The Ultra Series Discussion Thread 4: Chant His Name!

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

If you mean the magazine leak then maybe wait until the end of month

 

[Peter1129]

Say, there hasn't been any known leaks yet right?

Sadly no. After the whole shenanigan with some dumbass Kamen Rider fan going on Twitter and showing the creators the leak of I think Zi-O Trinity and asking them whether or not this is real, we have never gotten any image leaks for the Tokusatsu series early anymore. At most we will only get text leaks.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Wait what the hell? Wow, okay, I guess it does explain why most reveals have been very slow these days. That's one hell of a repercussion though.

 

[Peter1129]

I don’t even get it. Why would anyone go on Twitter and ask the creators about something that isn’t even gonna be released anytime soon. Seriously I thought most people would’ve known by now not to show creators leaked contents before they are released. Just keep it to the fandom and wait to see for yourself.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Apologies for jumping to another topic so quickly, but what do you guys think looking back to when Z first started?

 

[Peter1129]

Still the same as before. The three series directed by Taguchi, X, Orb, and Z are the best of the New Generation. Z has a great main storyline as well as a great main cast and even it’s side story the whole thing with Haruki deciding whether or not it’s correct to kill monsters was great. Episode 14 (The Bullton episode) in particular was amazing. It had everything from comedy to emotions to awesome fight scenes. There’s a reason that episode broke a record on Niconico and became the first episode in any series anime, tokusatsu, and all other JP series in Niconico history to have 0 dislikes when the episode finished airing. The latest episode, episode 24 also had 0 dislikes when it finished airing. Z has just been breaking records left and right. There’s a good reason why Tsuburaya has officially decided to consider Z the Reiwa Tiga. At this point I think it’s safe to say Z has surpassed X and Orb as the best New Generation series.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Holy hell that's impressive, is it still the same at this point?

Yeah, it was pretty telling that Taguchi was going to do great when he first built up his skills during Ginga S' episodes.

 

[Peter1129]

What do you mean is still the same? The ratings? If that’s what you are talking about than I guess yeah. From what I remember on average Niconico’s rating for any show even animes is around 60-80% likes. But Z has been getting over 90% likes on every single one of its episodes except for two of them. But even those two episodes were over 80% which is above the average for Niconico.

The Chinese fandom even memes about Z. Saying things like Tsuburaya’s skills have went backwards by 20+ years. 20+ years was Heisei Trio Era (Tiga, Dyna, Gaia) so it’s a compliment. Or things like man the newest episode of Z didn’t break its previous record of 99.2% likes (Bullton episode) again the quality is dropping ovo. And just saying the latest episode with Destrudos got 99.1% likes.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Wow that's a ridiculously high achievement. It's honestly pretty great to hear.

Man, tough love by the Chinese community now, innit?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Still the same as before. The three series directed by Taguchi, X, Orb, and Z are the best of the New Generation. Z has a great main storyline as well as a great main cast and even it’s side story the whole thing with Haruki deciding whether or not it’s correct to kill monsters was great. Episode 14 (The Bullton episode) in particular was amazing. It had everything from comedy to emotions to awesome fight scenes. There’s a reason that episode broke a record on Niconico and became the first episode in any series anime, tokusatsu, and all other JP series in Niconico history to have 0 dislikes when the episode finished airing. The latest episode, episode 24 also had 0 dislikes when it finished airing. Z has just been breaking records left and right. There’s a good reason why Tsuburaya has officially decided to consider Z the Reiwa Tiga. At this point I think it’s safe to say Z has surpassed X and Orb as the best New Generation series.

WTF REALLY!!? HOLY MOTHER LIKE.....HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!!! Taguchi you are freaking genius!! After all the struggling they got, this achievemnt are really deserving

 

[Peter1129]

@Mr.Cutlery Yeah it’s good to see Ultraman being so well received.

Lol yeah. But in the end they are just memeing. They all say Z is amazing and deserves its ratings. Here’s the compilation of Niconico ratings for each episode of Z up to episode 24.

