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The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

If it means getting back a chance to Low 2-C, I won't have any problems with it. So when will the thread get made and what else needs to be listed to justify Belial's scaling to the bomb.
 
Probably after I finish compiling all the stuff in the series. I have finished compiling important statements from Showa Era to Ultra Galaxy Era. So now I only have Pre-Crisis Impact Era, Post-Crisis Impact Era, and the Reiwa Era statements to compile.

Actually isn’t your thread with King still open? Couldn't we just bump the thread and ask if Belial could scale for surviving it while being weakened?
 
I kinda feel like the question can be tackled again in a new thread where I also add a few more things like the multiverse map and how the bomb affected the whole of Side Space Universe which is its entire timeline.
 
Huh well I already posted there. Should I delete it for now? I don’t think anybody saw it yet.
 
Yeah, my bad for not responding quickly enough. If you want to delete it go ahead.
 
Ehh now that I think about it I don’t really want to retype everything and it’s just a scaling question about a character surviving a bomb so I don’t think it’ll be something that warrants an entire new thread. If the bomb’s tier gets changed due to another revision we could always just change the tier later on. So I guess I’ll keep it for now.

Actually do you think it’s better to make a separate thread on the question and answers board? Cause this might be more of a general question that affects other verses.
 
I’ll get on to that sometime next week. I’ll be doing everything in order. So Pre-Crisis Impact (Ginga, Victory, X, and Orb) comes first.
 
Depending how the posts are responded to, I might actually need to create a new thread with how bulky my own input on the new info already is. I can just transfer everything you said to the main post afterwards.
 
Ant's response says there isn't any problem with the new scaling, which you should be able to see already.

Another thing I found while scouring the series, Kei said these:

"All across the universe, there are fragments of a soul. So when I close my eyes, I can communicate with the god who inhabits those spaces."

Fragments of a soul = Childhood Radiation, further emphasizing the range of this particular case.

God who inhabit those spaces could at a glance refer to King, but given the context as revealed in episode 11, Kei is most likely talking about Belial.

By adding that, the revelation of episodes 11 and 12 about its size and Sui's note of it being not quite a part of this universe, I am led to believe Belial at his state could create a pocket dimension about the size of a universe. Whether it was its own space-time or not is up in the air still, but this could possibly justify his ridiculously high 3-A rating.
 
Yeah he said there wasn’t any problems but we should still get more staff input.

Wait around what time and in what episode did K say all this? I want to see for myself what the context is.
 
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Yeah, that'd be best.

It happened in episode 4, around the 9:15 mark. Of course by now I have become unsure again.
 
Huh from the context it does seem like he was talking about Belial. He said he was giving a report and he does it by closing his eyes.

Though I don’t think this means Belial‘s pocket dimension is universal in size. Also in the chinese subs he didn’t say around the universe he said at a certain place in the universe he scattered fragments of the heart. The Japanese words in that scene was Toaru basho ni (At a certain place) so in this case the chinese subs seems to make more sense.
 
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That much I've gotten. Might keep repeating that just to see how much branched off between the two subs.

In any case, still range feat for Kei's telepathy. Possibly a limited version since it seems to be a direct connection to Belial rather than a free call.
 
Yeah Kei seems to have limited galactic or multi-galactic telepathy based on this. Don’t think it’s universal telepathy as according to AIB, Belial seemed to be hiding in another nebula.
 
Yeah.

Ultraman can sense energy and telepathy in crazy range.

- Dyna telepathy Cosmos in Orb Origin.

- Ultra Brother , Father of Ultra and Mother of Ultra , Cosmos , Hikari can sense Belial energy when he fought Geed in episode 24-25.
 
Anyways on to Pre-Crisis Impact stuff.

Ultraman Ginga

Ginga needed to use his full power to defeat Tiga Dark + Alien Valky

Dark Zagi in Ginga is the same as the Dark Zagi in Nexus. Once again Ginga Zagi has the same story as Nexus Zagi.

Dark Zagi and Ginga are comparable to each other. Once again Dark Zagi and Ginga are comparable.

Ginga is in trouble against Dark Ultraman whose power is as strong as the original.

Super Grand King is a stronger version of the original Grand King. Once again stronger version of the original.

Super Grand King is stronger than Ginga. Makes sense since if I remember correctly in series they had to weaken him to win.

Lugiel’s dark energy is stronger than Ginga.

Dark Lugiel’s Dark Spark is equal to Taro’s Strium Beam.

Chaos Ultraman and Ginga had a hard time settling their fight. Chaos Ultraman is comparable to Ginga.

