The rematch

[Ionliosite]

Well, Apophis is Low 6-B so I'd say Issei is good in that area.

Didn't Issei only used his DxD form againts him?

 

[GoodDaySir]

No, he starts with CxC until evantually forced to use DxD.

Note that Issei is using Dragon Slayer to harm him and Penetrate to Bypass his defense, which I remember to be either a magic barrier or wall of Primordial Water that dissolve or disintigrate anything it touches. Either one of those two or both at the same time, I forgot about that part a bit.

When he use DxD, he can harm Apophis without Ascalon.

 

[Ionliosite]

Well, I misremembered that. Shido can still turn him into a child or into another thing.

Also there is Shido's AZ, which Issei can't resist.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yeah, although it could sound like a NLF, Penetrate is clearly not meant to be restricted by the power of the defense in question. It has bypassed the defenses of much stronger opponents and defenses better than barriers with no issue.

If we want to judge it by AP though, as GDS said, CxC bypassed Apophis' defense and base Ise bypassed the defense of someone who's at least 6-C (Rizevim). There's also other stuff like Thanatos not wanting to face Penetrate directly despite being stronger than CxC w/ partial Dragon Deification.

Camael: It's not just regular Regenerationn. This Regenerationn is able to resurrect him from death and restores his own stamina as long as he has mana.

My post about this is meant to imply that Ise can't kill him without decapitation or Blazing Inferno which would completely disintegrate and reduce to ashes. Not sure what you mean here, but if you mean to say he can resurrect from such extreme methods of destruction, what's the point of the match if Ise can't do anything to win?

Penetrate bypasses defense on what scale, because the barrier can tank Large island+ attacks.

It's been mentioned above.

I didn't say he continuously use March I said he could use march. Though when he used March he was able to fight nibecol who could fight kurumi and other spirts. Though that doesn't matter, because in beserk his spirit power continuously increases and will cause a large country+ explosion.Though I'm not sure how long that would take since it was stopped.

Alright, I just asked about it that way since you said March would recover the debuff from Divide.

Shido does have absolute zero, and yoshinos defensive ice could tank a blow from Inverse tohka, who did a large island attack something this issei won't get through.

I acknowledged that, but that kind of absolute zero is no longer considered as durability negation so it's not a game changer. Penetrate ignores defenses as said above, but you should update Shido's page with that information as High 6-C durability with Zadkiel is only in his first key.

And with Haniel Shido can turn issei into a child or just turn him into something that can't attack like a stick or something.

Fair enough, those would work but it's dependant on how or at what point Shido would use it. His page indicates that he simply used it to turn some people to girls and no one has provided another instance of berserk Shido using it in combat, so it's fair to say he wouldn't start with it in that manner except I'm missing something. As he can regenerate from fatal attacks and Ise would notice this quickly, it's likely he would use Blazing Inferno as it was against 666.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Actually, shouldn't resistance to biological manipulation help with getting turned into a child at least?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It should, yeah.

 

[Ionliosite]

Issei has never used Blazing Inferno in CxC in character nor I'm sure if he can use it.

Also Age manip =\= Biological manip, and if it is the same it should be added to the pages of both abilities.

 

[GoodDaySir]

I think, Haniel is the big elephent in the room, but isn't Haniel is lacking in range?

Since the range is only 2 Km and SBA means both combatants start at 4 km away from each other.

Regardless if Shido manage to turn Issei into a child or anyother thing that makes Issei incapable of fighting and Shido has done this in the past, I am voting for Shido.

 

[HyperNepsy]

Though Haniel doesn't just does turn people into child's. It can turn people into non attacking forms so they cant fight anymore.

I don't think range is a problem is issei is gonna dash at Shido.

And the ressurection will only keep going until shido's mana runs out. Also issei doesn't resist AZ

 

[Schnee_One]

AZ won't kill Issei due to the AP gap that he will have.

 

[HyperNepsy]

Well sure but the other arguments still stand

 

[Schnee_One]

Issei dashing at him with the speed will be very easy.

