The Slayer vs The Substitute

[DTG499]

It's just that one time! How do you not see it as an inconsistency? Anybody please! Show me a scan where soul crush worked on someone with higher AP!

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

7 votes in favor of ichigo already

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

It's just that one time! How do you not see it as an inconsistency? Anybody please! Show me a scan where soul crush worked on someone with higher AP!

You do know that everyone they fight has soul resistance right? even having a little of reiatsu gives you resistance in the 100s

 

[DTG499]

No it doesn't the man was trying to scale an ability to passive aura everyone knows that's doesn't make sense and that every series does that.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Soul hax cant be use to compare soul hax? Gonsui is a soul hax to take 100s of souls and his reiatsu (whixh is soul hax) is passively above that.

 

[SpookyShadow]

You guys can call IMade or Sigurd here. Maybe they will know how to explain that soulhax ignores durability.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Sigurd already came here he still does not understand

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Either way this is a stomp in favor of ichigo via reiatsu crush so this will be closed

 

[AnonymousBlank]

If it's based on AP or the amount of energy, why was Ichigo ever crushed? Why was Orihime not crushed by Kenpachi or Ulq or Yhwach? Why was Tatsuki not crushed by Yammy instantly? Rukia, Renji and Chad not getting crushed by released Yammy? Ishida by SE Ulq? Etc etc etc. This isn't comics where you get a stupid amount of outliers throughout the publishing history with dozens of different writers that end up being "consistent". Most of these instances occur within the same arc, with in the same irl year and with only one writer for all of it.

Reiatsu crush not working on people who happen to be stronger means jack when weaker people resist it. The two are separate.

 

[Keeweed]

Wow Purgy you just went "lol argument bad" instead of just showing me a time where aura affected someone with higher AP or just showing me how orihime is not inconsistent. Smh

The Doom Slayer has less ap. Stop bring ap up like it makes a massive difference, it doesn't because even if the soul crushing was reliant on ap, Ichigo has the ap advantage.

 

[DTG499]

We will continue this when I get off work in like 6 hours

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Why is this still open? It's a passive stomp lol.

 

[Schnee_One]

Cause someone disagrees

BTW why do people need to show proof it works on stronger Beings? Doom guy isn't stronger, in fact, he is weaker then Ichigo.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Cause someone disagrees
BTW why do people need to show proof it works on stronger Beings? Doom guy isn't stronger, in fact, he is weaker then Ichigo.

Is really normal when they try to discredit reiatsu crush, when we bring all evidence and they cant refute it they more often than not say "well has it worked on someone stronger?"

 

[DTG499]

The thread host says doomguy has berserk and onslaught, not that the power ups spawn somewhere on the battlefield, he HAS it. So he starts out with a 10 times boost to dura and a 40 times boost to his AP.

The only evidence I've seen for soul crush not being AP is that one time orihime stops next to ichigo and Yhwach. Why is that not considered and inconsistency since we have tons of other examples of people using soul crush on beings with lower AP?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

"So no Beserk for Slayer" from OP

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

The only evidence I've seen for soul crush not being AP is that one time orihime stops next to ichigo and Yhwach. Why is that not considered and inconsistency since we have tons of other examples of people using soul crush on beings with lower AP?

then you need to re read the whole manga then

 

[DTG499]

"So no Beserk for Slayer" from OP

Then I said you need to keep it other wise it's a stomp. That's why it's still there.

lol just provide scans bud, it's a lot more feasible for you just to provide a couple scans proving me wrong than for me to read it back to front.

Look I already got out voted, which is fine I'll take that L. I'm just trying to make sense of this soul manip system in bleach. Because as of right now I see the reasoning as inconsistent and it seems strongly reliant on AP.

 

[Keeweed]

The Slayer doesn't start 10 times stronger, he actually has to use the berserker sphere. He fails to do that here because Soul Crushing is passive.

 

[DTG499]

That statement confuses me, if he has it he's using it. He can't just keep it in his back pocket and save it for later.

 

[Keeweed]

I've heard he actually can hold onto it in canon. Even if he couldn't the time it takes him to us it would lead to him being Soul Crushed.

 

[DTG499]

Even so the gap is only about a 30 percent difference. The soul crush only becomes immobilizing when the gap is the difference between a 7-C and 7-A.

 

[Keeweed]

That 7-C had much better soul resistance, and that was when the 7-A was holding back. Ichigo isn't holding back here and the Doom Slayer has worse resistance so he dies.

 

[DTG499]

Wait so now it's resistance based again? Ok so do we have a solid number for her soul manip resist or is it just going to be "I dunno but it's bigger than doomguy's" again? This is in character ichigo most of the time starts out holding back.

