The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Tons of characters get beaten because they hold back.

He wasn't just beaten he was killed given an hole through his chest had his hands chop off. We also have no reason to assume he was holding back.

Doesn't mean High 3-A. And one instance of such scaling doesn't prove it's consistent

Just recently she stated she is power without limits after overpowering an entropy shield.
And his death and his enemies defeat happened in the same comic so consistent, also Carol now has the Nega bands.
Another thing to take into account was that he is bell using his blasts weren't able to overpower his enemies absorbing ability but Carol did.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

We also have no reason to assume he was holding back

We also have no reason to assume he was going all out

Just recently she stated she is power without limits after overpowering an entropy shield

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

No but why we assume that Genis hold back just as much as characaters like Thor and Hulk? His varies ratings lacks any justification

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

We also have no reason to assume he was going all out

He was killed, there is no reason why a person that is dying to hold back and just the fact that she can kill him already means not holding back.

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Her enemy was called an endless void because of his entropy ability that was killing people just on his presence alone.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

No but why we assume that Genis hold back just as much as characaters like Thor and Hulk?

I guess his page is just outdated.

His varies ratings lacks any justification

Eh, the CRT that gave those ratings never really explains it. It seems like it's the old "X tier, Y tier at peak" that other Marvel Comics characters are currently using

there is no reason why a person that is dying to hold back

no reason

Hahaha

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Hahaha

Thor is a special one and even then he is taking a beating not dying, Thor didn't had his hands chopped off and still holding back.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

even then he is taking a beating not dying

He's a big monster who's gonna kill us both if you don't stop holding back.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Again aside Thor being a special case of someone known for holding back he wasn't significantly damaged not like having his hands chopped off.
The worse part is that Genis vell is not even dead at the moment he died and was resurrected by the villain to use has she wishes and still considered Genius vell not worth it because she actually wanted Carol and the Nega bands.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Also would this classify for life manipulation resistance? Humans were dying for having their life force drained yet Captain Marvel was fine and was evacuating them

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

The worse part is that Genis vell is not even dead at the moment he died and was resurrected by the villain to use has she wishes and still considered Genius vell not worth it because she actually wanted Carol and the Nega bands.

Regardless, even if this is a High 3-A feat, I'm not convinced with the scaling without more consistency

Her enemy was called an endless void because of his entropy ability that was killing people just on his presence alone.

Okay

Also would this classify for life manipulation resistance? Humans were dying for having their life force drained yet Captain Marvel was fine and was evacuating them

I guess if the entropic field doesn't just target the life energy of humans, it should be something

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Regardless, even if this is a High 3-A feat, I'm not convinced with the scaling without more consistency

I asked here and not made a CRT because i know i need more proof, but this being a high 3-A should be important to in the future upgrade it, im not even going to make a CRT until this new arc ends, this was only the first issue.

Okay

I guess if the entropic field doesn't just target the life energy of humans, it should be something

He never said anything about specifically targeting humans to begin with he is not human and its not the first time he has done this, planet earth was just his next stop.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I asked here and not made a CRT because i know i need more proof, but this being a high 3-A should be important to in the future upgrade it, im not even going to make a CRT until this new arc ends, this was only the first issue.

Well, the feat could be 5-B. It could be High 3-A. It could be the writer jobbing Genis-Vell. It could be Genis-Vell's page being outdated

He never said anything about specifically targeting humans to begin with he is not human and its not the first time he has done this, planet earth was just his next stop.

Then sure, probably life manipulation resistance

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Well, the feat could be 5-B. It could be High 3-A. It could be the writer jobbing Genis-Vell. It could be Genis-Vell's page being outdated

IS anyone gonna revise his page anytime soon?

Then sure, probably life manipulation resistance

Would it be fine to add or should wait?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Since we are at it might as well add immortality type 1 and 3

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Since we are at it might as well add immortality type 1 and 3

Immortality Type 3 is fine. Not very confident on Immortality Type 1 since it's not 100% confirmed she wasn't aging at all, though that's still Longevity

IS anyone gonna revise his page anytime soon?

Eventually. Maybe

Would it be fine to add or should wait?

