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I hope you guys remember Nightmare, the gelatinous demon that you fight in DMC1 and 5 and the familiar to Vergil's human side, V.
The visions of v manga gives a bit of interesting context to nightmare's power.
Nightmare was meant to be an incarnation of destruction.
When mundus created nightmare, he chose to restrict his power by imposing a seal on him, as otherwise he was strong enough to lay waste to the demon world.
Japanese version:
translation by Qliphoth:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-w...destruction-devil-may-cry.114697/post-3676662
Its power could destroy the Demon World.
The Demon Emperor feared it.
So much so he bounded and restrained the very power he sought.
It was created as a weapon without a will.
That being...
It obeys its lord's commands.
The first game guide had previously stated this about nightmare:
正直、 俺もこの粘つく闇のような化け物を、悪魔の一種として考えていいのか判断に迷うところだ 。
魔帝が心血をそそいで完成させた魔界の生物兵器で、その思考回路も能力も、すべては敵対者を殺しつく、すことだけを目的として創られている。
だが、その結果、創造者でさえ予想もつかなかった悪な殺機械ができ上がったらしく、無制限に力を解放させると魔界の安定さえ担るがしかねない危険な存在になつちまつた。
そこで、マヌケな魔帝は大あわてで、こいつを配置した地点にはよ走を抑えるための拘束具──紋章とリンクして力場を発生させる拘束文様をセットで設置する八メになったワケだ。
たしかに非拘束状態のナイトメアの力は凄まじく、ゲル状の肉体はあらゆる攻撃を受けつけない。
さらに、その内部に亜空間とも言うべき異世界を生成して、ここに引きすりこんだ相手の記憶力ら生み出した魔物の"影"をけしかける、まさに悪夢めいた能力を発揮してくる。
だかりと言って拘束文様を発動させれば楽勝ってわけでもなく、防衛本能が高まって硬質をした巨体から、さながら軍事兵器のように多彩な攻撃を繰り出してきやがる。こいつが暴走して魔界が滅びちまえばいいのにって、ホントに思うぜ!
the following translation is from a site translator:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-3614072
"To be honest, I'm at a loss in judging whether I should consider this sticky dark monster as a kind of demon.
It is a biological weapon of the Demon World that the Demon Emperor completed with all his heart and soul, its thought circuits and ability are all created solely for the purpose of killing an adversary.
However, as a result, it seems that an evil killing machine that even the creator did not anticipate was created, becoming a dangerous existence that could threaten the stability of the Demon World if its powers were to be released indefinitely.
So, the Demon Emperor was in a big hurry and at the moment when this guy was arranged, a restraining tool was placed to suppress its movement──that was the reason why a set of restraint patterns that generate a forcefield by linking with eight emblems was set.
The true power of the unrestrained Nightmare is dreadful, and its gel-like body makes it impervious to all attacks.
In addition, it creates a different world inside it which can be called a subspace, exerting a true nightmare ability to cast the "shadow" of the demon that was created from the memory of the opponent who was pulled in it.
If you could call it a restraint pattern, it wasn't an easy victory and its defense instinct increases and its body hardens, attacking with a variety of attacks like a military weapon. I wish this guy would run off and have the Demon World perish!"
Consistently, it is being described by Dante (the guide is in universe from his perspective, giving out lore for the demons) that nightmare has the literal power to destroy the demon world, should it be released from its seal.
This level of power is rather consistent with what v says of its abilities after he acquires an unsealed nightmare.
V states that with nightmare he could oppose urizen, only being limited by the power in his own body to use nightmare properly. (This was pre fruit urizen, and he had not gained the power that let him beat dante yet).
Note: He means the Urizen he saw last time, meaning the one that hadn't summoned the Qliphoth yet
Finally, mundus was willing to use nightmare as a weapon in combat:
Nightmare:
ドロドロの身体の中にガイコツが浮いてい るという異様な姿のエネミー。このデザイン は、昔にヒットした「スライム」というオモチャ がモチーフになっている。
当初は「スライム状のエネミーで、光を向 けられると硬い殻をまとって姿を現す」とい う設定しかなかった。しかし、制作段階で、 ダンテを飲み込んで悪夢の空間へと飛ばし たり、氷結レーザーを発射したりするなど、 “ナイトメア”の名前にふさわしい攻撃が次々 と生まれていった。
ちなみに、ダンテの武器“ナイトメア”の名 には、試作型を意味する“3”がついている が、この巨大なエネミー“ナイトメア”が、そ の完成形の“a”である。魔帝ムンドゥスが このナイトメアを腕にはめて使うこともあるの かもしれない。
A bizarre-looking Enemy with a skull floating inside its gooey body. This design was inspired by the old hit toy "Slime".
