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"The wish of ruin. Nightmare given form, the weapon of mass destruction" (Devil May Cry)

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Thehunter077 said:
Does this feats count as overtime? Not saying Nightmare aren't touching with god tier but if its overtime still count?
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Its more like single shot deal... High3A is possible with just limited speed.

cuz if we take it as overtime and we know that there is a definive end to the destruction process, we would have to end up giving infinite speed along with High3A.👀
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
Why it needs to be overtime for that? Wouldnt be able to destroy something infinite with your attack instantly count as such?
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I can see your point, its intuitive to think that way, but Wiki doesn't consider that since fiction makes the same distinction.
I mean we could give any Low2C universe buster immeasurable speed since there attack shockwaves and such have to travel the entire timeline to destroy it. Hell Zeno erasing IZ as immeasurable was once discussed on a thread on wiki.
And see how that went.
 
Cloozuma said:
GER is above baseline infinite, gl with that
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DMC1 Dante and Nelo Angelo already scale above Nightmare, since they mention that only Nelo Angelo was a tough opponents for Dante in DMC1, while they also having DT and Majin forms which stomp opponents comparable to their previous forms and also not couting to the big scaling chain of the God Tiers, which include some stomp and blitz left and right, and also Nightmare, DMC1 Dante and Nelo Angelo being mere weaklings for than
 
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ignore the infinite speed shenanigans.

It doesn't make sense at all, given that nightmare is even described as "sluggish" in its movement, and is usually stationary.

As for the size of the demon world, Efite and v explain pretty well here why infinite applies to the demon world's size here, in the previously posted crt in the op:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/dmc-re-scaling-of-the-og-demon-king.114324/post-3664367

so for timeframe, all translations point toward it being either a rather short timeframe, or in one go:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-3677320
it is even stated mundus went overboard on nightmare's power, with its original purpose being a weapon of mass destruction

A low ball for a timeframe is the following:
Screenshot_20210329-013238.png


Nico noted that the Order of the Sword (They pretty much had records on all demons, enough to construct an artificial demon world even) had no record of Nightmare, implying that Mundus had probably created it recently and specifically to defeat Dante.

If it was basically made to kill Dante.... then it cannot have time frame more than his Age which was 28/29 in dmc 1
And considering when Temen-ni-gru happened was when mundus learnt fully of Dante's capabilities
It narrows it down to 10yrs at max for nightmare's lifespan. Mundus took immediate action against given its power, so its unlikely the timeframe supersedes its current lifespan.
 
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What are the conclusions here, and who has agreed to what?
 
Ok so my few issues here:

1. From japanese to portugese to english is a bad move when you're arguing for universal stats. So just remove that 1st scan.

2. Don't use MTL for translations when it's a big case like this, this is a type of scenario where 1 word can change the tier completely. And going by the translated description from Qlipoth in the OP that is "threaten the stability", something far from total annihilation. Which makes me wonder if the 2nd translation (the manga) is to be trusted as much as the 2 statements aren't saying the same thing.

3. Mundus using Nightmare to fight Dante doesn't mean Nightmare is as powerful, cus we do not say Dante's weapons are 2-C, if we did even DMC3 Dante would be 2-C via using these weapons.

4. Fighting Urizen is fair, but as you said this is urizen before the qlipoth and at this point was Urizen really as strong as Dante? To this point all Urizen has done is get separated from V, and Vergil at the time wasn't 2-C. So why would Urizen be?
 
Sounds like what happened with Mondaiji there in a way. Except it went from something in Vietnamese to Chinese to English...which is honestly dumb considering the series was originally in Japanese...

Off-topic aside~
 
I think there's a misunderstanding I didn't translate it from Japanese then to Portuguese I provided both the English and Portuguese translations to show they say the same thing, which matches with the Japanese translation which was then posted later and translated by qliphoth For your second point I would agree but I just added them for further consistency. Regarding the stability statement, the manga was released after the guidebook and every translation thus far insinuates literal power to destroy the demon world.



If you want I can get a second translation for the guidebook scan



The point with the weapon for Mundus was not to show him being equal to him, but rather that he is impressive in power enough for Mundus to consider using him as a weapon. The Dante comparison really doesn't work, at least for three as you mentioned. Urizen at that point was still considered immensely impressive, but he's more so just supporting evidence and not really the main part of the argument. Otherwise we would have 2-c nightmare, which raises a lot of questions
 
further on for the guidebook, Atwiki had this translation:
が高まり、ミサイルやビームと言った兵器攻撃を扱う他、体の一部を変形させて槍やブーメランに変えて攻撃する事もある。なお、ダンテは「正直こいつが暴走して魔界自体が滅んじまえば良いんだけどな」と、上記攻略本にてコメントしている。
Translation: "Nightmare It is a living weapon and a senior devil created by the Emperor with the intention of invading the human world. However, because it was made for the purpose of destruction only, it was difficult to control and even the magic world could be destroyed, and Mundus who felt impatient with this decided to use it only within the boundary of the crest that would be a restraining garment. In the shape of a slime with a lot of bones floating, you take your opponent into your body and fly to the nightmare space. In order to give damage, it is necessary to activate the surrounding barrier device and make the main body appear. However, even if the main body appears, the defense instinct increases, handling weapon attacks such as missiles and beams, and transforming parts of the body into spears and boomerangs to attack. In addition, Dante commented in the above strategy book, “Honestly it would be nice if the demon runs away and the demon world itself is destroyed.”
 
Qliphoth_Bacikal said:
Sounds like what happened with Mondaiji there in a way. Except it went from something in Vietnamese to Chinese to English...which is honestly dumb considering the series was originally in Japanese...
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Which is why they got yeeted, cus getting 2-A off of double translated stuff is hard.