Ginga Strium is Ginga fused with Taro’s power.

Ginga and Victory have about the same level of power. Ginga and Victory have comparable power.

Five King is the strongest enemy in the Ginga series half way through Ginga S. Five King > Dark Lugiel.

Hyper Zetton is Chibull’s strongest monster. Hyper Zetton > Five King.

Vict Lugiel is the strongest enemy in Ginga S series. Vict Lugiel > Hyper Zetton.

Victory w/ Hyper Zetton scissors and Ginga Strium w/ Ginga Spark Lance managed to push Vict Lugiel into a corner.

Etelgar is the strongest enemy in Ginga prior to Ultra Fight Victory. Once again Etelgar is the strongest enemy prior to Ultra Fight Victory. Etelgar > Vict Lugiel

Eteldummies are stronger than the original.

Chinese translation of an interview of the actors said if Cosmos used his full power during the Ginga S movie there wouldn’t be any need for them to be there. Implying that Future Mode Cosmos alone is enough to defeat Etelgar. But since this is an interview with the actors and not the directors I’m not sure if this statement should be taken seriously. Even though its kinda consistent with Future Mode Cosmos and Crusher Mode Justice fighting Leugocyte who is way more powerful than Etelgar.

During the events of Ginga S movie, Zero was the strongest Ultra Warrior. So this confirms that during Ginga S, Shining Zero > Ginga Victory and Future Cosmos.

There’s also the tower climb statement from an interview saying the higher up the floors they go in Etelgar’s castle the stronger the enemy, but I haven’t found it yet.

Juda Spectre is the strongest enemy in the universe at the time of Ultra Fight Victory. Juda Spectre is Victory’s strongest enemy. Victory also fought Etelgar but he wasn’t the strongest he fought so coupled together with the former statement this means Juda Spectre > Etelgar.

Ultraman X

Ultimate Zero armor has the power of Ultimate Zero.

Once again Ultimate Zero armor has the power of Ultimate Zero. Hybrid Armor is his strongest armor during his series.

Gua Spectre possesses the highest power among the Gua Army. So Gua Spectre > Super Grand King Spectre

During Ultraman X, Ginga Victory had to use his full power to defeat Gua Spectre.

Final Form Greeza is the strongest in the universe. Final Form Greeza is the strongest enemy X has faced. Thought it was 2nd form Greeza that had this statement guess I was wrong. So 2nd Form Greeza never had a stronger than Gua Spectre statement.

Beta Spark Armor is X’s strongest armor.

Zaigorg is equal to Greeza.

Ultraman Orb

Hyper Zetton Deathscythe is a strengthened version of normal Hyper Zetton.

Maga Orochi is the apex of Demon King Beast. So I guess this actually means Magatanothor and Maga Zetton aren’t stronger than Maga Orochi for fighting Orb Origin. Guess Orb was just weaker than he is now when he fought them as Orb Origin in the past.

Magata no Orochi is the strongest enemy Orb fought in his series and has the abilities of all Demon King Beasts.

Darebolic is Orb’s strongest enemy at the time of the movie. So Darebolic > Magata no Orochi.

Reibatos revived monsters are stronger than the original.

Composite Scaling

Beta Spark Armor X > Zaigorg = Final Form Greeza > Ginga Victory (Ultraman X) >= Gua Spectre > Super Grand King Spectre > Ginga Victory (Pre-Ultraman X) > Mold Spectre = Juda Spectre >≈< Knight Victory (Pre-Ultraman X) > Ultimate Zero Armor X > Etelgar >= Ultimate Zero > Vict Lugiel > Hyper Zetton > Five King > Ginga Strium > Dark Lugiel >= Taro > Base Ginga (Pre-Ultraman X) = Base Victory (Pre-Ultraman X) >= Dark Zagi > Jean-Nine ≈ Dark Ultraman ≈ Dark Seven = Seven (Ultraman Ginga) ≈ Ultraman (Ultraman Ginga) ≈ Ultraman Tiga > Tiga Dark

Shining Zero > Ginga Victory > Etelgar >= Ultimate Zero

Future Cosmos > Etelgar > Eclipse Cosmos 30x> Corona Cosmos = Chaos Ultraman ≈ Base Ginga = Base Victory > Luna Cosmos

Ginga Victory (Ultraman X) >= Gua Spectre > Base Ginga (Ultraman X) >= Mold Spectre w/ Dark Thunder Energy amp >≈ Knight Victory (Ultraman X) ≈ Exceed X

