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The Slayer vs The Substitute

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I actually looked up their speed and they are kinda close the slayer is Mach 209 while Ichigo is Mach 174
 
DTG499 said:
@purgy
The specters in doom are described in lore to have "psionic invisibility" which can basically be described as complete physical and spiritual invisibility. Doomguy sees them just fine.

https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Spectre/Doom_(2016)

Jump to 4:05 on this video and you'll doomguy destroy a soul through non physical means.

https://youtu.be/KPiDnQcGh7Q
The Spectre page you linked refers to them as being "near invisible" and translucent.

"In combat Spectres have the same abilities as Pinkies, the only difference being their translucent bodies. The Spectre will typically attempt to use its near-invisible body to its advantage by sneaking up on the player and biting them, though they will exhibit the same charging attacks as well if they can acquire an uninterrupted path to the player."

Souls aren't assumed invisible by default iirc, they need to have been demonstrated as such. Also, in the video, I'm not sure if I'm just blind but I legitimately don't see anything there representing a soul.
 
Their was a soul residing in the shield of the gladiator, he didn't destroy the shield directly he just attacked the glowing part of it destroying soul thus the shield.

Read until the very end of the description for the specter. That's where you'll see the statement I was referring to.

Then you have the lost souls who are literally just souls. You can already see for yourself that he has non-physical interaction and the ability to see invisible things listed.
 
DTG499 said:
Their was a soul residing in the shield of the gladiator, he didn't destroy the shield directly he just attacked the glowing part of it destroying soul thus the shield.
Read until the very end of the description for the specter. That's where you'll see the statement I was referring to.
Alright, still though to my knowledge souls aren't assumed invisible by default.

My bad I didn't see that. Then that page is contradicting itself, is there an example of somebody being unable to see Spectres?
 
"It is believed the beast was accidentally released from its pen when its keeper, thinking the invisible Spectre had escaped, opened the gate" No one but doomguy can see the spectres.
 
DTG499 said:
"It is believed the beast was accidentally released from its pen when its keeper, thinking the invisible Spectre had escaped, opened the gate" No one but doomguy can see the spectres.
Okay, but it's confusing when it says they're invisible, whilst also saying they're "partially" or "nearly" invisible. If they're completely invisible than DoomSlayer wins, if not then he loses. Everywhere I've looked it never says fully invisible or even implies it, there's always a "nearly " or a "partially".
 
The partially invisible and translucent parts are all describing the player's view of it rather than lore descriptions, so I assume it's invisible in lore but only transparent in gameplay
 
What stops Ichigo's passive soul crushing? The Slayers soul resistance is baseline so Ichigo should stomp just via standing there.
 
Blahblah9755 said:
The partially invisible and translucent parts are all describing the player's view of it rather than lore descriptions, so I assume it's invisible in lore but only transparent in gameplay
I'm not sure I agree, it seems people are taking them as being referred to as "invisible" as to mean completely so, when everywhere I've looked it's never said that, if you can show me something saying they're completely invisible or impossible to see by anybody other than DoomSlayer then I'll concede, but again it seems like people are taking segments where they're referred to as invisible, whilst simultaneously ignoring segments where they're referred to as mostly/partially/nearly invisible.
 
DTG499 said:
Has he ever actually killed anyone by just standing?
He was crushing Rukia's soul by being in her presence, even if you want to argue he can't kill by doing it, Rukia was completely unable to move. Actually scratch that, I believe it was Byakuya, but this Ichigo scales to that Byakuya and above (temporarily until his Bankai crushes his body due to the strain) in Bankai.
 
I'm not sure I agree, it seems people are taking them as being referred to as "invisible" as to mean completely so, when everywhere I've looked it's never said that, if you can show me something saying they're completely invisible or impossible to see by anybody other than DoomSlayer then I'll concede, but again it seems like people are taking segments where they're referred to as invisible, whilst simultaneously ignoring segments where they're referred to as mostly/partially/nearly invisible.

Always take priory in lore over gameplay, when they say partially invisible it means it partially invisible to the perspective of doomguy. It's stated within the lore the anyone else cannot see them AT ALL.
 
Last time I checked Reiatsu Crush is passive for nearly every Bleach character (excluding random 10-B fodder). I'm pretty sure Ichigo just Soul Crushes here.
 