Cyberblader90 said:
I think there's a misunderstanding I didn't translate it from Japanese then to Portuguese I provided both the English and Portuguese translations to show they say the same thing
Click to expand...
I never said you did, i just said "remove the portugese" cus it's literally useless in there. No one is going to believe its validity due to it having already been translated from japanese to portugese before and now to english. So just yeet that part entirely.

Cyberblader90 said:
For your second point I would agree but I just added them for further consistency.
Click to expand...
Ok but just don't, remove them too. It makes the OP needlessly long with literally useless info, come on my profile and tell me "dawg you lied to me" if a single soul on this thread or any thread says "yo i don't trust our multilingual members bring me some MTL". No one trusts MTL more than multilingual, so using worse translations to support better translations doesn't make sense. Remove them to make the OP look less full of useless info and easier to read through.

Cyberblader90 said:
Regarding the stability statement, the manga was released after the guidebook and every translation thus far insinuates literal power to destroy the demon world.
Click to expand...
Every translation sure, but out of those only 2 matter. The 2 translated by Qlipoth.

Cyberblader90 said:
The Dante comparison really doesn't work, at least for three as you mentioned
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May i ask why? It's weapon for weapon, however we attribute E&I capabilities to Dante being the user not the weapons themselves.

Cyberblader90 said:
Urizen at that point was still considered immensely impressive, but he's more so just supporting evidence and not really the main part of the argument.
Click to expand...
Immensely impressive by what standards? And if we don't know how strong urizen was we can't really use it for supporting either.

On your last comment, who made that translation? And what do you mean "dante commented in the strategy book"?
 
I have removed the Portuguese and machine translations.
Urizen has been temporarily crossed out till Tony responds regarding that topic
 
Firephoenixearl said:
3. Mundus using Nightmare to fight Dante doesn't mean Nightmare is as powerful, cus we do not say Dante's weapons are 2-C, if we did even DMC3 Dante would be 2-C via using these weapons.

4. Fighting Urizen is fair, but as you said this is urizen before the qlipoth and at this point was Urizen really as strong as Dante? To this point all Urizen has done is get separated from V, and Vergil at the time wasn't 2-C. So why would Urizen be?
Click to expand...
3. What exactly are you talking about? Can you explain? Because Mundus never uses nightmare to fight Dante

4. What do you mean? We never said Urizen is 2C nor did we say he can defeat Dante. (and that's why I wanted it instead of pre-fruit Urizen because it gets confusing)
 
for your two other points
Every translation sure, but out of those only 2 matter. The 2 translated by Qlipoth.
Click to expand...

Well, the guide was released years before the manga. The manga is both more recent, and a higher level of canon, which can retcon. Also given that the same guide that mentions the demon world perishing, its getting destroyed by nightmare.

May i ask why? It's weapon for weapon, however we attribute E&I capabilities to Dante being the user not the weapons themselves.
Click to expand...

You mentioned dmc 3. Dante doesnt have any tier 3/2 weapons in 3. He doesnt get a weapon on that level till he used the sword of sparda to amp himself in 1.

My point with Mundus is that nightmare is viable as a weapon for usage. Mundus throws away beings that dont live up to his expectations, such as griffon. And he was already alarmed enough by nightmares' power to deciding to power null it/seal it
 
sure

Both the dmc v manga and dmc guidebook states nightmare has the power to destroy the demon world, which is currently accepted as a universe, and recently a crt upgrading it to be infinite in size was accepted as well.

As such, high 3-a nightmare.

"low 2-c" is included as "possibly", due to the current accepted stance of the demon world being a 4th dimensional construct, but its contenious
 
almost forgot

On your last comment, who made that translation? And what do you mean "dante commented in the strategy book"?
Click to expand...

The strategy comment is referring to dante giving lore in the guide book.

The translation is from Atwiki, which had a summary on the guide, along side text from it
 
Cyberblader90 said:
The manga is both more recent, and a higher level of canon, which can retcon.
Click to expand...
Fair, my point was mostly about the manga using "destroy the world" non literally but rather with the same meaning as "destroy the stability of the world". But eh, a possibly on the H3-A would be fair.

Cyberblader90 said:
You mentioned dmc 3. Dante doesnt have any tier 3/2 weapons in 3. He doesnt get a weapon on that level till he used the sword of sparda to amp himself in 1.
Click to expand...
So E&I are not tier 2? Are you saying even in DMC5 E&I aren't tier 2? Cus he uses the same weapons he did in DMC3, in DMC5. You see my issue with the "he considered the weapon viable for use", it's not necessarily always the weapon, but the user, as is the case with Dante and him amping his stuff with Demon Energy.

But anyway skipping all of this "Possibly High 3-A" is fine by me, however Low 2-C is just not the case. Nothing regarding Nightmare even remotely implies destroying the entire timeline and "Demon energy is 4D" to this day remains arguably the stupidest thing to be accepted for DMC, which i will downgrade if i ever find the energy for it.
 
oh ebony and ivory. Im not sure they work specifically. He amps them directly. Their ammunition is literally just his demonic energy. They just scale to however strong he is at the time. Mundus though doesnt have much evidence for amping nightmare (since that defeats the purpose of nerfing it in the first place)

fair on the low 2-c thing since it was always at best possibly
 
Cyberblader90 said:
sure

Both the dmc v manga and dmc guidebook states nightmare has the power to destroy the demon world, which is currently accepted as a universe, and recently a crt upgrading it to be infinite in size was accepted as well.

As such, high 3-a nightmare.

"low 2-c" is included as "possibly", due to the current accepted stance of the demon world being a 4th dimensional construct, but its contenious
Click to expand...
@TISSG7Redgrave @Matthew_Schroeder @Theglassman12 @DarkGrath @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus

What do you think about this?
 
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