortal Blade negs type 2 immortality, and comparable enemies are capable of surviving two or three hits from it. Btw someone similar but also a coward like V2 can run away after loss of limb, while V1 themselves was doing just fine with a harpoon impaled through them. Said harpoon came from beings superior to those who are comparable to V1 in terms of stats. So there ya go, they can survive at least one deathblow. And again, good luck landing them

The mortal blade functions like any other katana except it does direct damage to a person's vitality whether or not they guard against it. Its weapon arts basically function like normal attacks though, with it basically just being a potent katana. Wolf can also use the mortal blade for deathblows, all of which instantly kill the enemies he hits. This is just the same thing you said before. I'm not saying that any of his standard attacks are going to instakill V1, but Wolf can preform deathblows with both that will. And again with the harpoon thing, Wolf can visualize spots that will deal massive damage to his enemy, so obviously if stabbing V1 in the gut wouldn't do anything then he isn't going to preform it as a deathblow. What he can do is attack him LITERALLY ANYWHERE ELSE. Like what's V1's defense against having his head stabbed through, or some other vital component that the harpoon didn't destroy. You'd have to prove that there are no weak spots on V1, or that he has some kind of Type 2 immortality where he can function without vital parts of his body.

Aye I agree. Now tell me, why are you bringing that up here? Canonically maybe Wolf should have been split in half after getting hit by something like Ashina Cross instead of remaining intact yea. Good stuff, because V1 and pretty much everyone else in that verse have actually been shown to get impaled or pierced with blood showering from them! Splattered is even a thing so

So have Sekiro characters as well? Wolf gets his arm cut off and has survived getting stabbed multiple times in cutscenes. That's the point though, they were choreographed events that we see, not just visual effects layer on top of moments where he gets hit. If V1 has that too then sure that's fine, but you still haven't shown direct evidence of that.

Talking about Mortal Draw’s range boost as if it's something V1 hasn’t dealt with before? They’ve fought opponents with scaling chains that put them borderline one-shot tier above the CoKM feat and have been able to parry minuscule bullets that no one in the verse can react to because their timing and aimdodge skills and mental calculation feats are pretty darn good

I don't get what the argument is here. We are saying that Wolf already has the edge on V1 in a lot of ways, and along with that has stat and range boosts. So to just say V1 has dealt with arbitrarily stronger attacks in the past doesn't have any ground to stand on when just going off of his feats and stats he is undoubtedly weaker.

Overall, I really don't see how V1 has much of a good chance. He has to get by an AP, skill, hax, and immortality gap without having any noteworthy tools. Sure there are ways he could win, but it seems like you are grasping at straws for that to be true.

 

[Chritin]

Also, totally forgot to talk about this before, but Wolf has really good stealth + invisibility that V1 doesn’t have experience with as far as I know (at least with him not having any kind of ESP to see him). That’s another way for Wolf to get in close and just maul him in CQC

 

[Chariot190]

How good is V1 with stealth.
Wolf is probably going to die. Except on the runback he's gonna do the whole stealth thing because that's literally his MO. Wolf obviously has stealth mastery, but he also has various things that amp up his stealth capabilities like some sugars. And this is all while his foe would assume he's dead, because he like, died, so not so sure if he'd really expect the dude who just died to stealth him.

There's also that teleport-esque prosthetic to get in close too.

 

[Homie890]

yeah, seems to be a incon.

 

[Jerry59]

admittedly I read and try to argue back in a hasty manner and got the main point wrong (being able to argue only at midnight is hard ya know)

The problem isn't V1 not being able to use his weapons that close, its that Wolf is significantly more effective in that range, to the point where I don't think his arsenal would help him. The shurikens just stun anything they hit mid air: "The swiftly thrown shuriken damages enemy Vitality and Posture, particularly against those with a tendency to take to the air." There's also the phantom kunai upgrade which does the same thing, and is even resistant to being guarded. Also, while the weapons are different from what Wolf has experienced, their speed and potency shouldn't be. For this matchup, the speed of the characters is equalized, but something like a random gun shouldn't be, and thus he should be able to deflect most if not all projectiles fired at him.