DTG499 said:
I'm not sure I agree, it seems people are taking them as being referred to as "invisible" as to mean completely so, when everywhere I've looked it's never said that, if you can show me something saying they're completely invisible or impossible to see by anybody other than DoomSlayer then I'll concede, but again it seems like people are taking segments where they're referred to as invisible, whilst simultaneously ignoring segments where they're referred to as mostly/partially/nearly invisible.
It's stated within the lore the anyone else cannot see them AT ALL.
Did you post a source for that already because I must have missed it.
 
Ichigo has the ap advantage, second I don't believe it scales to ap I remember that revision being rejected. Ichigo soul crushes.
 
If you read any of Ichigo's other threads they all basically just say Reiatsu Crush gg. Ichigo can crush souls, I'm pretty sure it's not on the profile because Ichigo already had soul manipulation listed on his profile for a different reason.
 
DTG499 said:
I did, read it agai
This is from their page on this wiki.

"The Spectre is one of the stronger low-level enemies in DOOM, and is in fact a direct relative to the Pinky. Unlike their more straightforward counterparts, they possess a form of psionic invisibility that makes them nigh-impossible to see, and tend to utilize more stealth-based tactics in order to dispatch their victims. Despite this, they are in fact much weaker and less durable than their non-invisible brethren, requiring far less damage in order to be killed."

  • Adaptive Invisibility: The Spectre possesses a psionic trait that bends and warps light around itself in a manner that causes its surroundings to be seen through its body, functionally rendering it invisible to the naked eye. This invisibility is not entirely perfect in the original games, but is much more potent in the 2016 reboot, as the very first Spectre was able to use its invisibility in order to trick its keeper into believing it had escaped.
Not true invisibility and arguably still visible if you're perceptive enough, Bleach characters are entirely and completely invisible and it's not done by messing with Light, I mean they can't even be heard let alone seen.

From everything I've researched and that has been presented, I see no reason as to why DoomSlayer would even be able to sense let alone see Ichigo. Lastly, this is conjecture but given that Spectres become "semi" invisible due to messing with Light, it's possible DoomSlayers helmet/equipment is what allows him to see them and can't even be applied to Ichigo since he doesn't become invisible by messing with Light and it's purely supernatural.

TLDR: DoomSlayer can't see Ichigo.
 
Ok so a couple things I need to know. Why doesn't the soul crush work on 10-Bs, what is Rukia's souls manip resist level and why doesn't it scale to AP when having the higher AP is the how you soul crush someone to begin with. Correct me if I'm wrong too wasn't Rukia a 7-C when see got soul crushed by Ichigo?
 
DTG499 said:
Ok so a couple things I need to know. Why doesn't the soul crush work on 10-Bs, what is Rukia's souls manip resist level and why doesn't it scale to AP when having the higher AP is the how you soul crush someone to begin with. Correct me if I'm wrong too wasn't Rukia a 7-C when see got soul crushed by Ichigo?
AP has nothing to do with it, you were already told this. Orihime who is Large Island level was able to be in the presence of Yhwach and Ichigo whilst they were fighting both of which are soon to be Large Planet level.
 
No it works on the 10-Bs. I meant that the 10-Bs don't have the soul crush. Ichigo has the ap advantage so even if it was an ap thing, Ichigo should still soul crush. Bleach scales vastly above baseline soul resistance while the Doom Slayer is baseline when it comes to his soul resistance.
 
@purgy

No, you're just reading the paraphrased description of made by the wiki. This is the quote you need to focus on. "It is believed the beast was accidentally released from its pen when its keeper, thinking the invisible Spectre had escaped, opened the gate" This actual in game lore statement is basically saying that the guy could not tell at all whether the Spectre was actually in the cage or not.
 
DTG499 said:
@purgy
No, you're just reading the paraphrased description of made by the wiki. This is the quote you need to focus on. "It is believed the beast was accidentally released from its pen when its keeper, thinking the invisible Spectre had escaped, opened the gate" This actual in game lore statement is basically saying that the guy could not tell at all whether the Spectre was actually in the cage or not.
Some random fodder not being perceptive enough/focusing enough on it doesn't mean it's completely and utterly invisible, I'm not arguing it can't make itself hard to see, but everything I've read has strongly indicated that it's not entirely invisible and instead only difficult to see.
 
