There is niether Old Kratos nor New Kratos, just Kratos.

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

As the title clearly says there are no different versions of Kratos in the God of War franchise.
But people think Greek Kratos and Norse Kratos are two different beings, when that has never been the case. Anyone who has even casually gone over the basic story outline of all games can confidently say that. He is the same person, but one who has gone under some significant character growth and noticeable power downgrade since his departure from Greek Reality for example his loss of God powers and Power of Hope. He has a new family in a Norse reality and new challenges ahead of him. But neither is a reason to warrant a new profile. We don't give new profile just because there is some power shift, character/personality change or location change.

Some people still insist that GoW2K18 is a reboot, thus warrants a new profile for Kratos, but that is a blatant misinterpretation of games. GoW2K18 is a reboot because it goes under a rather drastic gameplay shift. Divorcing itself from popular and bonafide freeform type of hack and slash adventure style gameplay with stylised comical presentation to more story driven, grounded souls like gameplay with "realistic" style of presentation relative to Greek Saga.
But that's where "Reboot" descriptor starts and ends respectively, because story is still a direct continuation of Kratos' journey.
This is even said by Bruno Vasquez himself.



So I propose them merging together under one profiles.
There are other technical reasons for this merger. Currently many people think that Norse Kratos doesn't have many of his innate abilities/resistances from his Greek self solely because Norse Kratos is suffering gross negligence from us. It wasn't untill last year that majority of his innate stuff were added to him, but even then they lack justifications and such. Even to this day Norse Kratos lacks NPI and Soul Manipulation even though that is Kratos' innate ability EVEN without magic, and there are many more.
Merging the profiles will solve all this problem, since innate stuff will carry over keys naturally and we don’t even need to mention those let alone justify them.
Norse Key will get more attention, more attention will ensure more motivation among fandom to maintain said profile. Maintainance of profile itself becomes far more user friendly along with interpretation of Norse Kratos by readers.
That's 3 good reasons to have just one profile for Kratos, I bet there are others as well.

Here is the sandbox created by hardwork of our dear Mr @KLOL506
This is how the new profile will look.

Agree:- Klol, Glass, DMAubin, USlayer, KTempest, Elizhaa, Oliver, Mister, Shuradou, DarkSmash, WGecko, Bern, MQuake, Bob, Lightning, RedReaper.

Disgaree:- DDM, Planck, Rusty(?), HBeast, Dust.

Neutral:- Rusty(?)

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Range: "A few hundred meters melee range by sheer virtue of size"

what?

 

[Mister6ame6]

Range: "A few hundred meters melee range by sheer virtue of size"

what?

Is for when Kratos grow bigger enough to fight Ares in GOW1 and to destroy the city of Athena in GOW2, he get this range by sheer size alone.

Anyway, great job guys, i'm agree with the merging of Greek and Norse profiles.

 

[Hellbeast]

I've pointed out my dislike of this before but I'd like to point out everyone is aware he's the same guy; that's not remotely why he's split
I think, as much as effort has been put into the new profile, it's needlessly convoluted and we could probably, you know, just fix the damn 2018 Profile like has been explicitly mentioned before

I don't really care either way but I think the separation is the cleaner option; especially with Kratos clearly not having his journey end in Ragnarok

Like are we going to add his stuff from an eventual Egypt series to the same profile to further bloat it? We probably shouldn't and with further additions that are clearly planned to the Greek profile (like Giving him Hades' abilities and others I've seen discussed) it risks further bloating an already massive profile. Like we're essentially just giving him three separate tiers per key (which is ugly as ****) and even when the planned unifying that Glass plans happens (probably will be ages away because he's seemingly doing Castlevania) it's still essentially four keys repeating the same tiering with a different description.

If 2018 Kratos sucks, fix it, add citations, add abilities and I can give you a hand with that. But I think merging is only a temporary solution and it's not aesthetically pleasing imo. Again not a roast or anything of KLOL's work but It feels too damn big and it's only getting bigger as we not only move on with later revisions and additions but also as the lore continues post Ragnarok.

 

[Bernkastelll]

As the title clearly says there are no different versions of Kratos in the God of War franchise.
But people think Greek Kratos and Norse Kratos are two different beings, when that has never been the case. Anyone who has even casually gone over the basic story outline of all games can confidently say that. He is the same person, but one who has gone under some significant character growth and noticeable power downgrade since his departure from Greek Reality for example his loss of God powers and Power of Hope. He has a new family in a Norse reality and new challenges ahead of him. But neither is a reason to warrant a new profile. We don't give new profile just because there is some power shift, character/personality change or location change.