Also kinda sad how Mr. Fukihara never got to see Ultraman Z. Taguchi even said that if Bullton was real he wished he could go back to the past and bring Fukihara to the present to watch Ultraman Z.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Wow. Taguchi? More like tug-on-your-heartstrings; that is the single most painful and heartfelt wish I've ever heard when it comes to behind the scenes stuff.

 

[Peter1129]

Also did anybody realize that when Celebro talked about implanting fear into planets with civilization causing them to create weapons after weapons the screen went to Grigio Raiden? And we previously learned that Grigio Raiden arrived on Earth 10 years ago and is said to be tampered with and implied to be an alien bio weapon. So does anybody else think this is implying that Grigio Raiden was the weapon made by the previous civilization that was destroyed by Celebro‘s Civilization Self-Destruction Game?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I think that was most likely the intent of that little montage. And speaking of Grigio Raiden, seems like SAA is the closest Ultraman has been to Kamen Rider with how they're built through G.Raiden's data. And on topic of the extinction game still, I wonder if they're going to show what other monsters Celebro has used in the past.

Another minor realization, guess it's explained why the previous victims of the Devil Splinter haven't been shown yet. It kinda also brings the question of if Genegarg had wiped out a civilization too before being repelled.

 

[Peter1129]

Honestly though I’m pretty sure they are not going to reveal the stuff Celebro has done on screen. It’s probably just gonna be mentioned in the super complete works like in all the previous series.

 

[Peter1129]

Well boys looks like we are eating well again next year.

【田口在N站流行语颁奖的最后致辞中说道：来年还会来】【奥特曼吧】_百度贴吧

【田口在N站流行语颁..最後に田口監督のコメントもあったｗ。高頻度で流れるウルトラマン関連のコメントをずっと読んでくれてたそうです。そしてまた来年もこの場に来れるような作品を作るとのことです。円谷プロダクション、田口監督並び

tieba.baidu.com

Taguchi said he will still be coming next year. Which means he will still be a part of the next Ultraman Series‘ directing team. Not sure if he will be the main director though. If he is the than the Ultraman 55th Anniversary Series will very likely be another X, Orb, or Z quality series.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I just hope we get at least more than just 2 or 3 episodes from him this time. He had 3 rounds back in Taiga which was a good step for him as a side director. In any case, I have good hopes for the most part when it comes to directors, as I always do, for the next instalment. The only part I'm really worried about is who they'll get as writer.

 

[Peter1129]

Same. As long as it’s not whoever wrote Origin Saga than it’s fine.

Also now that it seems like the Alien Bat from Ultraman Saga is here. Do you guys think Zett will be considered stronger than the Hyper Zetton from Ultraman Saga or do you think it will only be stronger than a normal Hyper Zetton Deathscythe?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oof, but Origin Saga was written by Yuji Kobayashi though, and he's had some great works in the series. Then again, same happened with Takao Nakano with Orb's movie.

Well, hopefully this Bat does not have his ship anymore then at least it can be acceptable that his later creations are a bit weaker. Subsequently, I hope this somewhat applies to Zett.

On a random note, did you know Taguchi was the storyboard artist for Orb's movie? Another thing, outside of the giant heroes and monster genre, he also worked on Kamen Rider, as VFX Compositor. I just felt like sharing this.

 

[Peter1129]

Wasn’t it Hirotoshi Kobayashi that wrote it and not Yuji Kobayashi? At least Orb’s movie has the excuse that the writers and even Taguchi themselves said that they didn’t write the movie seriously on purpose as it was only made to be a fun movie. And honestly other than the part with Seven the movie was actually pretty fun overall.