And with the speed gap Shido gets killed before he can activate his stuff

 

[HyperNepsy]

This issei is like what, sub rel i think. This shido is rel+. I'd don't think even with some boosts he would be close to blitzing shido

 

[Schnee_One]

...Speed is Equal.....

You literally wrote that in the OP yourself......

 

[HyperNepsy]

I know that. I just know speed amps are allowed when speed is equal.

 

[Schnee_One]

Then why are you mentioning the speed of both characters?

 

[HyperNepsy]

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Issei fra

 

[Schnee_One]

BTW If Issei wins this It can't be added due to his speed advantage in a speed equal fight

This isn't to say "Stop the debate" but it does mean that this can't be added

 

[Ionliosite]

Why would Issei blitz Shido?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Speed amp via Boost.

 

[Ionliosite]

Speed amp via Boost.

Since when Boost increases Issei's speed?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2482716

if u go to this thread and Control F "Does Boost increase speed as well?"

Demonic jester explains and has a scan for why it does

 

[Ionliosite]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2482716

if u go to this thread and Control F "Does Boost increase speed as well?"

Demonic jester explains and has a scan for why it does

Isn't it very inconsistent? Aside from that moment in which other moment it worked like that? Because I can't recall any other time happening.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Another time Boost increased speed

"I made the thrusters on my back go to the maximum, and went towards Sairaorg-san head on. Sairaorg-san also covered his body with Touki, and jumped towards me by kicking the ground! Mine and Sairaorg-san's fists crossed head on! Our fists landed on each others faces like a cross-counter! GOON! Even though I was wearing armour, the intense pain that felt like it will burst my insides went to my head! The helmet got destroyed with that attack! But! I haven't started yet! Let's do it Ddraig! [Ou!] [Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost! Boost!!] The boosted power went to my fist. It increased its speed the moment it hit Sairaorg-san's face! BAAAAAAAAAN!"

 

[Ionliosite]

I mean, isn't that the same that Demonic Jester said?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

This was the first thing jester said

It actually does boost speed. This is from Volume 1, and a moment in which Issei was only promoted to Rook, not even Queen or Knight: "Raynare is flapping her black wings, and is about to fly away. Is she trying to run away? Hey hey, you were looking down and laughing at me till a few seconds ago. You run away as soon as you find out that you can't win? Who do you think you are? But I won't let you escape. Like hell I would! TAP I went up to her at the same time she's about to fly, and I grabbed her arm. I have unbelievable speed. A speed that even the Fallen Angel can't react to." Prior to this Issei couldn't even cope with the movements of a casual Raynare: ""Give Asia baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!" [Dragon booster!!] The Sacred Gear on my left arm activates as if it responded to my shout. The jewel in the gauntlet makes a bright shine. Some mysterious mark appears on the gauntlet. At the same time, power flows into my body. From my left arm equipped with the Sacred Gear to my whole body. I went ahead while having my body overflow with power. -

I thrust my fist towards the Fallen Angel front of me who is smirking. Raynare dodges it easily. As if she's dancing." Save for stamina which is the cost for its functions, Boost increases all stats such as strength, demonic/magic power, durability and speed. All the basics, essentially. Divine Dividing should work in a parallel manner.

 

[HyperNepsy]

Though, once Issei comes charging shido would probably use one of the angels

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Forgot about the blitzing rule, but honestly, I'm still not sold on Boost increasing speed in that manner. It's possible he just gets faster as a side effect of his overall power increasing but I won't argue for or against it. Although yes, he gets faster by multiplying his power. Here's another part where Irina implies so:

The time for the Boosted Gear activation was finished. I also lost the boosted power within my body. My power returned to normal. How could this be!

"If you had another boost, then you could have definitely evaded that attack. We could have had a proper match. You lost because you used your Sacred Gear while not knowing the power difference between yourself and your opponent. A simple mistake can become critical in a serious fight."

Earlier in the match, she was faster than him. As for Jet though, it increases his speed quite a bit. In Vol 7, it's shown that Kiba can run circles around him and his sword swings were so fast that Ise couldn't see them, but he could match Kiba's speed with Jet. Star Sonic Booster is faster.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Issei has never used Blazing Inferno in CxC in character nor I'm sure if he can use it.