Some people still insist that GoW2K18 is a reboot, thus warrants a new profile for Kratos, but that is a blatant misinterpretation of games. GoW2K18 is a reboot because it goes under a rather drastic gameplay shift. Divorcing itself from popular and bonafide freeform type of hack and slash adventure style gameplay with stylised comical presentation to more story driven, grounded souls like gameplay with "realistic" style of presentation relative to Greek Saga.
But that's where "Reboot" descriptor starts and ends respectively, because story is still a direct continuation of Kratos' journey.
This is even said by Bruno Vasquez himself.



So I propose them merging together under one profiles.
There are other technical reasons for this merger. Currently many people think that Norse Kratos doesn't have many of his innate abilities/resistances from his Greek self solely because Norse Kratos is suffering gross negligence from us. It wasn't untill last year that majority of his innate stuff were added to him, but even then they lack justifications and such. Even to this day Norse Kratos lacks NPI and Soul Manipulation even though that is Kratos' innate ability EVEN without magic, and there are many more.
Merging the profiles will solve all this problem, since innate stuff will carry over keys naturally and we don’t even need to mention those let alone justify them.
Norse Key will get more attention, more attention will ensure more motivation among fandom to maintain said profile. Maintainance of profile itself becomes far more user friendly along with interpretation of Norse Kratos by readers.
That's 3 good reasons to have just one profile for Kratos, I bet there are others as well.

Here is the sandbox created by hardwork of our dear Mr @KLOL506
This is how the new profile will look.

I agree with this, I disagree with separated pages for the same character, like how Part 1 and Part II naruto works, I agree with merging Kratos into a single page, because he is a single character.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Is for when Kratos grow bigger enough to fight Ares in GOW1 and to destroy the city of Athena in GOW2, he get this range by sheer size alone.
.

yes i know that, the thing is it should add that this was with his size manipulation and he doesn't always get such a size, as well as adding another range separation for PoH and 2018

 

[Ningenron]

I always thought that was quite redundant, so yeah, I totally agree with the OP's proposal.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I've pointed out my dislike of this before but I'd like to point out everyone is aware he's the same guy; that's not remotely why he's separated.

Profiles may have been separated with good intentions with full cognizance of technical requirements alone. But it doesn't help when detractors purposely or new comers innocently think that they are separated characters. Norse Kratos has garnered this reputation like it or not. This merger will definitely help in preventing that.

I think, as much as effort has been put into the new profile, it's needlessly convoluted and we could probably, you know, just fix the damn 2018 Profile like has been explicitly mentioned before

And yet we are nowhere closer to that goal then were last year. I am not pessimistic to say we won't ever get it fixxed...we certainly will, but this makes it much easier as I have already explained why.

Like are we going to add his stuff from an eventual Egypt series to the same profile to further bloat it? We probably shouldn't and with further additions that are clearly planned to the Greek profile (like Giving him Hades' abilities and others I've seen discussed) it risks further bloating an already massive profile. Like we're essentially just giving him three separate tiers per key (which is ugly as ****) and even when the planned unifying that Glass plans happens (probably will be ages away because he's seemingly doing Castlevania) it's still essentially four keys repeating the same tiering with a different description.

Glass' Castlevania grind is at an end, then we will solely concentrate on big GoW cleanup which will take most of our attention and efforts... definitely keep us blissfully busy.

Egypt is still 5-6 years off after release of Ragnarock, lot of time mull over future presentation of the profile.

As for Ragnarock. We don't even know if we need to make a separate key for it. We have already collapsed Greek from 6 keys to 3, I bet if Ragnarock doesn't do something drastically different(which is likey)... we will just update it into current Norse Kratos key and present his peak or most versatile version.
Either way is fine 1 or 1 keys for Norse Kratos.

And lets not forget we are operating under 3 layers of tabbers... so its not as bad as you make it sound. Besides there are other characters from different series which despite undergoing straight stories are presented in multiple mind boggling number of episodes/games leading to big ass profiles... yet we don't split them, so why should we split Kratos??
And don't dare mention HST, they are problem children.

I respect your opinion keeping the profile aesthetically pleasing, your
But I think its best decided by masses, since two people alone cannot decide fate of a profile's presentation. Popular consensus needs to determine which version will apears more beautiful, like some ******* profile version of Beauty competition kek.
or maybe some different person will come up with new solution, lets see.

 

[Hellbeast]

Profiles may have been separated with good intentions with full cognizance of technical requirements alone. But it doesn't help when detractors purposely or new comers innocently think that they are separated characters. Norse Kratos has garnered this reputation like it or not. This merger will definitely help in preventing that.