Origin Saga on the other hand. We have Amate who acts too much like a naive saint despite almost everything pointing towards Queen Bezelb not being the type of creature that could be reasoned with to stop. Musashi who despite literally having the power to stop the war all by himself by just beating up the Queen never switches out of friggin Luna mode. And even when he did transform into Cosmos it was after Amate was getting beat up and about to be poisoned (Or was she already poisoned? Don’t really remember). Plus later on he of all people also decides to reprimand Juggler who thought the fastest way to stop the war was cutting down the tree. Like bruh you could’ve helped stop the army by transforming earlier or switching to any of your stronger forms but you didn’t do it. Musashi literally doesn’t have the right to reprimand somebody who was actually trying their hardest to fight and yet still lost somebody they care about and than decided to cut the tree down. And don’t even get me started on Gaia V2 and Agul V2 getting one shot by random fodder Bezelb fireball when previous they were able to stomp those very same minions. Like I just don’t get it. It started off pretty nice and all but towards the middle and end it just became really bad.

But what if Bat straight up says Zett is his greatest creation and later on says he’s stronger than the Hyper Zetton he made in Saga? Personally I’d be fine with it as this would show that the Ultras have improved to the point where they could defeat monsters that back than required really op fusions to defeat. But if it does happen I’m kinda worried about what the fandom would say. Cause let’s be honest Saga is easily one of the most wanked Ultraman for no reason. If Zett is revealed to be stronger than the Hyper Zetton from Ultraman Saga than it’s gonna start another era of downplaying for the god tiers once Zett gets defeated by let’s say Tri-Strium Taiga.

Yeah I’ve heard about those stuff. It’s pretty much the reason why everybody was so happy that Taguchi was gonna work on Ultraman next year. Cause almost everybody knows he works on a lot of stuff.

Edit: Oh right in case you guys didn’t know. Ultraman Z won 6th place on Japan’s yearly top 100 internet buzzword and Juggler won 45th place. The top 5 were Demon Slayer and hololive related words and Z is the only live action series in the top 10. So that should give you an understanding on just how popular Ultraman Z is now.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, I actually really love Orb's movie too, if only because it has some of the best stamina feats in the series.

The Origin Saga had problems, not sure why it got high praises. I didn't get that even during my first watch of it; there was ridiculous repetition between Amate and Shohei, general mishandling of characters and at times, confused plot progression. The most common reason I've heard is that it's reminiscent of older shows. Why? Non slow-mo fights.

I really have no idea when it comes to power scaling of things like that. I can accept whatever changes happen, so long as they're within reason as per yours, but yes, the fanbase is quite worrisome. You should be glad you guys aren't in the server I'm in.

Holy crap that's amazing. Looks like he's got his wish, almost everyone is chanting his name, huh? Even as one of the oldest genre, Tokusatsu has consistently succeeded getting into people's attention.

 

[Peter1129]

Honestly it’s probably just the English fandom. From what I know almost everybody in the chinese fandom hates it and says the story is terrible and is easily the worst of the New Generation. Only thing they like about it is Gaia and Agul returning and the first few episodes showing Gai being a noob and learning how to be Orb.

Yeah like I wouldn’t care too much as I already know Ultras get stronger as time goes on. But the other fans? Yeah I could already see what’s gonna happen. Like even in the chinese fandom where they could search and find the databook statements, there are still people who believe that the Ultras don’t get stronger. So I could only imagine how pissed the fans would be if the Hyper Zetton that fought evenly with Saga who they believed to be on par with the likes of King, Noa, and Legend was surpassed by Zett and defeated by the newer Ultras. Yeah I learned the hard way that some discord servers are quite bad if you want to discuss scaling and stuff so I can imagine how bad it is.

Yeah now we just need to wait and see if Z gets a movie. Though considering how there isn’t any news on the movie despite the series ending in less than a week I don’t think there will be a movie for Z.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I almost always forget that Gai had a noob moment in that series and I'm glad everytime I am reminded because it surprisingly ties to his own character development arcs. And I believe that's also what severely affected O.Saga's performance; the lack of proper character arcs for the guest Ultras. The characters who appear have the right development back in their series, but it went unutilized. Only Fujimiya had a sliver of character dynamic.

Honestly after a few things here and there, I have stopped believing that Saga was actually near the level of the likes of King.