That guy could have just been crap at his job. Considering he went into an enclosure for an invisible creature, because he couldn't see it, it points to the guy that opened the door just missing part of the demon that is partially visible.
 
@Keeweed We measure soul manipulation by the amount right? Ok so what are the numbers for Rukia at the time. @purgy Ok so that just makes even less sense now a 7-A from 7-C gap is able to soul crush but a 6-C to 5-B isn't? I'm just saying in verse it defiantly scales to AP, that's the whole point of it. The aura crush is the ultimate "look at how big my power level is". But I get it, it's clearly inconsistent. So does the sou crush cap out at 6-C or do we just scale the resistance to the aura?
 
Keeweed said:
That guy could have just been crap at his job. Considering he went into an enclosure for an invisible creature, because he couldn't see it, it points to the guy that opened the door just missing part of the demon that is partially visible.
What are you talking about? It's the UAC's colony on mars is exclusively full of people researching ways to fix the world's energy crisis. Only the elite of the elite would be working there. If they appeared to him as they do in game he would seem him like we can and not have let it out, period.
 
Ok I'm going to bed. Soul manipulation for aura is not listed, so go get that fixed. And if you guys still think doomguy shouldn't have the ability to see invisible/non corporeal things, go get that fixed.
 
DTG499 said:
@purgy Ok so that just makes even less sense now a 7-A from 7-C gap is able to soul crush but a 6-C to 5-B isn't? I'm just saying in verse it defiantly scales to AP, that's the whole point of it. The aura crush is the ultimate "look at how big my power level is". But I get it, it's clearly inconsistent. So does the sou crush cap out at 6-C or do we just scale the resistance to the aura?
No because it's not about AP, it's about your soul resistance. You thinking it's a "Look at how big my power level is" thing is just your perception of it, which is wrong.
 
Ok if it's not AP based then we should have seen a person who has a lower AP soul crush someone who has a higher AP. So have we?
 
DTG499 said:
Ok if it's not AP based then we should have seen a person who has a lower AP soul crush someone who has a higher AP. So have we?
Not to my knowledge, but that doesn't prove your argument. The 7 or 8 times a fodder character (In comparison to the person doing the Soul Crushing) has survived being in close proximity to a character hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than them and been completely unaffected disproves your argument. Regardless, I'm 99% sure this discussion has been had a dozen times and it being based on Soul Resistance is what we use, if you want to change that, you're welcome to try.
 
So basically it's just inconsistent writing and there are no cases where it ignores the dura of higher level or comparable being. Got it. Yeah the soul manipulation for aura that isn't even listed. Go make a CRT and get that fixed.
 
Ichigo has the ap advantage. It doesn't matter if it is reliant on ap (when it isn't), because Ichigo is stronger here. The soul crush should work regardless.
 
DTG499 said:
So basically it's just inconsistent writing. Got it. Yeah the soul manipulation for aura that isn't even listed. Go make a CRT and get that fixed.
Maybe learn what an inconsistency is? If it happens that many times it's not an inconsistency, it's something you need to accept and realize DoomSlayer probably gets passively smudged into the ground (Based on what I've read in this thread of course since iirc the only Soul Resistance feat you've provided is the lost souls thing). Soul Manipulation is listed on their profiles... You realize this is a verse where 80% of the characters are Souls and almost every attack they have is Soul Based?
 
Keeweed said:
Ichigo has the ap advantage. It doesn't matter if it is reliant on ap (when it isn't), because Ichigo is stronger here. The soul crush should work regardless.
Not while berserk is on, it's a 10x amp to dura and AP.
279B15BB-98B6-4CD4-B675-CDE1F8A5E064
 
Soul Crushing is passive so the Doom Slayer wouldn't have a chance to use berserk. The Slayer dies instantly here.
 
Keeweed said:
Soul Crushing is passive so the Doom Slayer wouldn't have a chance to use berserk. The Slayer dies instantly here.
The scenario is that he starts of with berserk already on. And again Ichigo has never killed someone who has comparable AP with aura crush.
 
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