Honestly I've been asking around a bit about the ways to measure soul manip resist because it doesn't actually exist like AP numbers do. And the over answers have been, there is no objective way to measure soul manipulation resistance and things like it. So really comes down to you subjective interpretation on what each verse tries to convey. My interpretation for DOOM is that since he's immune to every single lost soul in existence and the effects of passive soul corruption in hell that would make his souls manipulation resistance in the countless amount. I have been lowering my actual thoughts on the amount to make it more digestible to the people voting, I have failed. You still disagree even with the lowered amount and your disagreement is shared with six other people so I have lost. I still don't understand how the soul manip scaling in bleach works at all and it still seems AP based to me but that's fine we can agree to disagree. I'll go ask some off the knowledgeable bleach members to see if I can digest and understanding of the system.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

we already said that the weakest of the characters already has a resistance in the 100s and yammy by being near that character was crushing her with no intent to do so whatsoever


When Shinigami prepare for battle or in this case start the fight their body releases their reiatsu so ichigo already has the reiatsu crush when the fight starts

 

[Keeweed]

Wait so now it's resistance based again? Ok so do we have a solid number for her soul manip resist or is it just going to be "I dunno but it's bigger than doomguy's" again? This is in character ichigo most of the time starts out holding back.

It was always resistance based. I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt because you kept bring up ap. However it absolutely scales to resistances and not ap.

 

[Keeweed]

My interpretation for DOOM is that since he's immune to every single lost soul in existence and the effects of passive soul corruption in hell that would make his souls manipulation resistance in the countless amount.

This is completely false. He scales to a single Lost Soul. He would only scale to every Lost Soul in existence if every single one of them attacked him at once: they obviously didn't do this because there are still plenty of Lost Souls all over the place. Other normal humans have entered Hell before without their souls being attacked so that wouldn't give the Slayer resistance either.

The Slayer only scales to surviving Lost Soul's soul attacks one at a time.

Edit: Sorry if that comment came off as rude.

 

[DTG499]

we already said that the weakest of the characters already has a resistance in the 100s and yammy by being near that character was crushing her with no intent to do so whatsoever

When Shinigami prepare for battle or in this case start the fight their body releases their reiatsu so ichigo already has the reiatsu crush when the fight starts

Yeah I read that, I just don't get how you scale an ability to passive aura. This is the explanation I got, "I am scaling reiatsu crush above Gonzui by feats. Even at his weakest, Ichigo's reiatsu was strong enough to screw over Rukia's senses" This is not in any way a connection to yammy's ability and passive aura. Did Rukia resist that specific ability with no noticeable affects on her then yes I get it but I'm pretty sure the gonzui has only been used that one time.If you say that Tatsuki's resistance to gonzui scales to other characters you are contradicting yourself because that's AP scaling.

 

[DTG499]

Keeweed on the hell thing, there have been multiple retcons from doom 2016 and doom eternal. The titans being able to resurrect, Samuel Hayden isn't human anymore, doomguy isn't the rumored demon or god, etc. Even if that specific time where we had soldiers shown to be in hell wasn't a retcon, we know the process happens over time so the soldiers were probably killed by demons before the soul corruption effect could take place. Doomguy was there for billons of years. I'm sorry but it's impossible for there to be an object way to measure souls manip power and resistance.

It seems the main argument against the large number of soul resist for doomguy is the momentary gap between the attacks but when I rewatched yammy use gonzui there were momentary gaps between the humans getting their souls sucked too. I saw them getting absorbed at different times, dying at different times yammy did not even eat all of them at the exact same time. So does it really have to be the EXACT same time?

 

[Keeweed]

If the Soul corruption failed to kill even normal soldiers for any period of time that would make the Slayer's resistance baseline.

 

[DTG499]

If the Soul corruption failed to kill even normal soldiers for any period of time that would make the Slayer's resistance baseline.

The process takes eons, doomguy was there for eons. The soldiers were there for a couple days at most.

 

[DTG499]

Every single demon we see was once a mortal, hell passively extracts the soul from the body. Hell is stated to capture entire universe sized dimensions into itself it passively extracts the soul of every single person in that dimension. There is a stated Infinte amount of demons in hell and hell is a fifth dimensional structure.

 

[DTG499]

I literally just started looking at doom eternals codexs. I could of saved us so much time of I just did that out the gate. lol my bad.

 

[Keeweed]

How can it take an infinite number of souls in a finite amount of time if it took the souls one by one over eons. Also if the process takes Eons that's more of a reason as to why the Slayer's resistances should be baseline.

 

[DTG499]

Here are the scans of hell passively consuming souls



Here's the scan of them consuming the souls of entire worlds

 

[Keeweed]

That would still be baseline since it would be turning them individually into demons. It's the same reason Touhou has baseline mind resistance despite the feat affecting the entire planet. It effects the individual person by person. The entirety of Hell itself would need to be actively attacking the Slayer's soul in order for them to scale.

 

[DTG499]

Where do you get individually from in that statement? So you're saying the entire fifth dimensional realm of hell is consuming one soul every billion years? Explain to me how that makes sense to you.

 

[Schnee_One]

Hell consuming souls is not a process of it consuming billions of couls at once, it consumes one every time a person dies.

 

[DTG499]

Yes it consumes the souls of dead people and the souls of people already alive. "The soul slowly drains from the body in that dark realm mortal life is manifest as matter" it says there the person is still alive.

 

[DTG499]

But I get it I gotta get it passed on revisions first so that's what I'm about to do.