If that's the case then hopefully the rumors of Z season 2 would be true. I mean, seems like if TAC was to connect with Z, then the story there would need further development through a proper series.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah that’s also one of the main reason I didn’t like Origin Saga. The returning characters don’t have much characterization and some of them even acts kinda ooc.

How did that even start in the first place? Was it because of that one magazine that put Saga alongside King, Noa, and Legend and said they were the four mysterious Ultras? Cause honestly Saga doesn’t have any right to stand alongside any of them. The latter three all have legends about them throughout the multiverse while Saga is literally just Zero + Dyna + Cosmos on top of a portion of Noa’s power the Ultimate Brace evolving into the Saga Brace. Not to mention by the Post-Omega Armageddon Era almost the everybody scales above Juda who could also destroy the universe like Alien Bat’s ship.

Some parts of the chinese fandom completely overhypes Saga because the original scrapped plans for the Ultraman Saga movie involved King dying at the beginning of the movie and the final fight involved having Legend working together with Saga (Who in the original plan was just Zero + Dyna) to defeat the boss. And they actually believed scrapped plans mean that’s Saga’s current power.

I hope if it is true it doesn’t turn out to be another Ginga S. Cause if that happens Z’s reputation would be ruined. Though I think I would prefer to have a new series. The Ultraman Z voice drama already gave lots of characterization to Z before he joined the Inter Galactic Defense Force.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I don't remember much about Saga's side materials since I never took interest in those during those years. Wasted opportunity, I know. But I think I do recall that, and I believe it is the reason for the sudden power hype.

Wow, Saga could have been the end of the series if they followed through with they and played the wrong cards.

I suppose. I enjoyed Ginga S but I also understand the view that it didn't quite expand on much else. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah Saga’s Era was weird when it comes to scaling. Cause that was pretty much the time when the Zero wank was at its worst.

The main problem with Ginga S was probably because Ginga was fighting all these top tier monsters and even final and movie bosses in the first series but than suddenly in the sequel he was getting beat up by much weaker monsters and needed to turn into Ginga Strium to even fight some of the stronger monsters. And the defense team higher ups just acted like assholes after appearing out of nowhere.

Also speaking of Ginga. What do we do about him? Cause I recently rewatched the fights of Ginga and I have to say his power is all over the place in the first series. At one point he was weaker than Jean Nine, than he was comparable, and than he was stronger and then he was back to being comparable. Same with when he fought Dark Ultraseven (Or was it Dark Ultraman?) in their first fight he was getting beat up and in their second fight he was stomping him. And since Ginga S was the same Ginga this would also be a problem with Victory. So should we just give him and Victory a varies key during their series?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I'm kinda unsure now what to do with Ginga since my rationale back then was to scale him to the strongest base state of the preceeding Ultra, that being Zero. I moght have to rewatch it myself, or we could discount contradictory feats like his fights with the likes of Ragon.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah I guess that could work. Just scale them to their highest showing. And I guess it wouldn’t really matter as we probably won’t be making profiles for all the monsters in the series. So Ginga w/ Taro’s energy > Taro = Dark Lugiel > Ginga > Dark Zagi

Not sure how Tiga, Ultraseven, Ultraman, and Jean Nine would scale though. Tiga Dark was shown to be strong enough to fight Ginga but he was taken out by Jean Nine who was stomped by Zagi who was defeated by Ginga. Seven and Ultraman are comparable to each other and kinda have the same problem with Tiga. They were able to fight Ginga but got stomped by him later on.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I think it should be more:
Ginga w/Taro's energy >=Despair empowered Lugiel = Taro > Lugiel = Ginga >= Zagi

I used >= because their showings only have slight edge over the other, usually requiring special techniques to put down the other for good.

But yeah, we really won't be making all the monster profiles anyway, unless they serve as scaling purposes, have special hax or just generally having good stats in botg tier and abilities.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh yeah almost forgot that Lugiel was comparable to Ginga and that he interrupted his size change in the final episode on top of being empowered. So yeah basically what you said.