Initially, the only explanation for this design was that it was a slime-shaped Enemy that would emerge in a hard shell when the light was directed at it. However, during the production stage, Dante was able to create a series of attacks worthy of the name "Nightmare", such as swallowing Dante and sending him flying into a nightmare space or firing freezing lasers.
Dante's weapon, the "Beta" is the name of his "Nightmare" weapon, has a "3" for "prototype", which is a huge "Nightmare". This is the "a" in its finished form. Mundus might wear this nightmare on his arm.
As the scan above says, Mundus also used Nightmare in the same manner Dante uses nightmare beta in the game, a weapon, something he wouldn't use if its power was below what he expected.
So, its established that Nightmare is a very powerful demon to the point Mundus had to restraint it and we know this isn't the first time Mundus ***** things up and creates something so dangerous (the beastheads are the biggest example).
One might ask, if nightmare is this powerful, why doesn't it nuke the demon world or human world in dmc 1?
The answer is that it has no free will. Its explicitly under mundus' orders for the entire game, and he has no intent to destroy either universe.
Likewise, V has no intent to destroy either realm in dmc v, and its output is limited by v directly.
The demon world is currently accepted as a full universe in size, and recently a crt (which was accepted) was made showing the size of it being infinite:
DMC re-scaling of the OG Demon King | VS Battles Wiki Forum
Destroying an infinite sized universe would high 3-A.
Furthermore, The demon world as a construct is currently treated as a fourth dimensional construct due to demonic world energy:
User blog:Mister6ame6/Demon World Energy being a 4D structure | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom
However, as there is no mention of time being affected here, no mention that nightmare would do something comparable to that of the god tiers and with the scans we only get the basic interpretation of destruction of physical/material stuff, id propose low 2-c as “possibly”.
With all of this my proposal is simple, upgrade Nightmare and those who scale to it (only Dante due to beating an unsealed nightmare, and Nelo Angelo who scales to that dante) to "High 3-a, possibly low 2-C"
The visions of v manga gives a bit of interesting context to nightmare's power.
Nightmare was meant to be an incarnation of destruction.
When mundus created nightmare, he chose to restrict his power by imposing a seal on him, as otherwise he was strong enough to lay waste to the demon world.
Japanese version:
translation by Qliphoth:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-w...destruction-devil-may-cry.114697/post-3676662
Its power could destroy the Demon World.
The Demon Emperor feared it.
So much so he bounded and restrained the very power he sought.
It was created as a weapon without a will.
That being...
It obeys its lord's commands.
The first game guide had previously stated this about nightmare:
正直、 俺もこの粘つく闇のような化け物を、悪魔の一種として考えていいのか判断に迷うところだ 。
魔帝が心血をそそいで完成させた魔界の生物兵器で、その思考回路も能力も、すべては敵対者を殺しつく、すことだけを目的として創られている。
だが、その結果、創造者でさえ予想もつかなかった悪な殺機械ができ上がったらしく、無制限に力を解放させると魔界の安定さえ担るがしかねない危険な存在になつちまつた。
そこで、マヌケな魔帝は大あわてで、こいつを配置した地点にはよ走を抑えるための拘束具──紋章とリンクして力場を発生させる拘束文様をセットで設置する八メになったワケだ。
たしかに非拘束状態のナイトメアの力は凄まじく、ゲル状の肉体はあらゆる攻撃を受けつけない。
さらに、その内部に亜空間とも言うべき異世界を生成して、ここに引きすりこんだ相手の記憶力ら生み出した魔物の"影"をけしかける、まさに悪夢めいた能力を発揮してくる。
だかりと言って拘束文様を発動させれば楽勝ってわけでもなく、防衛本能が高まって硬質をした巨体から、さながら軍事兵器のように多彩な攻撃を繰り出してきやがる。こいつが暴走して魔界が滅びちまえばいいのにって、ホントに思うぜ!
the following translation is from a site translator:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-3614072
"To be honest, I'm at a loss in judging whether I should consider this sticky dark monster as a kind of demon.