And this could be resolved but idk..
Adding a note
Hell even listing information from the Greek games would be enough and I've never seriously seen anyone conflate them as wholly separate characters

And yet we are nowhere closer to that goal then were last year. I am not pessimistic to say we won't ever get it fixxed...we certainly will, but this makes it much easier as I have already explained why.

Because the big thread we were using got absolutely abandoned by all, you included
If you simply ask I can establish a Discord or Group convo we can fix this

Glass' Castlevania grind is at an end, then we will solely concentrate on big GoW cleanup which will take most of our attention and efforts... definitely keep us blissfully busy.

Huh TIL
Good on him since that was ******* huge

Egypt is still 5-6 years off after release of Ragnarock, lot of time mull over future presentation of the profile.

So what we just hope this won't change in 5 years
Ragnarok was four years off from 2018 and we couldn't just put that as a key then because screw it

We need to think long term here since it's clear Kratos isn't ending here and may even have further material fleshing him out

Fallen God is getting a season 2 and we could see further supplementary material to promote 2018 and in the interim between now and the next series.

As for Ragnarock. We don't even know if we need to make a separate key for it. We have already collapsed Greek from 6 keys to 3, I bet if Ragnarock doesn't do something drastically different(which is unlikey)... we will just update it into current Norse Kratos key and present his peak or most versatile version.

And we have no confirmation they won't which is especially important since this is going to elaborate on the scaling we already have and likely add new hax to the characters

And lets not forget we are operating under 3 layers of tabbers... so its not as bad as you make it sound. Besides there are other characters from different series which despite undergoing straight stories are presented in multiple mind boggling number of episodes/games... we don't split them, so why should we split Kratos??

True but it still runs the risk of over complexity and making it difficult for less familiar readers to actively internalize what the page is saying.
And for every example you give of not splitting profiles I can prolly think of one that we do so point is moot regardless. And again we need to decide what is best for this verse, not what worked for other verses actively maintained by different members with their own ideas.

I respect your opinion keeping the profile aesthetically pleasing, your

Thank you

But I think its best decided by masses, since two people alone cannot decide fate of a profile's presentation. Popular consensus needs to determine which version will apears more beautiful, like some ******* profile version of Beauty competition kek.
or maybe some different person will come up with new solution, lets see.

Frankly I agree with that; I don't really care either way, I just prefer the current method and fixing the 2018 profile accordingly (which I lowkey wanna do)
Plus ngl I think Greek is missing something AP wise

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

A opinion from an offsite friend we both know....

Create a ******* table of contents for which kratos profile you want to view? People can sort their way through a single profile on their own easily. going to multiple profiles for the same exact character is beyond redundant.

 

[Hellbeast]

I get the suggestion but the current tabber mentioning the different profiles works the exact same way
Add a note to the effect of

Note: The current profile focuses on Kratos during the original series of games and it's supplementary media
For the character seen from God of War (2018) see this profile

Note: This profile focuses Kratos during the series of games started with God of War (2018)
For the character's time in the original series see this profile

Obviously not great on wording but I think it's clearer then risking convolution by adding a table of contents that isn't (to my knowledge) part of the traditional page structure.

I certainly understand the reasoning; I just don't think it's worth doing for the reasons I've mentioned but also the fact that we prolly need to add 2018 Kratos' optional equipment/hax via armors and pommels

EDIT: Also minor issue but
Why is "upper level Gods mentioned". Like they just scale to Helios which Kratos already scales to via reaction so like just list the Helios thing and leave it at that.

 

[WanderingGecko]

i'd have to agree with the op, having two different profiles for the same character is kinda a sore in the eye

 

[KingTempest]

Kratos has too many keys for it all to be smushed into one profile

 

[Hellbeast]

I'd also note the profile doesn't account for his self during the GOW comics and his pre Ares life or the fact he might have been weaker in Ghost of Sparta and the "modern" segment of the GOW Comics

There's an argument to be made for relevence there but it's worth noting if we're going to aim for the profile to be "comprehensive as possible"

 

[Mister6ame6]

yes i know that, the thing is it should add that this was with his size manipulation and he doesn't always get such a size, as well as adding another range separation for PoH and 2018

Ahhh ok then, fair enough for me, since he only have that when he is bigger it should be explained a bit better in Kratos's profile.

 

[Hellbeast]

Ahhh ok then, fair enough for me, since he only have that when he is bigger it should be explained a bit better in Kratos's profile.

Peraps a Varies with range could work
with the "up to" referring to giant Kratos?

 

[Megaquake2012]

Kratos has too many keys for it all to be smushed into one profile

Are you kidding me? Greek Kratos only has 3 keys....adding a 4th key for Norse isn't too much to ask for. I agree with the merger.