That's because it's meant to be a finishing move and Ise's normally merciful towards opponents as Ex said (which is also seemingly Shido's normal personality). In this case though, his opponent can resurrect and regenerate from fatal attacks, so there's little option for him to win without it, similar to situation against 666. Except he's stupid enough to let himself get killed when it's a one on one fight where his opponent has Regenerationn he can technically bypass with one move. He's simply going to either have to go for decap with Ascalon or destroy the body in a one on one situation like this if he wants to win.

Also, it's implied that he can use it. After Pseudo DxD was forcefully released against Thanatos, he says he'd be able to win if he uses Blazing Inferno after reverting to CxC, but can't do so due to the repercussions.

As soon as the countdown finished, Dragon Deification was lifted, and I reverted back to my crimson armour. …An instant wave of fatigue hit me. It was the repercussion of Dragon Deification. My stamina was almost completely exhausted…! The absolute flames which can burn even a god to ashes — I can't use [Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames]. I might be able to establish superiority if I use that move…but if Thanatos approaches Rossweisse-san or Bina-shi with those flames and spreads the flames that cannot be extinguished to their bodies, then…

[That's right, precisely because those are the ultimate flames, there are limitations on their use. Especially under circumstances where you have allies present, it cannot be freely used. If the flames spread to your allies, then there'll have been no point.]

…It was precisely because those flames were so powerful that there was a terrifying side to them. No, even with Dragon Deification, if I didn't control it properly, then it could have a significant impact on the world, so it was necessary to be careful when using it. I gasped for air as Thanatos approached me.

If it's not possible to use in CxC, he wouldn't have thought in that manner. In the second part, he says even if he had used it in Pseudo DxD, it would be too dangerous if he couldn't control it effectively enough (likely the AoE). His allies are almost always somewhere around his location so we'd be hard-pressed to see a situation where he can use Blazing Inferno, but it's not the case here.

If it's later flat out stated that he can't use it in CxC, then sure. I'm not certain the match could be added anyway, given some comments above.

 

[GoodDaySir]

So, Issei does have a way to put Shido down for good, and does have a slight advantage in AP, more experience, and overall just a better combatant.

Shido only card here would be his Power Mimicry and Haniel Transmutation.

Power Mimicry will not be very useful here.

The only useful abilities he would get from copying Issei would be Boost, Divide, Penetrate, and Blazing Inferno. Boost and Divide will also not very useful here because Issei already have Initial AP advantage, assuming both of them is using Boost and Divide to the best of their ability, Issei will always stay ahead of Shido in AP.

Penetrate may be able to pierce Issei armor, but Issei body can take a lot of punishment, getting two hole on his thigh and still standing, getting five hole drilled through his body and still fighting, tank Holy Lighting, etc.

Blazing Inferno also not very useful here cause Issei can just remove parts of his armor that got hit by these flame.

Most of Issei's resistances is useless cause Issei never had any ability to exploit them in the first place and Pilingual and Dress Break will not work cause Issei is a male. Shido may try to turn Issei into female via Haniel and apply Pailingual and Dress Break, but Issei has resisted such thing in the past.

All the above point is assuming Shido know how to use these ability properly from the get go and copied ability = original ability.

Finally, Haniel Transmutation, as far as I know Shido have never tried to turn his opponents into an object or a child. The only times he use Haniel is turning people into female which we already know Issei has resistant for such thing. The only times he turn people into a child is when he accidently use it on himself.

Thats all for now I think.

 

[HyperNepsy]

Actually with Haniel shido can turn people into non attacking objects. I've been saying that a lot of times now. Iirc he can also turn blast attacks into objects or something else also.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

He can but will he?

 

[HyperNepsy]

He does it in character

 

[DragonEmperor23]

In this mindless key?

 

[HyperNepsy]

Beserker shido starts off as normal then goes beserk. Though I'm not sure if this is when he's already beserk or right before he becomes it. Regardless he can do it in both

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I'm not asking if he can do it but if it's something he does in character when he's berserk.

 

[HyperNepsy]

When he was beserk he did it in character