There is niether Old Kratos nor New Kratos, just Kratos.

[KLOL506]

We have a tendancy to split characters into different profiles based on notable chunks of their history, Goku, several One Piece and Naruto characters, and the Link from Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask just to name a few all have different profiles despite being the same person. Don't see why Kratos would be any different.

Because Norse Kratos has nothing impressive going for him save for whatever abilities he has retaining which are straight-up from his Greek era self and the fact that literally every part about his physical stats is from his Greek self, he isn't multiple iterations of the characters, and like I said, Goku and HST are entirely different beasts from what Kratos is. Kratos has been the same exact character and 2018 is just a direct sequel to the Greek stuff while only adding character development, which I doubt is a good-enough reason to keep separate profiles just because he visits new Pantheons every once in a while.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

"Too cluttered".
Seriously....lets not throw those words around.
The sandbox Klol made looks rad...nothing cluttered whatsoever. We have far more cluttered profiles which work good.

 

[KLOL506]

When a page gets to a point of needing sub-tabbers within sub-tabbers, I consider it to be getting too cluttered.

That's just a bad excuse in my eyes honestly. Dante is cluttered even more than Kratos, and yet there's no talk of him getting more profiles. Vergil and Nelo Angelo are entirely different personalities of the same character, yet he doesn't get a different page. Because they don't have to. They're the same exact dudes.

It's also a matter of chronology and major story shifts. You see this with Naruto, One Piece and Mori Jin with the split between the ends of their time-skips. You see this with Meng Hao with his change between mortality and immortality etc.

Because they have multiple transformations and variants to boot, and please, again, let's not use HST characters as an example, as I've reiterated they're entirely different beasts compared to Kratos. Sure, matter of chronology and major story shifts is a thing, but making different profiles just for visiting different Pantheons while still having the "All previous abilities of former self" is just plain redundancy, I'd argue it's worse to have visitors visit 10+ pages just to have a grasp on what tier they are because of the whole "All previous abilities" stuff.

Based on convention, this isn't that new.

And? That doesn't mean anything in the long run. At all.

 

[Hellbeast]

And then it was rejected down the line.

If you mean the sub tabbers I was there lol

One that exists already rips out shit from the previous Greek profile. Why would you do that instead of just putting him in the same page so that it's considerably easier to use for characters to see what he scales to instead of jumping from profile to profile?

Because a lot of is gone now
Obviously I agree a lot o what should be there is missing but this is the opposite of the problem with Norse’ profile.

too much of his stuff flat out isn’t on the page

also if you’re going to port it over why leave the p and a exactly the same and not accommodate for what’s already listed on the page?

I'd argue merging the profiles does the streamlining better than what we have at the moment.

Not really

we’re essentially burying everything under three or four layers of tabbers here with another guy suggesting a table of contents. That’s not streamlined by any metric and is actively pushing the limits of the page

are we going to add a third major tabber cluster for whenever the next game comes out in five years? At a certain point the page becomes too big to safely sustain

 

[Dust_Collector]

Goku and HST are entirely different beasts from what Kratos is. Kratos has been the same exact character and 2018 is just a direct sequel to the Greek stuff while only adding character development, which I doubt is a good-enough reason to keep separate profiles just because he visits new Pantheons every once in a while.

And are they entirely different beasts? Goku is the exact same character between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, various HST characters are the exact same characters just split between different periods of their series.

 

[KLOL506]

If you mean the sub tabbers I was there lol

I know you were XD, but eventually it was deemed to be too counter-productive.

Because a lot of is gone now

And?

Obviously I agree a lot o what should be there is missing but this is the opposite of the problem with Norse’ profile.

too much of his stuff flat out isn’t on the page

also if you’re going to port it over why leave the p and a exactly the same and not accommodate for what’s already listed on the page?

But we were gonna do that down the line when the big CRT comes up?

Not really

we’re essentially burying everything under three or four layers of tabbers here with another guy suggesting a table of contents. That’s not streamlined by any metric

Table of contents? Why would anybody do that?

Also if you wanna argue tabbers I'm just gonna point out that Dante literally exists (Using him because he's the only suitable candidate to be compared to Kratos).

 

[KLOL506]

And are they entirely different beasts? Goku is the exact same character between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, various HST characters are the exact same characters just split between different periods of their series.

In case you didn't realize, Goku has a shit-ton of variants and even his "canon" self has multiple entities.

There's anime Goku, there's Manga Goku, there's two variants of Super Goku that are both canon to the original DBZ manga but go on their own path, there's Toei Goku and a lot of others to go about.

Not to mention said HST characters have multiple transformations and arcs (And arc-related power-ups on top) to count for it. Kratos doesn't have that. Period.

Oh, Dante and Vergil also have massive timeskips and personality changes (Vergil straight up has his twisted Nelo Angelo self), yet they're just chilling fine in one profile.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

And are they entirely different beasts?