So, the thing is, Wolf excels in close combat, which- eh

About combat skill, in cqc, sure, but in general?

Ok ? Feedbacker doesn’t necessarily require V1 to have crazy CQC skills because it was done with a single punch that deals significantly more damage than usual (due to amplification, reflection, stuff like thay where “stuff” here doesn’t even need to be an actual attack). Phantom kunai can bypass guards, but Deflect still works against them iirc. V1’s parry does the same thing, except it also reflects them back with greater damage and speed. I also don’t really get this part- aye their combat speed is equalized, but their weapons shouldn’t be- AND that’s why they’re going to work, because Wolf cannot react to Revolvers and Railcannons, let alone the fact that V1 can ricochet these shots in whatever pattern they want (and the bullets are minuscule) (also has he ever deflected a machine gun that can surpass its own fire rate when overheated?)
Also gotta say again, V1 has much better mobility and the tools to counter pretty much anything Wolf has. He’s not getting close to V1 that easily at all

"they have Feedbacker to cancel or reflect effects with much more force back at him, along with various other things going on". That to me sounds like you are saying he can exert more force with this arm to deflect attacks. Also, my point was that Wolf's parry is just completely better. It has no cooldown and can be spammed as fast as blocks can be input, and if you want to go off striking strength for parries, then Wolf has stronger parries as well.

Aye my bad on the explanation part, though it’s also shown in V1’s pfp, so you should have just checked there instead eh. And nah, Wolf’s parry isn’t completely better. If V1 attacks Wolf, he deflects them. But if Wolf attacks V1 or is in the stance of doing so, they reflect all the damage (and also amplified) back at him. My point in bringing up SS is that whether he has LS or not, he’s still gonna get parried. It doesn’t matter if V1 gets pushed back because that literally happens even when they fight mid-tiers in their verse lol. And being able to spam doesn’t really matter when their speed of pulling out parries isn’t that far apart ? (Feedbacker is literally just punching and its cd is, again, 0~1 sec ingame). V1 clearly has an edge in parries because they can reflect Wolf's attacks in more ways and with greater impact

Also if you want to talk about pain tolerance, Wolf has him beat there as well.

Clearly I’m not actually talking about pain tolerance, but it’s silly to think Wolf is better than V1, a literal machine, at that lol. And even if we assume V1 can feel pain, a similar machine like V2 was able to run away after losing an arm and still fight and kill others (and just saying, that’s not NLF, they’re exactly the same aside from durability and combat prowess), meanwhile Wolf died after having his arm chopped off iirc

The mortal blade functions like any other katana except it does direct damage to a person's vitality whether or not they guard against it. Its weapon arts basically function like normal attacks though, with it basically just being a potent katana. Wolf can also use the mortal blade for deathblows, all of which instantly kill the enemies he hits. This is just the same thing you said before. I'm not saying that any of his standard attacks are going to instakill V1, but Wolf can preform deathblows with both that will. And again with the harpoon thing, Wolf can visualize spots that will deal massive damage to his enemy, so obviously if stabbing V1 in the gut wouldn't do anything then he isn't going to preform it as a deathblow. What he can do is attack him LITERALLY ANYWHERE ELSE. Like what's V1's defense against having his head stabbed through, or some other vital component that the harpoon didn't destroy. You'd have to prove that there are no weak spots on V1, or that he has some kind of Type 2 immortality where he can function without vital parts of his body.

Yeah bud i think I already know that the Mortal Blade is just a potent katana aside from its Deathblows, and spare me I might not read or forgot the "visualize spots to instantly kill" stuff

If V1 has that too then sure that's fine, but you still haven't shown direct evidence of that.

V2 lost their arm in Act 1 and was still able to run away and kill other machines, and the like. Both V1 and 2 also survived being pierced by Revolvers, explosions, and whatnot- if that’s all you need ig

I don't get what the argument is here. We are saying that Wolf already has the edge on V1 in a lot of ways, and along with that has stat and range boosts. So to just say V1 has dealt with arbitrarily stronger attacks in the past doesn't have any ground to stand on when just going off of his feats and stats he is undoubtedly weaker.

