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Genis-Vell Downgrade and possible Upgrade

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Confluctor

Confluctor

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Genis-Vell

Genis-Vell, also known as Legacy, Captain Marvel, and Photon, is a fictional superhero turned supervillain appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. He is depicted as the son of Mar-Vell of the extraterrestrial Kree Empire, who was the first character to be known as Captain...
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Proposal:
  • 5A - Fought Super Skrull briefly (CM 1999 #9) and Surfer (Legacy Vol 1), Hulk and Wendigo (CM 1999 # 2- 3),
    • This is when he is holding back and during his legacy days
  • 4B - Fought Drax (CM 1999 #4 - 5), the Sentry, Magus (CM 1999 #19 and again in #32 - 34), Maestro(CM 1999 #30) - this also supports his 5A key, King Thor,
    • This is him normally
  • 2A. likely Low 1-C - Destroyed Eternity with the help of Entropy, then restarted the universe by shooting Entropy - who then replaced Eternity. (CM 2002 #5 -6)
    • him at peak.
      • his current Mad God key needs to be removed as there was no amp in place.



Currently his rating is 4B because he stalemated the Sentry. That is indeed. True... But the other has 5A key and that might be confusing for some. So, downgrade time!

But... He is still solar system, don't worry. He just needs to get a new key. 5A normally (scaling from Surfer, Ronan, Annihilus, Hulk, Super Skrull), 4B at peak (for this feat from New Thunderbolts #14).
  • He and the Sentry destroy worlds while shrunken down to subatomic level. We use that as a supporting feat for Sentry's 4B, so why not do the same here?

There is also this feat from Captain Marvel 2002 #7 -#8 where he fights king Thor, and then some demons who were giving Thor and blader and others trouble. (There are too many scans, so not sure which one to post, but it's in the 8th issue of the series.)


Now for the Upgrade:
In New Thunderbolts #18 we learn that at one point in the future Genis-Vell will destroy the universe. Err... I know how future versions are not canon and all, they don't scale to anything and are pretty much useless. But I think he should get a "Potentially 3-A or 2C" key. He hasn't done it yet, but he has potential to do something like that.

There is also this feat of him from the HoM reality where he accidentally cause the collapse of that reality for a very brief period of time. The feat in question happens in New Thunderbolts #11.

In thunderbolts #100, Zemo says this about him and his power.

There is also this feat from Infinity Abyss where he survives a hit from Omega Thanosi

What do you guys think?


Edit; why have we split his profile into 2 keys? The Mad God version of him didn't receive a power amp as long as I can remember. Yes, he was doing Entropy's bidding, but his power wasn't increased. He just put him in situation where his power would go wild. If I am wrong, please correct me.

Otherwise I think his 2A, likely Low 1C key needs to be merged into ONE.
 
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I only found one calc which was at 4A, where is the 3A one?

Also great, I guess we can use that as a supporting one. But I believe the shrunken feat is still valid
 
Oh also, were they shrunk by Pym Particles? Your strength doesn't proportionally reduce when you're shrunk by them, this is actually the core mechanic of them and why Ant-Man can like... do shit.

So inventing proportions when they don't exist is like... wankish if that's the case, otherwise of not this has more merit but you still have to prove their strength is proportionally decreasing when the verse blatantly has methods to counteract that
 
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The_Impress said:
No the calc
Click to expand...
I requested a new calc in the request forum, will have to wait what it yields and after some evaluation, that will end up being used for one of his stats.

The_Impress said:
So show the scan that states they got progressively weaker the more they were shrunk :v
Click to expand...
I don't think their powers grow weaker there, during the run, he has shown similar power levels both in the normal universe and when shrunken down.
 
Confluctor said:
I requested a new calc in the request forum, will have to wait what it yields and after some evaluation, that will end up being used for one of his stats.
Click to expand...
K
Confluctor said:
I don't think their powers grow weaker there, during the run, he has shown similar power levels both in the normal universe and when shrunken down.
Click to expand...
...I mean you do recognize he is blowing up atoms there, right? And not, Solar Systems. All the calcs seem to assume he got weaker proportionally upon entering the Microverse, prove to me this indeed is the case :/
 
And FYI for the longest time we did have like, tippity top of Herald tier at 4-A, until that calc got yeeted for missing context, so like, "hurr durr they no assept hiher than 4-b heralds" is a dumbass sentiment, if you have the feats, show them (granted as long as its not a repeat of prior debunked feats)
 
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Leaving aside the 4B stuff, let's discuss the potential 3A/2C key instead.

I am a bit busy today (some stuff came up) so I can't activately look for scans of their power levels when shrunken down but can do that at a later time.
 
Confluctor said:
Leaving aside the 4B stuff, let's discuss the potential 3A/2C key instead.

I am a bit busy today (some stuff came up) so I can't activately look for scans of their power levels when shrunken down but can do that at a later time.
Click to expand...
Take your time.

5-A proposals seem fine.

See I think it it's context to Eternity it's no longer like, 3-A/2-C, and do note, scans do imply it's in context to Eternity, so better to go 2-A, possibly Low 1-C, otherwise it's downplay.

Now regarding future feats however... this is where shit gets really wonky.