Yeah I think the only profiles we will be making are the mid series finale, series finale, movie, haxxed, well known and popular monsters and aliens. Also we should make profiles for the defense teams as well. And if possible I would actually like to see a profile for Rei so I could put him up against Pokemon trainers that have 4-B legendaries ovo.

So should we make a list of profiles we need or want to make for the scaling and stuff?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Sounds good.

Also yes on the list, here's a few that could be important:
*Geed
*Zoiger
*Gransphere
*Dobishi
*Demon King Beasts
*Belial Fusion Beasts
*Black King
*Galactron
*Juggler

 

[Peter1129]

Guess I’ll just start listing the popular or decently haxxed monsters from the Series. We will definitely be making profiles for the Ultras so I won’t be mentioning them. So for now I’ll just be listing the ones that are popular or haxxed or are final bosses. I’ll also be updating the list every so often.

Showa

Ultra Q - Litra, M1

Ultraman - Zetton, Red King, Gomora, Alien Baltan, Alien Mefilas, Bullton, Antlar, Zaragoza, King Guesra, Bemular

Ultraseven - King Joe, Pandon, Eleking, Alien Guts, Windom, Miclas

Return of Ultraman (Ultraman Jack) - Alien Bat, Bemstar, Alien Nackle, Black King, Vacuumon, Pris-Ma

Ultraman Ace - Yapool, Ace Killer, Jumbo King, Baraba, Alien Hipporit, Aprasar (This monster is decently haxxed so we could make a profile for it)

Ultraman Taro - Birdon, Tyrant, Juda, Grand King, Alien Temperor, Alien Valky

Ultraman Leo - Sevenger, Alien Babarue, Black End, Nova, Pressure

Ultraman 80 - Margodon, Gymaira, Alien L85

Andro Melos - Juda, Mold, Gina, Gua, Andro Melos

Ultraman: Towards the Future (Ultraman Great) - Gudis, Kilazee

Ultraman: The Ulimate Hero (Ultraman Powered) - Powered Zetton (Just list it under Zetton)

Heisei

Ultraman Tiga - Evil Tiga, Gatanothor, Kyrieloid, Golza, Melba, Silvergon, Goldras, Kamilla, Darramb, Hudra

Ultraman Dyna - Terranoid, Sphere (Gransphere), Deathfacer, Reicubas, Alien Monera (Queen Monera), Geomos, Eshillis, Bishmel

Ultraman Gaia - Zogu, Gakuzom, Gan Q, C.O.V, King of Mons, Antimatter, Red Sphere, Bizorm, Satanbizor, Mizunoe Dragon (Personal preferences really like this monster and honestly it’s official Kaiju girl design looks awesome)

Ultraman Neos - Mensch Heit, Zamu Revenger, Grall

Ultraman Cosmos - Delacion, Giga Endra, Gloker, Sandros, Chaos Header

Ultraman Nexus - Dark Zagi, Dark Mephisto, Dark Mephisto Zwei, Dark Faust, Izmael, Beast the One, Galberos, Nosferu

Ultraman Max - IF, Madeus, Berserke, Alien Sran, Alien Moetaranga, Alien Shamer, Dark Baltan, Space Cat

Ultraman Mebius - Alien Empera, Armored Darkness, Dark Silhouette, Giga Khimaira, U-Killersaurus, Grozam, Deathrem, Bogar, Zamsher, Mechazam, Imperializer, Alien Reflect, Jasyuline

Ultra Galaxy - EX Monsters, King Joe Black, King Joe Scarlet, Alien Rayblood, Beryudora

Ultraman Zero - Darkclops Zero, Mecha Gomora, Mirror Knight, Glenfire, Jean-Bot, Jean-Nine, Beatstar, Legionoid, Hyper Zetton (I think we should probably split Hyper Zetton from Zetton as they also have quite a lot of appearances and variants)