Different beasts as in flawed profiles... even they shouldn't have separate profiles.
But dealing with HST on this site is a pain.

 

[Hellbeast]

And are they entirely different beasts? Goku is the exact same character between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, various HST characters are the exact same characters just split between different periods of their series.

Hell arguably Comics has this too
New 52 Batman is essentially preserving the Post-Crisis continuity for his standalone stuff (obviously save Zero Year)

estreme case but there’s precedent

 

[Hellbeast]

I know you were XD, but eventually it was deemed to be too counter-productive.

SMH

But we were gonna do that down the line when the big CRT comes up?

So why do the merger now?
Why not finish the updates then make this thread?

again, streamlining and I’d argue it’s not even worth merging the profiles at this point.

Table of contents? Why would anybody do. that?

Ask Pariah

Also if you wanna argue tabbers I'm just gonna point out that Dante literally exists (Using him because he's the only suitable candidate to be compared to Kratos).

Tbh does he have three or four layers
Also DMC cringe keep up

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

So why do the merger now?
Why not finish the updates then make this thread?

To make the upgrades easier.

 

[KLOL506]

Hell arguably Comics has this too

Hohohoho let's not even talk about Marvel or DC here buddy, those are even worse than HST.

New 52 Batman is essentially preserving the Post-Crisis continuity for his standalone stuff (obviously save Zero Year)

But this Bats has an entirely different cycle of events, brand new suits, brand new story arcs and is basically just the other half of his Post-Crisis self possibly, IDK, I didn't go into comics after early Rebirth.

estreme case but there’s precedent

Extremes are more often than not, exceptions, not rules.

 

[KLOL506]

So why do the merger now?
Why not finish the updates then make this thread?

Literally what Gilver just said.

again, streamlining and I’d argue it’s not even worth merging the profiles at this point.

Once again, I'd argue merging the profiles and putting it under one leaf makes our work easier in the long run.

Ask Pariah

He wasn't actually being serious LMFAO

Tbh does he have three or four layers

Close. People were suggesting worse.

Also DMC cringe keep up

You're cringe SMH

 

[Hellbeast]

Hohohoho let's not even talk about Marvel or DC here buddy, those are even worse than HST.

Hence why I said an extreme
Example

But this Bats has an entirely different cycle of events, brand new suits, brand new story arcs and is basically just the other half of his Post-Crisis self possibly,

No
Everything new was either retconned into the five years his PC history exists within or takes place years after that

Rebirth arguably just furthered that by putting everything together

Extremes are more often than not, exceptions, not rules.
And what rule exactly justifies the approach proposed?

To make the upgrades easier.

is it tho?
Like it’s legit one more page covered by “scales to Past self”
Like what?

Literally what Gilver just said.




Once again, I'd argue merging the profiles and putting it under one leaf makes our work easier in the long run.

it doesn’t tho; legit all we need to do is port relevant stuff over and any power scaling can be handled in three or four words. Like this isn’t crazy

He wasn't actually being serious LMFAO

Literally nothing about Giver’s tone there suggested it was a joke
I heard a suggestion and pointed out it

Close. People were suggesting worse.

And tell me why did you choose not to?

You're cringe SMH

No u

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Literally nothing about Giver’s tone there suggested it was a joke
I heard a suggestion and pointed out

Oi oi oi what?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

is it tho?
Like it’s legit one more page covered by “scales to Past self”
Like what?

Like I said once before too.. Kratos as a whole will be revised... his innate stuff, magic, god magic, hope, some equipment shenanigans etc. If its already in one place, its all easier to apply.

Hell even now... we can eliminate the innate stuff which is replicated on norse key, since much of it is redundant via already being on greek keys.

 

[KLOL506]

No
Everything new was either retconned into the five years his PC history exists within or takes place years after that

Was mostly talking about the newer events he goes through after that.

Rebirth arguably just furthered that by putting everything together

Rebirth just ****** things up to ginormous levels.

Extremes are more often than not, exceptions, not rules.
And what rule exactly justifies the approach proposed?

I mean, ask yourself this, with a publishing history as long as DC Comics with so many variants you'd be tempted not to put them under the same profile.

is it tho?

Yes.

Like it’s legit one more page covered by “scales to Past self”
Like what?

I mean, why would you make an entirely different page only to have it say "Scales to past self". Makes no sense to begin with.

it doesn’t tho; legit all we need to do is port relevant stuff over and any power scaling can be handled in three or four words. Like this isn’t crazy

It pretty much does, we could just port the Norse profile over instead and fix the scaling then and there.

Literally nothing about Giver’s tone there suggested it was a joke
I heard a suggestion and pointed out it

I guess you should prolly scroll down more.

And tell me why did you choose not to?