Marvel has like, repeatedly stated versions of future which just, don't ******* happen, and reaching to those points require alotta development and context. This alt. future proposal is especially suspicious given it comes from what seems to be a single storyline, so I will be very blunt and say it's really misrepresentative to list this on Genis-Vell's file when we have VERY well seen other things contribute to the end of the universe and this narrative has been contradicted. Marvel does these soft retcons from time to time and this does just feel like that.
 
Yeah but those futures were specifically altered by Zemo, which is why he "kills' him here in the now so none of those futures happen. He didn't want Photon to just eradicate the universe, that's why I believe he should get a potential key (whom no one scales from in any form or shape).

And yeah, marvel futures don't come true, that's true. But this was specifically altered because Genis unleashing everything would end the universe. And his Mad God saga doesn't contradict any of those future stuff.
  • Now unless someone can prove that he was amped during the madgod arc, then that's different. But I don't remember he was. He was just manipulated to act in certain ways so he could finally kill eternity.


Anyway, if we do stop separating the two keys, he won't need a "potential" key tbh. His 2A, likely Low 1C key will already cover that. That's him at his peak.
 
Confluctor said:
Yeah but those futures were specifically altered by Zemo, which is why he "kills' him here in the now so none of those futures happen. He didn't want Photon to just eradicate the universe, that's why I believe he should get a potential key (whom no one scales from in any form or shape).
Click to expand...
Scaling isn't a factor, mind you. It's just promoting uneven standards on the verse, we have plenty of those active already, we don't want more of 'em.
Confluctor said:
And yeah, marvel futures don't come true, that's true. But this was specifically altered because Genis unleashing everything would end the universe. And his Mad God saga doesn't contradict any of those future stuff.
Click to expand...
Confluctor said:
Now unless someone can prove that he was amped during the madgod arc, then that's different. But I don't remember he was. He was just manipulated to act in certain ways so he could finally kill eternity.
Click to expand...
Again though, any context you're providing isn't really changing the factor it's an alternative future, which are just alternative universes with how unlikely they are to happen
Confluctor said:
Anyway, if we do stop separating the two keys, he won't need a "potential" key tbh. His 2A, likely Low 1C key will already cover that. That's him at his peak.
Click to expand...
We can do that, but you'll probably need more input before you upgrade someone to Tier 1.

Update the OP to reflect current status of discussion, I'll notify Ant then
 
Confluctor said:
Proposal:
  • 5A - Fought Super Skrull briefly (CM 1999 #9) and Surfer (Legacy Vol 1), Hulk and Wendigo (CM 1999 # 2- 3),
    • This is when he is holding back and during his legacy days
  • 4B - Fought Drax (CM 1999 #4 - 5), the Sentry, Magus (CM 1999 #19 and again in #32 - 34), Maestro(CM 1999 #30) - this also supports his 5A key, King Thor,
    • This is him normally
  • 2A. likely Low 1-C - Destroyed Eternity with the help of Entropy, then restarted the universe by shooting Entropy - who then replaced Eternity. (CM 2002 #18)
    • him at full power.
      • his current Mad God key needs to be removed as there was no amp in place.
Click to expand...
here
 
...mate realize if you're proposing base Low 1-C Genis this is getting yeeted in a second considering it's outliery as shit

Anyways @Antvasima Genis-Vell's Low 1-C at peak upgrade, get this checked
 
What Impress has accepted seems to make sense to me.

What doesn't make sense is that Eternity is possibly Low 1-C via power-scaling in the first place, given that it would mean that each universal version of Eternity can easily destroy an infinite amount of each other, but Marvel is batshit insane in several respects, so I do not know if we can do anything about it.
 
I mean it's not uncommon for verses to have different definitions of structures with respect to ours, that's the core concept of the wiki, no? :v
 
The_Impress said:
it's outliery as shit
Click to expand...
I mean... Is it really tho? The whole story until #18 was building his powers up to that point. And the reason his later appearances aren't as powerful is because he went sane again and gained control over his powers and whatnot.

I mean if it would be an outlier if it has no proper build up or anything. And again, the canon doesn't treat 616 as a 2A, likely Low 1C, we do.
 
Confluctor said:
I mean... Is it really tho? The whole story until #18 was building his powers up to that point. And the reason his later appearances aren't as powerful is because he went sane again and gained control over his powers and whatnot.
Click to expand...
...are you purposely missing the point of the argument or something? This is in context to his peak, yes congratulations Confluctor you did describe the peak right there.... why are you arguing against me then?
Confluctor said:
And again, the canon doesn't treat 616 as a 2A, likely Low 1C, we do.
Click to expand...
Mate he's hurting Eternity there very blatantly, what are you on about?
 
So what should we do here, and should I call for more knowledgeable members to help us out?
 
So have we reached sufficient support for these suggestions already?
 
Okay. They can probably be applied then.
 
Does this work?

5A, 4B normally, 2A, possibly 1-C at peak
Click to expand...
Large Planet Level (Fought Silver Surfer, Super Skrull, and Hulk), 4B normally (Fought Magus, King Thor, the Sentry), Multiverse level+, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (Helped Entropy to destroy Eternity and brought everything back by shooting Entropy)
Click to expand...
 
Well, you need to use 5-A, not 5A, etcetera, in the tier section, and also Solar System level, not 4B, in the attack potency section.
 
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