It is a biological weapon of the Demon World that the Demon Emperor completed with all his heart and soul, its thought circuits and ability are all created solely for the purpose of killing an adversary.
However, as a result, it seems that an evil killing machine that even the creator did not anticipate was created, becoming a dangerous existence that could threaten the stability of the Demon World if its powers were to be released indefinitely.
So, the Demon Emperor was in a big hurry and at the moment when this guy was arranged, a restraining tool was placed to suppress its movement──that was the reason why a set of restraint patterns that generate a forcefield by linking with eight emblems was set.
The true power of the unrestrained Nightmare is dreadful, and its gel-like body makes it impervious to all attacks.
In addition, it creates a different world inside it which can be called a subspace, exerting a true nightmare ability to cast the "shadow" of the demon that was created from the memory of the opponent who was pulled in it.
If you could call it a restraint pattern, it wasn't an easy victory and its defense instinct increases and its body hardens, attacking with a variety of attacks like a military weapon. I wish this guy would run off and have the Demon World perish!"
Consistently, it is being described by Dante (the guide is in universe from his perspective, giving out lore for the demons) that nightmare has the literal power to destroy the demon world, should it be released from its seal.
V states that with nightmare he could oppose urizen, only being limited by the power in his own body to use nightmare properly. (This was pre fruit urizen, and he had not gained the power that let him beat dante yet).
Note: He means the Urizen he saw last time, meaning the one that hadn't summoned the Qliphoth yet
Finally, mundus was willing to use nightmare as a weapon in combat:
Nightmare:
ドロドロの身体の中にガイコツが浮いてい るという異様な姿のエネミー。このデザイン は、昔にヒットした「スライム」というオモチャ がモチーフになっている。
当初は「スライム状のエネミーで、光を向 けられると硬い殻をまとって姿を現す」とい う設定しかなかった。しかし、制作段階で、 ダンテを飲み込んで悪夢の空間へと飛ばし たり、氷結レーザーを発射したりするなど、 “ナイトメア”の名前にふさわしい攻撃が次々 と生まれていった。
ちなみに、ダンテの武器“ナイトメア”の名 には、試作型を意味する“3”がついている が、この巨大なエネミー“ナイトメア”が、そ の完成形の“a”である。魔帝ムンドゥスが このナイトメアを腕にはめて使うこともあるの かもしれない。
A bizarre-looking Enemy with a skull floating inside its gooey body. This design was inspired by the old hit toy "Slime".
Initially, the only explanation for this design was that it was a slime-shaped Enemy that would emerge in a hard shell when the light was directed at it. However, during the production stage, Dante was able to create a series of attacks worthy of the name "Nightmare", such as swallowing Dante and sending him flying into a nightmare space or firing freezing lasers.
Dante's weapon, the "Beta" is the name of his "Nightmare" weapon, has a "3" for "prototype", which is a huge "Nightmare". This is the "a" in its finished form. Mundus might wear this nightmare on his arm.
As the scan above says, Mundus also used Nightmare in the same manner Dante uses nightmare beta in the game, a weapon, something he wouldn't use if its power was below what he expected.
So, its established that Nightmare is a very powerful demon to the point Mundus had to restraint it and we know this isn't the first time Mundus ***** things up and creates something so dangerous (the beastheads are the biggest example).
One might ask, if nightmare is this powerful, why doesn't it nuke the demon world or human world in dmc 1?
The answer is that it has no free will. Its explicitly under mundus' orders for the entire game, and he has no intent to destroy either universe.
Likewise, V has no intent to destroy either realm in dmc v, and its output is limited by v directly.
The demon world is currently accepted as a full universe in size, and recently a crt (which was accepted) was made showing the size of it being infinite:
DMC re-scaling of the OG Demon King | VS Battles Wiki Forum
Destroying an infinite sized universe would high 3-A.
Furthermore, The demon world as a construct is currently treated as a fourth dimensional construct due to demonic world energy:
User blog:Mister6ame6/Demon World Energy being a 4D structure | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom
However, as there is no mention of time being affected here, no mention that nightmare would do something comparable to that of the god tiers and with the scans we only get the basic interpretation of destruction of physical/material stuff, id propose low 2-c as “possibly”.
With all of this my proposal is simple, upgrade Nightmare and those who scale to it (only Dante due to beating an unsealed nightmare, and Nelo Angelo who scales to that dante) to "High 3-a, possibly low 2-C"
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