Orb Trinity (Post-Training) > Base and Fusion Form Orb (Post-Training) ≈ Base Zero (Ultraman Orb) > Reibatos > Orb Trinity (Pre-Training) ≈ Seven > Darebolic + Alien Gapiya Sadis > Darebolic > Magata no Orochi > Orb Origin >= Jugglus Juggler > Zeppandon > Thunder Breastar Orb > Maga Orochi > Burnmite Orb > Hurricane Slash Orb > Hyper Zetton Deathscythe > Hyper Zetton

Darebolic > Base X (Ultraman Orb) ≈ Base Victory (Ultraman Orb) ≈ Base Ginga (Ultraman Orb) >= Mold Spectre w/ Dark Thunder Energy amp

Ultimate Zero (Ultraman Orb) > Reibatos amped Juda Spectre > Juda Spectre > Etelgar >= Ultimate Zero (Ginga S)

I probably missed a lot of scaling between other characters but I don’t think I’ll fill them out as there’s way too much stuff to go over. We can just talk about who scales to who in the scaling chain after we make their profiles. For now this is the basic stuff during Pre-Crisis Impact.
 
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The part that says Ginga Strium is Ginga infused with the power of Taro had me wondering whether the amped up Gingabin the season 1 finale was pretty much the equivalent of Strium.

But in any case, I'll give it further check later. I'm also wondering if it'll be okay to have the overdue revisions thread be closed since everything there is pretty much done now.
 
Yeah I assume Ginga Strium is the equivalent of Season 1 Finale Taro energy amped Ginga if not stronger. Reason being season 1 finale was simply Ginga taking Taro’s energy. Ginga Strium seems to be Ginga straight up fusing with Taro as shown in Ultra Galaxy Fight 1. So personally I think Season 1 Finale Ginga is like an incomplete version of Ginga Strium.

Yeah I think it’s fine to close it now. We basically have that finished already.
 
Yeah that sounds about what I was thinking, too. That bit was and oddly consistent part.

Alright, then I'll put up the notification.
 
Yep.

Also once you look at the statements you could see just how ridiculous the scaling got after Mebius. Like wow. By Ultra Galaxy everybody is stronger than Alien Empera. As in literally everybody relevant. And by late Pre-Crisis Impact Era pretty much every Ultra is now superior to Dark Zagi. It’s crazy.

Edit: Btw does anybody want me to give a rough outline of what tiers the characters will scale to?
 
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Alright well to my knowledge

Possibly Low 2-C: Delacion

At least 3-A likely Low 2-C: King, Noa, Legend, Reiga, Reiwa Era Super Taro, Absolute Tartarus, Grimdo, Post-Crisis Impact Era Belial, Post-Crisis Impact Era Ultimate and Shining Zero, Reiwa Era Zero (All Forms)

At least 3-B likely 3-A: Juda, Grand King, Showa Era Super Taro, Glitter Tiga, Heisei Era Future Mode Cosmos, Heisei Era Crusher Mode Justice, Gloker Rook, Gloker Bishop, Giga Endra, Alien Empera, Armored Darkness, Armored Mephilas, possibly U-Killersaurus, everybody Ultra Galaxy Era onwards

4-B: Zetton, any monster that could beat Jack during his series, all monsters and Ultras, Ultraman Ace onwards up until Reimon Mode EX Gomora in Mega Monster Battle Season 1

High 4-C: All other monsters and Ultras before Return of Ultraman

I’ll probably just list how far they scale into the tier after I compile everything. But for now based on my estimations Eclipse Cosmos would be the strongest lvl of 4-B in the Ultra series clocking at over 7484585x baseline 4-B. This is only counting the 20x Ace statement from Taro during Showa, and the multiple several times and several ten times multiplier statements from Showa all the way to Heisei. They are obviously way more powerful than this as there are stomps and one shots and stuff in the scaling chain. And pretty much everybody else that is more powerful than Eclipse Cosmos are at least 3-B likely 3-A. Only a few of them are stronger without breaching into tier 3.
 
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Finally got to read this better, and now I wonder if we should make the sub classes by way of downscaling. I feel like given that Belial was still weakened when he empowered Kei, I feel like those should be somewhere within the outright 3-A range. Also, we should probably change those who aren't Legend, King or Noa to have a rating of "At least 3-A, possibly Low 2-C" instead of likely since I'm pretty sure it denotes a different enough league between the two.

That said, the 4-B ones might need streamlining but otherwise, that and everything else are fine.
 
Don’t think it’s possible for anybody to downscale like that. The weakened Belial in Ultraman Geed would still just be at least 3-B likely 3-A same with Kei as they only fought at least 3-B likely 3-As. And yeah personally if the bomb was straight up Low 2-C I would’ve liked to just make King, Noa, and Legend at least Low 2-C while everybody else is just simply Low 2-C scaling to the bomb. But since the bomb is at least 3-A likely Low 2-C instead, I just put everybody that scales to the bomb in that tier.