Would you want Dante to have multiple profiles based on timeskips and personality changes he goes through despite being the same boring-ass character? And then would you want those abilities to be bullet-pointed even tho most of the clutter is gone thanks to the Demon Physiology page?

No u

NAY THEE, GOW and DMC are two sides of the same coin, cope, seethe, mald and dilate

 

[Hellbeast]

Oi oi oi what?

The thing about "our mutual friend"

Like I said once before too.. Kratos as a whole will be revised... his innate stuff, magic, god magic, hope, some equipment shenanigans etc. If its already in one place, its all easier to apply.

Hell even now... we can eliminate the innate stuff which is replicated on norse key, since much of it is redundant via already being on greek keys.

Then why not do that first and merge afterwards exactly?
And regardless most of his Resistances are redundant because he has instances of them in the Norse games (Poison Manipulation)

Was mostly talking about the newer events he goes through after that.

Also I'll get to @KLOL in a bit because my quotes are ****** rn

 

[TheRustyOne]

Keeping the profiles separate is something we can and is allowed to do for any reason. Unless you people want to make a CRT to ban split profiles, there is nothing wrong with this and trying to act like Kratos is special or split profiles are special is absurd and arrogant.

People have mentioned something like DB Goku and DBZ Goku, which fits very well with Kratos. Ignoring Super and the likes, the Dragon Ball manga is just a manga. With the anime separating the two between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, english manga being separated for awhile for marketing purposes.

Something similar to Naruto, but the Shippuden name doesn't seem to have taken off like Z did. Trying to say the Naruto/Dragon Ball is different is laughable, since the difference is made up by fans or some corporation. Kratos' profile should be determined by what the majority thinks, unless someone can point me to a rule about split profiles.

Site rules: "When there are multiple versions of a character that are distinct enough to be split into several profiles, whether it is due to the length and complexity of the page or versions from different mediums, then the multiple pages that are created as a result of this have to be linked by a tabber template at the top of the page."

Can someone explain to me how Kratos in Greek and Kratos in Norse aren't distinct enough to be split?

Note: I know that the above doesn't say they have to be split, this is a vote on what the majority thinks after all. It's alright to disagree and merge them if you all want too.

 

[Bobsican]

I'm just going to remind that splitting profiles out of "organization purposes" is optional, so it all comes down to what most agree on, as there's simply no standards on this per-say. One can have a page for several eras as their own page, or compress all of them within a single page.

However, if the organization would be better by merging the page, given that the "newer" one simply has next to nothing to stand on its own beyond the previous one, then it stands to reason that merging the pages would be better organization for our purposes, and thus be given priority.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Welp Dante you are on chopping block next. And Pariah is gonna mince meat you.

"When there are multiple versions of a character that are distinct enough to be split into several profiles,

Definition of distinct and how it applies to Kratos can get pretty subjective....but objectively speaking its just loss of his god abilities and hope.. everything else is same.

So not a good reason.

whether it is due to the length and complexity of the page or versions from different medium

Its not at all complex.. at all... dude look at the sandbox...its nice and dandy. It makes navigation of Kratos as whole goddamn easy.

Different medium versions doesn't even apply here.

then the multiple pages that are created as a result of this have to be linked by a tabber template at the top of the page."

Keys here make it much more user-friendly.

 

[Hellbeast]

It has nothing to stand on it's own because it's underwritten tho, not because the "reboot" adds nothing of note

 

[KLOL506]

Keeping the profiles separate is something we can and is allowed to do for any reason. Unless you people want to make a CRT to ban split profiles, there is nothing wrong with this and trying to act like Kratos is special or split profiles are special is absurd and arrogant.

Nobody ever said Kratos was special or that split profiles are special, nor did anyone here ask for banning split profiles.

People have mentioned something like DB Goku and DBZ Goku, which fits very well with Kratos. Ignoring Super and the likes, the Dragon Ball manga is just a manga. With the anime separating the two between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, english manga being separated for awhile for marketing purposes.

No, it doesn't fit with Kratos at all, because there is no separate Kratos. He's the one and the same, only that he has less abilities than before because Zeus trashed his equipment, and 2018 has had a lot of character development put into him as a result of his Greek atrocities.

Site rules: "When there are multiple versions of a character that are distinct enough to be split into several profiles, whether it is due to the length and complexity of the page or versions from different mediums, then the multiple pages that are created as a result of this have to be linked by a tabber template at the top of the page."

Can someone explain to me how Kratos in Greek and Kratos in Norse aren't distinct enough to be split?

Read above, Kratos simply going to another pantheon is remotely not a qualifier for being a distinction to split. Norse Kratos is the same exact Kratos in the Greek GOW games, just with less abilities minus his innate Demigod shit and innate GOW shit which mostly carried on into Norse.