 

[Hellbeast]

Which each have three separate tiers on their own easily

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't recall it ever being stated he was a different character; only that it's the same character but different generation. Similar to how Kid Goku and Adult Goku get separate profiles to make their list of abilities more organized. In Goku's case, it's because he'd have far too many keys, but in Kratos case; it's more or less because plenty of his individual keys have too big walls of haxes with the reboot possibly losing some. In cases where future keys actually lose plenty of abilities, I sometimes prefer making new profiles to leave it more organized and people don't have to copy paste only the abilities that remain since we can't just say "All previous plus". And never liked "All previous except" statements as they're prone to be verbose.

 

[Hellbeast]

TBH we could even have a sub tabber for stuff Kratos hasn't shown but likely would have?
At least for his inherent stuff

 

[Darksmash]

Agree with OP

 

[KLOL506]

Range: "A few hundred meters melee range by sheer virtue of size"

what?

Size Manip.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Size Manip.

Come on man, that's already discussed

 

[KLOL506]

Kratos has too many keys for it all to be smushed into one profile

And? It's still the same character with the same story progression.

Also like Megaquake said, it's just four keys. It's not like Norse is gonna have any more games post-Ragnarok. Remember, Greek Kratos had like, 6 keys and nobody batted an eye on that before we cleaned that shit up.

 

[KLOL506]

Come on man, that's already discussed

Ninja'd.

 

[KLOL506]

I don't recall it ever being stated he was a different character; only that it's the same character but different generation. Similar to how Kid Goku and Adult Goku get separate profiles to make their list of abilities more organized. In Goku's case, it's because he'd have far too many keys, but in Kratos case; it's more or less because plenty of his individual keys have too big walls of haxes with the reboot possibly losing some. In cases where future keys actually lose plenty of abilities, I sometimes prefer making new profiles to leave it more organized and people don't have to copy paste only the abilities that remain since we can't just say "All previous plus". And never liked "All previous except" statements as they're prone to be verbose.

Let's not use Goku or HST as an example for Kratos please, they are their own beasts. They are multiple variants at times if not more. Kratos is just Kratos.

 

[KLOL506]

Anyway, I agree with OP. Makes no damn sense for the same exact character to be an entire page while having little change from his old self save for a lack of abilities that really don't mean much in the long run just because they're in a different pantheon now.

 

[KLOL506]

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @CrimsonStarFallen Your input here would be greatly appreciated.

 

[KLOL506]

TBH we could even have a sub tabber for stuff Kratos hasn't shown but likely would have?
At least for his inherent stuff

That's... not related to this thread, that'd be ability additions.

 

[Hellbeast]

My point is it could be valid rather then simply saying “Norse Kratos bad; port it to main profile”

 

[KLOL506]

My point is it could be valid rather then simply saying “Norse Kratos bad; port it to main profile”

It's more than that. He's the same goddamn character with the same exact history, same exact personality and characteristics with just way more development, love and soul poured into it, and not a variant from other media like HST characters. It'd be bad practice to add multiple variants for multiple Pantheons if it's just the same damn dude with no retcons at all.

 

[Planck69]

Honestly, I'm fine with keeping the profiles as is. It keeps any one profile from getting needlessly convoluted and seems like a nice dividing point for people who wish to compare both of his iterations (since there's definitely a lot of that). I dunno, maybe I'm just biased to this method of doing things since I already do that for Xianxia characters (who have stories multiple times longer than the HP series) but I find it easier on the eyes.

 

[Hellbeast]

Im not saying it’s the only argument; I’m saying it’s one that holds no weight
I’d also note say he has the same exact personality; he’s clearly developed a lot from the Greek games

my argument is less he’s a separate character but more that it’s just more aesthetically pleasing to read and more understanding for newer users.

Kratos is a massive profile as is and really it takes less effort to simply update Norse Krstos’ profile rather then merge the two with a whole new tabber and then just add them anyway

EDIT: just remembered; aren’t we also planning to split Krstos’ abilities into inherent and via equipment? That could risk further convoluting the page since we’re going to likely account for the optional stuff from 2018 (which I’m curious about anyway) as well as the many weapons Kratos gets throughout the series

I believe I suggested weapon profiles which could help but still between that and the huge additions coming up it might be best to leave as is

 

[KLOL506]

Honestly, I'm fine with keeping the profiles as is. It keeps any one profile from getting needlessly convoluted and seems like a nice dividing point for people who wish to compare both of his iterations (since there's definitely a lot of that). I dunno, maybe I'm just biased to this method of doing things since I already do that for Xianxia characters (who have stories multiple times longer than the HP series) but I find it easier on the eyes.