Yeah 4-B and probably tier 3 might need a bit more work since I’m not sure if the staffs and others would accept all of these multiplier statements.
 
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Ah, well I guess that makes sense. And besides, I don't think my proposal could have worked even if agreed on here, given the criteria needed for the likely and possibly rating to be applied.

That's definitely one reason.

Oh yeah, the "over time" bit on Juda Specter's tiering should be removed given the seemingly differing method of reaching his endgame.
 
Also about the tiering I just checked the tiering system page and found this.

"Significantly affect" is used as an umbrella term for feats that don't involve direct creation or destruction but are comparable to them in power, such as warping and distorting the entirety of the structure in question, sustaining its existence with one's own, merging the structure with another one, etc.

This is the notes for both 3-A all the way up to 2-A. Juda’s spatial warping perfectly fits this definition so he should actually be straight up 3-A. And the Space-Time Bomb was said to have spread throughout the entire universe so wouldn’t it also be straight up Low 2-C?
 
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That was what I was trying to bring up when I made my revision on the evidence for what should be Low 2-C. In episode narration and databook statement both say the same thing so by all means it should be.
 
Ahh welp. Guess we’ll just have to wait a bit and make another thread in the future. Cause it would feel awkward to open another thread and ask about the same thing a second and third time so soon after asking for it to be closed.

Let’s make another thread once I finish compiling the stuff up the Z and also after I have finished updating the main verse page. Which in total will take about a week or two.
 
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Definitely. It's really why progress had always been slow, later research reveals an aspect I forgot to bring up and then it just sort of fades away.
 
Doesn't mention that the supporters of Ultra Series are really low with only five of us that really active, and even myself can't contributed that much sadly

And btw i love that instead using Ultra Slash like Man and Jack did, Ace used as buzzaw and tried to shove it to Juda face, never change Ace...never change 😂
 
Five man verse (for most of the time). What are we, a Sentai team?

I especially loved that bit with Ace, just look how bloodthirsty he got the moment he stepped on-screen.
 
No, we are the Five Ultra Brothers

I mean even in Z he used his sword to fought Fusion-Baraba, a madlad. And also the 6 Ultra Brothers vs Gua Brothers are my fave fight in UGF: TAC after 80-Cosmos Alliance vs Reugosite and Max rescue team fights
 
I’m finally done with the images and stuff for the main page. Take a look and see if there’s any specific kaijus or aliens you guys want that are missing.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Peter1129/Sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Also does anybody know what speed calculations there are for the verse? Cause I know the only AP calcs that are important for the verse are Ultraman moving constellations and Zetton destroying the solar system. Also is there anything you guys want me to add onto the verse page?
 
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I'll look into Sandbox more extensively later.

But on speed feats, I believe Sun has one.

And here are the ones I've done:

*https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._Compilations_-_The_Ultra_Series:_New_Gen_Era
*https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mr.Cutlery/Calculation_-_Ultraman_Speed_Feats

I'll have to bring it back up for evaluation first, though since they were overlooked when I did it back then. Also might have to revise some for a little bit and add which ones are most consistent and in line. They're mostly traveling feats, too.
 
So like just taking a look at the speed feats and I could see that they are all over the place.

So do we assume Ultras have MFTL+ flight and reaction speed only in space or also on Earth? Cause it feels like they are specifically shown to be slower on Earth.
 
Yeah, no excuses there, I didn't bother with proper structuring then and still do because of my infrequent activities here.

And on that one, I honestly have no idea. It could just be that their portrayals on Earth are just a sort of regulated version. I always assumed that however they maneuvered in space could also translate into their normal reaction and combat speeds.
 
Yeah like the speed is a huge I have no clue in the series. Cause like we see that monsters like Genegarg and Greeza could clearly travel and fight with Z and X at FTL speeds. But then on Earth, the humans of the defense teams who are clearly not that fast are able to keep up with and hit them with their weapons without any problems whatsoever. Though I guess it could just be because their weapons are way faster than the ones in real life. I guess your idea that their speed is the same even on Earth is probably the best idea. Cause other wise we are gonna have a headache with the speed scaling.
 
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Yeah, and even if regular weapons do hit, it's inconsequential anyway. Alright then.

Besides, there are very few notable reaction feats on Earth. Unless you want to scale characters like Riku to Laiha, a normal human who could deflect rounds of lasers.
 
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