 

[KLOL506]

It has nothing to stand on it's own because it's underwritten tho, not because the "reboot" adds nothing of note

It's underwritten because there's really not much to write about it in the first place. The meaningful things I mean.

The reboot definitely has lots of things to add like equipment like weapon handles, talismans and enchantments but that's it. Everything else is straight up a "All previous" or "Scales to" business coming from the old Greek games.

 

[Hellbeast]

Nah defo new stuff
Passive Space Manip comes to mind and we're completely ignoring stuff like the Gauntlet of Ages too. He also might have passive Power Null but I need to wait for Ragnarok

 

[KLOL506]

Nah defo new stuff
Passive Space Manip comes to mind and we're completely ignoring stuff like the Gauntlet of Ages too. He also might have passive Power Null but I need to wait for Ragnarok

That's... covered under the talismans, enchantments and handles argument tho.

Not like it matters. We'll add 'em in eventually.

 

[KLOL506]

@DemonGodMitchAubin @UchihaSlayer96 Your opinions on this would also be useful.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well considering Greek Kratos' Profile has only 3 Keys now and is significantly less cluttered, I see no harm in combining the two profiles

 

[Theglassman12]

This is fine, given the far less cluttered state greek kratos is now.

 

[sanicspood]

"(Killed Ares. Afterwards, killed Thanatos, who is at least as strong as Ares. Has the powers of a God of War and Death. Had his strength complimented by Atlas and pushed his fingers back. Managed to match Zeus, although he needed the Blade of Olympus to do so. Killed Poseidon and Helios, and Hades, who is stronger than Helios. Later fought on par with Zeus. Easily physically overpowered and killed Cronos, who is confirmed to be only slightly weaker than Atlas)"

scans???

 

[KLOL506]

"(Killed Ares. Afterwards, killed Thanatos, who is at least as strong as Ares. Has the powers of a God of War and Death. Had his strength complimented by Atlas and pushed his fingers back. Managed to match Zeus, although he needed the Blade of Olympus to do so. Killed Poseidon and Helios, and Hades, who is stronger than Helios. Later fought on par with Zeus. Easily physically overpowered and killed Cronos, who is confirmed to be only slightly weaker than Atlas)"

scans???

Bruh. Are you serious right now?

Did you literally not read the blog for the tiers? Or watched any of the boss fights (Or even a slight bit of the games)? Or clicked on the profiles linked?

 

[sanicspood]

Bruh. Are you serious right now?

Did you literally not read the blog for the tiers? Or watched any of the boss fights (Or even a slight bit of the games)? Or clicked on the profiles linked?

the blog should be on the kratos profile

no, why would you assume the average vsbw viewer plays gow

fair enough but like the description of him actually scaling to these characters have no scans, which was my point

 

[KLOL506]

the blog should be on the kratos profile

Bruh. It's there. Scroll down.

no, why would you assume the average vsbw viewer plays gow

Clearly you haven't seen the shitshow that went on when these guys got upgraded to Tier 3 and 2.

fair enough but like the description of him actually scaling to these characters have no scans

The scans are on the profiles of these characters bro.

 

[sanicspood]

Bruh. It's there. Scroll down.

man i must be blind asf cuz i do not see it

Clearly you haven't seen the shitshow that went on when these guys got upgraded to Tier 3 and 2.

nope

The scans are on the profiles of these characters bro.

yea but shouldn't the scans for kratos scaling logically be on kratos' profile? like why do i have to go on another persons page for scaling about kratos

 

[KLOL506]

yea but shouldn't the scans for kratos scaling logically be on kratos' profile? like why do i have to go on another persons page for scaling about kratos

Because they are the main instigators of Kratos's misery?

 

[sanicspood]

Because they are the main instigators of Kratos's misery?

the average vsbw user dont know that mf

 

[KLOL506]

the average vsbw user dont know that mf

Fine, we can fix that

Also to say they don't know the shitshow that went down with the infamous GOW upgrades is... farfetched to say the least.

 

[KLOL506]

the average vsbw user dont know that mf

Also only the boss fights and relevant video game links need to be added really, the scaling chain is explained well in the blog (Like Hades being stronger than Helios because duh, Olympian >>> Titans >>> Primordial and all that lore stuff), which is linked to pretty much every single God of War profile anyway.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@DemonGodMitchAubin @UchihaSlayer96 Your opinions on this would also be useful.

I already saw the new state of the profile, and I think it looks great. Given the clean-ups, organization, and improvements you've made, I don't really see a need for separation.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Agree:- Klol, Glass, DMAubin, USlayer, KTempest, Elizhaa , Oliver, Mister, Shuradou, DarkSmash, WGecko, Bern, MQuake, Bob, Lightning, RedReaper.

Disgaree:- DDM, Planck, , Rusty(?), HBeast, Dust.

Neutral:- Rusty(?)

Vote tally, remind me if I miss or misplace someone.