SirAlex09
He/Him- 1,169
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Do you have the scan for this?
Skintight barrier work the same
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Do you have the scan for this?
Skintight barrier work the same
muchos gracias
5* That's a human.100% frieza still can react n can hit ssj goku multiple times even though they have 30m pl difference. that like 0 pl guy vs kkx10 goku.
Idk about that. Sure all the stamina consumption and emotion part but Vegeta later mastered SSJ as well.
When Cabba and Vegeta fought , they were equally strong in base.
When both fought each other in SSJ, Vegeta's SSJ form showed a higher Power output to the point that he didn't even take dmg, when he was remotely serious.
In one of Null's linked sources, it states you need emit Ki twice the size of your opponent to negate your opponents attack.
The fight wasn't long enough for Cabba to be stamina drained. Here we see best the difference between untrained SSJ and MSSJ.
But I can see your point. Higher Base form makes sense as well. Since it is a different topic altogether , I would avoid debating. ( I found some sources that say it "draws out power of the Super Saiyan to it's limits" which suggest a higher power output ( apparently Daizenshuu 2 according to the Dragonballwikia), and 1 spanish guide that says it has the strength of Grade 3 but none of the disadvantage
But the evidence is fishy which I agree with.
Not really the same guidebook. Daizenshuu doesn't really have a saying on "~tsuu" and "~tsuree"'s multipliers. Also, it's 400x for SSJ3I would like to bring this up if it hasn’t been already:
According to a guidebook, it confirms that SSJ1 is 50x. However it also says that SSJ2 is 100x, and SSJ3 is 150x.
Yeah, but kaioken specifically amps all physical stats including speed while super saiyan isn’t so simpleif you agree that kaioken x20 is 20 times faster then it is logically not possible for ssj to be something other than 50 times faster
iirc it amplifies ki which is what actually impacts said statisticsYeah, but kaioken specifically amps all physical stats including speed while super saiyan isn’t so simple
Please don't question people's votes, both arguments are considered plausible by many here.if you agree that kaioken x20 is 20 times faster then it is logically not possible for ssj to be something other than 50 times faster
Now that you've engaged in c o m m u n i c a t i o n.Yeah, but kaioken specifically amps all physical stats including speed while super saiyan isn’t so simple
kaioken amps ki, which as a result amps all physical stats, as shown in the few official statements we were given. super saiyan does exactly that, just many times higher. what isn't simple?Yeah, but kaioken specifically amps all physical stats including speed while super saiyan isn’t so simple
But ssj increases speed tho...Yeah, but kaioken specifically amps all physical stats including speed while super saiyan isn’t so simple
It’s the fact that super saiyan transformations can increase ki while decreasing speed while kaioken doesn’t do such a thing. Obviously, I’m not saying that super saiyan decreases speed, but I’m still pretty doubtful of speed also increasing 50-foldkaioken amps ki, which as a result amps all physical stats, as shown in the few official statements we were given. super saiyan does exactly that, just many times higher. what isn't simple?
the form you are referencing decreases speed not due to the way ki is amplified, but due to muscle massIt’s the fact that super saiyan transformations can increase ki while decreasing speed while kaioken doesn’t do such a thing. Obviously, I’m not saying that super saiyan decreases speed, but I’m still pretty doubtful of speed also increasing 50-fold
But in that way, it’s established that simply increasing ki doesn’t necessarily increase speed in the same way. If you have a scan contradicting this notion, then I’ll concedethe form you are referencing decreases speed not due to the way ki is amplified, but due to muscle mass
I mean, here. Amplifying or increasing ki, effects speed and AP.But in that way, it’s established that simply increasing ki doesn’t necessarily increase speed in the same way. If you have a scan contradicting this notion, then I’ll concede
If the amount of Ki amplified cannot compensate for the mass gained, then one's speed will decrease.But in that way, it’s established that simply increasing ki doesn’t necessarily increase speed in the same way. If you have a scan contradicting this notion, then I’ll concede
That doesn't really indicate that. I'll just quote what i said earlier in this thread explaining why it's not necessarily a contradiction.But in that way, it’s established that simply increasing ki doesn’t necessarily increase speed in the same way. If you have a scan contradicting this notion, then I’ll concede
Also nothing stops grade 3 from simply being an outlier/inconsistent.there are two forces acting upon trunks's speed in grade 3 (if i steelmanned the idea it increased ki), the ki amp which would acting for it/increasing it, and the muscle mass, which is clearly greater, acting against it, and the sum total of both of these "forces" acting upon this speed is negative/decreasing it.
Muscles be densethe form you are referencing decreases speed not due to the way ki is amplified, but due to muscle mass
Didn't try to say it was your intention, I apologize. But it was one guy vs a bunch of people, so it feels a little overwhelming, speaking from experience.It's not my intention to attack him/overwhelm a guy, I was just attempting to persuade him. MB if i come across as negative.
u mean 10x times faster still can get blitz?40 times vs 50 times isn't enough for a blitz bro
That's not 10x.u mean 10x times faster still can get blitz?
Was gonna say this but I didn't wanna delve into the speeds all over again.That's not 10x.
400 is 10x 40
50 is 1,25x 40
zeno uses EEWhat about Zeno having a greater DC than all the characters. Yet he needs the godapp to see their speed. Why wouldn't his "power level" put his speed for above them also?
There are a few cases where weaker chars are faster. Like burterWhat about Zeno having a greater DC than all the characters. Yet he needs the godapp to see their speed. Why wouldn't his "power level" put his speed for above them also?
Zeno's power seems to be only his EE. Physically he doesn't seem that strong, nor is Zeno a fighter of any kindWhat about Zeno having a greater DC than all the characters. Yet he needs the godapp to see their speed. Why wouldn't his "power level" put his speed for above them also?
Isn't EE a ki based attack?Zeno's power seems to be only his EE. Physically he doesn't seem that strong, nor is Zeno a fighter of any kind
No. Pretty sure it has nothing to do with kiIsn't EE a ki based attack?
According to Vsbattle Zeno file, Zeno used a single ki blast to erase Infinite Zamasu and all the 12 universes.No. Pretty sure it has nothing to do with ki
Outlier, Zeno was capable of perceiving like every other fight in the tournament, and then notes afterwards that it was fun.What about Zeno having a greater DC than all the characters. Yet he needs the godapp to see their speed. Why wouldn't his "power level" put his speed for above them also?
Pretty sure people do, but with the overwhelming 3:1 ratio, and lack of further input, this thread will most likely die.is there anybody here that still even agrees with the op
well better it be closed now than later, this has already overstayed it's welcome by like 5 pagesOutlier, Zeno was capable of perceiving like every other fight in the tournament, and then notes afterwards that it was fun.
Pretty sure people do, but with the overwhelming 3:1 ratio, and lack of further input, this thread will most likely die.