Overall, I really don't see how V1 has much of a good chance. He has to get by an AP, skill, hax, and immortality gap without having any noteworthy tools. Sure there are ways he could win, but it seems like you are grasping at straws for that to be true.

Aye, my bad for the poor argument again. Gonna add that these aren’t gonna catch V1 off guard at all since they actually have feats and stuff that give them the overall edge. And ngl, it seems more like you’re arbitrarily judging shit rather than me saying V1 deals with arbitrarily stronger and better feats, but whatever
Btw if you think I’m grasping at straws and being stubborn, you’d be surprised if you saw that one Goku vs Uzi match lol, especially since we haven’t even yap that much yet. Is Wolf anywhere near V1’s mobility, and can he actually catch up to them with his tools, without ignoring the fact that V1 can counter most of them and has an equally potent parry? You do realize V1 heavily outskills him in ranged combat and is much better at keeping distance than Wolf is at outskilling them in cqc and keeping V1 close right? I’m trying my best to be fair here since I am literally the OP, sigh.

yeah, seems to be a incon.

Counted

Tho (after writing out all these arguments), it seems like Sekiro's stealth is actually cracked, so I guess he does win anyway lmao this is ass

 

[Jerry59]

How good is V1 with stealth.
Wolf is probably going to die. Except on the runback he's gonna do the whole stealth thing because that's literally his MO. Wolf obviously has stealth mastery, but he also has various things that amp up his stealth capabilities like some sugars. And this is all while his foe would assume he's dead, because he like, died, so not so sure if he'd really expect the dude who just died to stealth him.

There's also that teleport-esque prosthetic to get in close too.

Like, just basic stuff. I assume that’s not enough to deal with Wolf’s stealth at all ?

Though teleporting doesn’t really work since V1 has fought tons of teleporters (if that even matters here ig)

 

[Chariot190]

Like, just basic stuff. I assume that’s not enough to deal with Wolf’s stealth at all ?

Idk, it's been awhile, but I know Wolf has items to buff stealth, so eh.

Though teleporting doesn’t really work since V1 has fought tons of teleporters (if that even matters here ig)

What's that matter though? He might have experience but can he stop the teleportation from enabling Wolf to get into CQC? If he can, fair, but if he can't, that puts him at an extreme disadvantage as CQC is where Wolf is going to have the advantage by quite a bit.

 

[Jerry59]

What's that matter though? He might have experience but can he stop the teleportation from enabling Wolf to get into CQC? If he can, fair, but if he can't, that puts him at an extreme disadvantage as CQC is where Wolf is going to have the advantage by quite a bit.

Ehhh V1 definitely only has experience, but like, the teleports leave something he should be cautious of (the feathers ya know), and it only has a decent distance, so unless Wolf can straight-up spam it, he should be fine
btw this is the kind of teleport V1 has to deal with if you wonder (the green succubus machine teleporting I mean (might give a better scan later idk) and yes Cybergrind is canon

 

[Chariot190]

Ehhh V1 definitely only has experience, but like, the teleports leave something he should be cautious of (the feathers ya know), and it only has a decent distance, so unless Wolf can straight-up spam it, he should be fine
btw this is the kind of teleport V1 has to deal with if you wonder (the green succubus machine teleporting I mean (might give a better scan later idk) and yes Cybergrind is canon

They start 10m apart, Wolf can spam it as long as he has the ammo stuff. Assuming he starts with max.
One variant also catches things on fire so that's neat.

Though looking at Wolf's stuff, he does have ranged and weird stuff, like he has a shield that's magnetic, that might be handy, he also has various ranged attacks so he isn't helpless at a distance.

Though I just think he probably dies, respawns, and then stealths to kill.

 

[Homie890]

Ehhh V1 definitely only has experience, but like, the teleports leave something he should be cautious of (the feathers ya know), and it only has a decent distance, so unless Wolf can straight-up spam it, he should be fine
btw this is the kind of teleport V1 has to deal with if you wonder (the green succubus machine teleporting I mean (might give a better scan later idk) and yes Cybergrind is canon

Isn't the Mindflayer blue?
also i was about to ask the most stupid question lmao.