Probably wait

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Immortality Type 3 is fine. Not very confident on Immortality Type 1 since it's not 100% confirmed she wasn't aging at all, though that's still Longevity

His opinion is of someone we can trust and he states she isnt aging, hims saying "as far as i can tell" its not really grounds for a doubt

Eventually. Maybe

Ok i guess i will wait as i said it will still take some time until i would brought it up anyways

Probably wait

ok

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

hims saying "as far as i can tell" its not really grounds for a doubt

That doesn't mean she isn't aging at all

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

That doesn't mean she isn't aging at all

He stated that she isnt shedding skin cells or hair then he states she isnt even aging so far as i can tell, he specifically states she isnt aging.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

he states she isnt even aging so far as i can tell, he specifically states she isnt aging.

Exactly. "as far as [he] can tell", not "at all"

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Exactly. "as far as [he] can tell", not "at all"

as far as he can tell its a scientist thing to say because he made all tests his tech allows to, its one of the best marvel genius who said that not a rookie

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

as far as he can tell its a scientist thing to say because he made all tests his tech allows to, its one of the best marvel genius who said that not a rookie

I know who Beast is. I know he is a genius mutant scientist. Doesn't change the fact that his statement in no shape or form means that Carol was not aging at all

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I actually have a question I just read Genis vell solo comic and it talks about Death having a sister called Life i thought Phoenix was "life". Anyone knows anything about this "life"?

 

[Tomfer]

I actually have a question I just read Genis vell solo comic and it talks about Death having a sister called Life i thought Phoenix was "life". Anyone knows anything about this "life"?

According to her Marvel wiki profile, there's almost nothing on her since she only appeared on 3 issues.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Genis vell with the nega bands is dead by the same person Carol without using the nega bands defeated wouldnt that grant her high 3-A at least?

Also would this classify for life manipulation resistance? Humans were dying for having their life force drained yet Captain Marvel was fine and was evacuating them

Since we are at it might as well add immortality type 1 and 3

bump

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Carol likely has the current greatest amount of Plot-Induced Stupidity (The writer is completely on your side no matter what, due to a misguided form of political correctness) in Marvel Comics. Hence, she can basically beat up anybody, due to "Grrrrl Powah! Rawr!", and fear of the social campaigning of the Carol Corps. Skyfather Thor, who has two explicit feats of a fully multiversal scale, Genis-Vel, who literally destroyed the entire multiverse, including multiversal Eternity, once, anybody, despite that I think that Carol's greatest upper limit explicit feats are Star level at best.

She also gets away with horrible moral transgressions (For example, locking up lots of people without a trial for crimes they haven't committed yet, and murdering Iron Man without the slightest apology or sense of remorse afterwards, despite that he had gone to great lengths to help her recover from her alcoholism previously), and generally being a callous jerk, while still somehow being perceived as a good guy. Not nearly to a Krakoa era X-Men level, as they have been depicted as amoral, gladiatorial blood games for entertainment, supremacists, who causally pal around with and are ruled by some people who are morally fully comparable with Mao, Hitler, and Stalin (Apocalypse, Mister Sinister, Mystique, Sebastian Shaw, and Exodus, for example), and Magneto (who is an ends justifies the means supremacist terrorist) and the White Queen (who is an absolutely conceited sadistic and elitistic serial-rapist) and similarly immoral characters were mainstays in their team long before that, but nevertheless.

As such, I am not sure what we should do with Carol in terms of tiering. She has basically turned into what Squirrel Girl used to be, except that Squirrel Girl was intended to be a parody of plot-induced stupidity, and she was actually likeable and funny.

Mind you, I am all in favour of girl power, as women have been treated absolutely horribly all across this world throughout history, and they still are in quite a lot of countries, despite that they are usually considerably nicer than men, but I do not think that Carol has usually been portrayed as a good example of it, but rather as a callous, hollow, and boring self-righteous authoritarian thug.

And it is kind of hard to empathise with the X-Men as good guys anymore, since they have systematically dismantled and undermined the inherent value of the genuinely heroic ideal to such an enormous degree over the years.

 

[Tomfer]

I need some help with this:

Moon Knight's mental resistance/willpower is stated by Doctor Strange to be so strong that not even him would be able to break it through. Would that mean that MK's mental resistance would layered or something like that?

 

[Eseseso]

I need some help with this:

Moon Knight's mental resistance/willpower is stated by Doctor Strange to be so strong that not even him would be able to break it through. Would that mean that MK's mental resistance would layered or something like that?