I'm honestly not sure how it would get convoluted. Kratos having 6 keys for each game is what I'd call convoluted instead of having it be based on his states.

Also if you wanna talk dividing point you could just as easily do it for Kratos's Demigod Self and his GoW/PoH self which have abilities of their own rights.

Not only that, Norse Kratos has nothing going for him save for the small number of abilities he retains... from LITERALLY HIS GREEK SELF AND ALL HIS PHYSICAL STATS THAT HE STRAIGHT UP RIPS OFF FROM HIS GREEK GOW SELF with some Norse feats sprinkled on top.

 

[KLOL506]

Im not saying it’s the only argument; I’m saying it’s one that holds no weight

Good, because that's not the main argument.

my argument is less he’s a separate character but more that it’s just more aesthetically pleasing to read and more understanding for newer users.

That's not... really a good argument to keep characters separate. Reason we keep HST characters as multiple profiles is just due to the sheer number of variants, spinoffs and transformations they have, Kratos has nowhere near the volume of that level. Why would you have an entirely different profile and then have it say he literally scales to his old self in majority of his statistics? That's borderline redundancy.

Kratos is a massive profile as is and really it takes less effort to simply update Norse Krstos’ profile rather then merge the two with a whole new tabber and then just add them anyway

Except, it's worse than that. Norse Kratos maintains majority of his stats by LITERALLY SCALING to his old Greek self.

EDIT: just remembered; aren’t we also planning to split Krstos’ abilities into inherent and via equipment? That could risk further convoluting the page since we’re going to likely account for the optional stuff from 2018 (which I’m curious about anyway) as well as the many weapons Kratos gets throughout the series

No. "Via equipment" thing is not gonna happen.

I believe I suggested weapon profiles which could help but still between that and the huge additions coming up it might be best to leave as is

Weapon profiles however, were agreed to be made.

Also the huge additions coming up are mostly additions of abilities that Kratos was supposed to have but never got, but that's derailing territory.

 

[Dust_Collector]

We have a tendancy to split characters into different profiles based on notable chunks of their history, Goku, several One Piece and Naruto characters, and the Link from Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask just to name a few all have different profiles despite being the same person. Don't see why Kratos would be any different.

 

[Hellbeast]

No. "Via equipment" thing is not gonna happen.

Y’all suggested it; I was there

Weapon profiles however, were agreed to be made.

Thought so

Also the huge additions coming up are mostly additions of abilities that Kratos was supposed to have but never got, but that's derailing territory.

I heard 2018 was included so my point is we’re merging the profiles only to add to them when we could just add to the one that exists

it streamlines the process immensely and stops one page being too cluttered under layers of tanners and sub tabbers

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I would never agree with something like that.

We have a tendancy to split characters into different profiles based on notable chunks of their history, Goku, several One Piece and Naruto characters, and the Link from Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask just to name a few all have different profiles despite being the same person. Don't see why Kratos would be any different.

I like everything under one roof for easy access.
Beauty is subjective, but utility isn't.
Not only is it easy to read everything about Kratos in one go, but it's also makes editing the damn thing easy.

 

[KLOL506]

Y’all suggested it; I was there

And then it was rejected down the line.

Thought so

I heard 2018 was included so my point is we’re merging the profiles only to add to them when we could just add to the one that exists

One that exists already rips out shit from the previous Greek profile. Why would you do that instead of just putting him in the same page so that it's considerably easier to use for characters to see what he scales to instead of jumping from profile to profile?

it streamlines the process immensely and stops one page being too cluttered under layers of tabbers and sub tabbers

I'd argue merging the profiles does the streamlining better than what we have at the moment.

 

[Planck69]

I'm honestly not sure how it would get convoluted. Kratos having 6 keys for each game is what I'd call convoluted instead of having it be based on his states.

When a page gets to a point of needing sub-tabbers within sub-tabbers, I consider it to be getting too cluttered.

Also if you wanna talk dividing point you could just as easily do it for Kratos's Demigod Self and his GoW/PoH self which have abilities of their own rights.

It's also a matter of chronology and major story shifts. You see this with Naruto, One Piece and Mori Jin with the split between the ends of their time-skips. You see this with Meng Hao with his change between mortality and immortality etc.

Not only that, Norse Kratos has nothing going for him save for the small number of abilities he retains... from LITERALLY HIS GREEK SELF AND ALL HIS PHYSICAL STATS THAT HE STRAIGHT UP RIPS OFF FROM HIS GREEK GOW SELF with some Norse feats sprinkled on top.

Based on convention, this isn't that new.