New Generation

Ultraman Ginga - Dark Lugiel, Five King, Shepherdon, Etelgar

Ultraman X - Zaigorg, Greeza, Demaaga, Gargorgon

Ultraman Orb - Jugglus Juggler, Demon King Beast, Zeppandon, Galactron, Hyper Zetton Deathscythe, Bezelb, Psyqueen, Alien Gapiya, Darebolic, Reibatos

Ultraman Geed - Belial Fusion Monsters, Zegun, Galactron MK2, Gilvallis

Ultraman R/B - Grigio (Bone, King, Regina), Leugocyte, Snake Darkness, Horoboros, Ultra-Dark Killer

Ultraman Taiga - Hellberus, Segmegar, Night Fang, Gigadelos, Gorothunder, Woola, Grimdo, Zetton Falx, Zett, Absolute Tartarus

Ultraman Z - Genegarg, Tri-King, Alien Barossa, Grigio Raiden, Metsuboros, Ultroid Zero, Destrudos

 

[Peter1129]

Okay I think I have finished listing all the popular and important ones in the ultra series. Feel free to mention any others. And after the tiers have been decided we could start making profiles for them after we revise the current profiles.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ultraman - Zaragas (Adaptation and I remember he proved to be a challenge), Antlar

Return of Ultraman - Pris-Ma

Ultraman 80 - Alien L85 Zuckal (if only for his telepathy which Yamato resisted)

Ultraman Neos - Zamu Revenger, Grall

Ultraman Dyna - Eshillis, Bishmel

Ultraman Gaia - Bizorm, Satanbizorm

Ultraman Nexus - Nosferu

That's about the only ones I'd assume could also use profiles and be used for scaling or for their abilities.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Does anyone else remember that Titas had casual soul manipulation in episose 3 of Taiga? I mean most Ultras should logically have it given the nature of their Inner Light being, but I forgot that they usually use it sparingly.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh yeah Titas did do that. So what other abilities is a common thing that Ultraman could all use?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Telepathy should be one, since most of the time we actually seem to disregard them talking to their hosts as simple face to face communication. There should be more explicit instance of it though, just can't remember much now. Theoretically can be used for offensive purposes too since Seven's awakening could have potentially destroyed Jin's mind in Ultraseven X.

Body Control might also count when taking situations like Zero and Z into account. Well, only for bonded Ultras.

Not sure what else, perhaps Regeneration? Ones like Tiga seemingly only has Low levels, but we know there are higher casual showings.

 

[Peter1129]

We could probably just use the abilities listed here and whatever isn’t listed on it.

Residents of the Land of Light

The Residents of the Land of Light (光の国の住人, Hikari no Kuni no Jūnin), or the People of Nebula M78 (M78星雲人, M78 Seiun-jin), often simply abbreviated to Ultras, are the race who live on the Land of Light. They are beings of light who are known for their great powers and strong sense of compassion...

ultra.fandom.com

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, it's probably better if we just scour through there and see which fits where.

 

[Peter1129]

So uhh today I decided to flip through the Cosmos and Justice’s thread on Tieba and I uhh found some really crazy stuff that I’m gonna need you guys to check for me.

So Standard Justice’s kick was compared to Super Taro and it’s shown in this magazine that it could destroy Grand King’s armor.

Grand King is equal to Alien Empera in combat. I have no clue if this vs battle book between Grand King and Alien Empera is an official thing or not though. But considering how the chinese fandom are actually using this book I think it’s supposed to be one of those official what if vs battle books. No clue what it’s called though.

Also Gloker Bishop is apparently repeatedly stated to be the strongest robot at the time of Cosmos. Grand King is also considered a robot. And coupled together with that Standard Justice is capable of breaking Grand King’s armor databook the chinese fandom said Gloker Bishop > Grand King.

Edit: The more I read the Cosmos series’ databook statements and stuff. The more I am in awe at the scaling. Cosmos and Justice really do deserve to be the strongest Heisei Era Ultras behind only Zero. I’ll compile a list of the crazy stuff in Cosmos sometime tomorrow.