Yep, tier 1!

If Moondragon's mind-hax is Xavier level then it's low 1-A, otherwise it'd depend on what dimensionality Umar is, so somewhere in the Low 1-C to 1-C range.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Anyone? If there needs to be an issue listed, it's in Spider-Verse vol 3 issue 5

?

 

[Tomfer]

Yep, tier 1!

My reaction to that information:

Moon Knight fans (only me) stay winning.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Doctor Strange is mentally slightly superior to Moondragon, who is powerful enough to significantly affect the mind of Galactus, whereas Professor X is explicitly not, so it seems like a writer overlooked just how powerful Doctor Strange actually is on a mental level, i.e. that it is an outlier.

 

[Eseseso]

Well, Doctor Strange is mentally slightly superior to Moondragon, who is powerful enough to significantly affect the mind of Galactus, whereas Professor X is explicitly not, so it seems like a writer overlooked just how powerful Doctor Strange actually is on a mental level, i.e. that it is an outlier.

Eh, Strange illusion haxxed Galactus's mind, plus in a recent issue IIRC he resisted the mind stone.

Also IIRC he broke through Shuma Goraths mental defenses once to rescue the ancient one (but I forget the issue), and he has endured mind hax from other beings like Nightmare. He also resisted Chthon's mind hax but barely.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. That is why I think that it seems very strange (npi) that Moon Knight should be able to resist it.

 

[Tomfer]

I'm not a tier 1 expert so bear with me:

MK's mind resistance being tier 1 makes sense since Khonshu himself altered Marc's mind, being compared to a "colonization" of sorts, and we currently consider Khonshu being above Strange's magic with a statement of Age of Khonshu. We later see this colonization being used in-combat as a form of a "pocket dimension" inside Mister Knight's mind.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind (also npi). It is probably fine to add this ability to Moon Knight then.

 

[Tomfer]

It is probably fine to add this ability to Moon Knight then.

Oh, it's already there. I just wanted to know if that would be layered of not.

(also npi)

What's npi?

 

[Antvasima]

"No pun intended".

 

[Tomfer]

"No pun intended".

Oooh, lmao. I was thinking that you were talking about non-physical interaction for a sec, that's why I was so confused.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Well, Carol likely has the current greatest amount of Plot-Induced Stupidity (The writer is completely on your side no matter what, due to a misguided form of political correctness) in Marvel Comics. Hence, she can basically beat up anybody, due to "Grrrrl Powah! Rawr!", and fear of the social campaigning of the Carol Corps. Skyfather Thor, who has two explicit feats of a fully multiversal scale, Genis-Vel, who literally destroyed the entire multiverse, including multiversal Eternity, once, anybody, despite that I think that Carol's greatest upper limit explicit feats are Star level at best.

It really doesnt matter why she has that feats, we could easily say the same for the most popular characters such as Hulk, Thor, Superman even Wolverine, all of which have very inconsistent scalings because as fast as Hulk is a multiversal character he goes back to planet or Thor who litearlly needs a entire note to explain why he is so inconsistent.
If this "polical correctness" makes her tier go to universal we have to accept as much as we accepted Monica (photon) universal despite being a black women whose feats were much lower than the current ones.

She also gets away with horrible moral transgressions (For example, locking up lots of people without a trial for crimes they haven't committed yet, and murdering Iron Man without the slightest apology or sense of remorse afterwards, despite that he had gone to great lengths to help her recover from her alcoholism previously), and generally being a callous jerk, while still somehow being perceived as a good guy. Not nearly to a Krakoa era X-Men level, as they have been depicted as amoral, gladiatorial blood games for entertainment, supremacists, who causally pal around with and are ruled by some people who are morally fully comparable with Mao, Hitler, and Stalin (Apocalypse, Mister Sinister, Mystique, Sebastian Shaw, and Exodus, for example), and Magneto (who is an ends justifies the means supremacist terrorist) and the White Queen (who is an absolutely conceited sadistic and elitistic serial-rapist) and similarly immoral characters were mainstays in their team long before that, but nevertheless.

Dont wanna turn this into a civil war 3 in here but she had her reasons for doing it, and dont make Iron Man seem like a "poor innocent man" during Civil war he was probably worse than Carol, he kidnapped Ullyses to experiment on him and then forcefully took control of the inhumans, the whole war didnt started because of what Carol did but because of Rhodes death that he blamed on Carol despite knowing full well that heroes die on the job and Carol was also suffering with his loss.
And Carol does regret killing Iron man if you followed more about her comics you would know that.

As such, I am not sure what we should do with Carol in terms of tiering. She has basically turned into what Squirrel Girl used to be, except that Squirrel Girl was intended to be a parody of plot-induced stupidity, and she was actually likeable and funny.

I like her, take it whatever way you want.

Mind you, I am all in favour of girl power, as women have been treated absolutely horribly all across this world throughout history, and they still are in quite a lot of countries, despite that they are usually considerably nicer than men, but I do not think that Carol has usually been portrayed as a good example of it, but rather as a callous, hollow, and boring self-righteous authoritarian thug.

I think its ridiculous how easy it was to forget Iron man and his awful personality and what he did in civil war just because Robert Downey Jr is an excelent actor who made Tony Stark look good.
But Carol has to be stuck for what happened in Civil war as if thats the only thing she did,
Im not saying you aor anyone are sexist or whatever, but the only reason she become so hated was because when civil war 2 happened MCU Tony was already a fan favorite, so he gets blind faith, Carol gets blind hate because if Civil war 2 wasnt enough the misunderstanding about what Bree Larson said only made it worse, and just like what happened for Iron Man people arent able to separate MCU from comics

And it is kind of hard to empathise with the X-Men as good guys anymore, since they have systematically dismantled and undermined the inherent value of the genuinely heroic ideal to such an enormous degree over the years.

I read very little about X men, so I dont have what it takes to talk about that.

 

[LordTracer]

Remember how the OP of this thread says this?

pseudo-politics pushing hypocrisy gtfo

How about we follow that guideline, hm?

 

[Antvasima]

It really doesnt matter why she has that feats, we could easily say the same for the most popular characters such as Hulk, Thor, Superman even Wolverine, all of which have very inconsistent scalings because as fast as Hulk is a multiversal character he goes back to planet or Thor who litearlly needs a entire note to explain why he is so inconsistent.
If this "polical correctness" makes her tier go to universal we have to accept as much as we accepted Monica (photon) universal despite being a black women whose feats were much lower than the current ones.

Spectrum/Photon has explicit feats of that scale though.

Dont wanna turn this into a civil war 3 in here but she had her reasons for doing it, and dont make Iron Man seem like a "poor innocent man" during Civil war he was probably worse than Carol, he kidnapped Ullyses to experiment on him and then forcefully took control of the inhumans, the whole war didnt started because of what Carol did but because of Rhodes death that he blamed on Carol despite knowing full well that heroes die on the job and Carol was also suffering with his loss.
And Carol does regret killing Iron man if you followed more about her comics you would know that.

Okay. That is not at all my impression from other interactions I have seen between them though.

I like her, take it whatever way you want.

Well, I find her bland, hollow, extremely boring, and thug-ish, but I do not force you to agree.

I think its ridiculous how easy it was to forget Iron man and his awful personality and what he did in civil war just because Robert Downey Jr is an excelent actor who made Tony Stark look good.
But Carol has to be stuck for what happened in Civil war as if thats the only thing she did,
Im not saying you aor anyone are sexist or whatever, but the only reason she become so hated was because when civil war 2 happened MCU Tony was already a fan favorite, so he gets blind faith, Carol gets blind hate because if Civil war 2 wasnt enough the misunderstanding about what Bree Larson said only made it worse, and just like what happened for Iron Man people arent able to separate MCU from comics

Look, Tony Stark has a history of going out of his way to help Carol on a personal level, and she still flat-out killed him, and has then behaved like a complete jerk towards him afterwards during the interactions between them that I have seen.

I read very little about X men, so I dont have what it takes to talk about that.

Okay. Jonathan Hickman seems to have deliberately deconstructed them into flat-out amoral bloodthirsty supremacist villains, but since the other (considerably less intelligent) editors and writers at Marvel Comics did not catch on to this until it was too late, the X-Men as a comic book brand is basically destroyed now, although Al Ewing and others seem to have set up an extremely powerful cosmic entity known as "The Dominion" as responsible for manipulating reality to cause this situation.