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The rematch

HyperNepsy

HyperNepsy

886
111
Both of these characters has been through upgrades and both of these characters have been in a match before. Though that match was never finished but now it can be remade.

Shido Itsuka in his island key.

Issei Hyoudou in his island key.

Speed equalized

Both in character

Location: Open grass field.
 
Issei has 2 6C keys, the first one is Incomplete Juggernaut Drive and the other one is Post Dragon Deification CxC.

Which one you use?
 
Both JD and CxC are scaling to Maou-class, so according to our rules, it would be current CxC.

"Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version."

I have zero knowledge of DAL. Looking through Shido's page, his abilities look to be too much for Ise to deal with on paper, but how does this version of Shido fight in character? I've looked through his abilities explanation section here and in the DAL wiki and both seem to list how he uses the abilities of the angels / spirits in character. Judging from what I've read, it does not seem as though he uses all of those hax in the same manner or to the same degree as is described in his P & A section.

Also, isn't Regenerationn from brain damage now Mid?
 
Shido's 6-C key is his berserk state. The first move he did when he went berserk was to use transmutation and mind control en masse. I know Issei resists mind manipulation, but does he resist transmutation?
 
Issei doesn't resist transmutation, also I don't think Issei's mind manip resistance can resist the potency of Shido's mind manip.
 
Dunno if this could be called as resistance, but there is this one fight where Cao Cao tries to petrify Issei, When parts of his armor got petrified, he just break or remove the petrified parts and replace it with the new one.

I don't know about the detail of Shido's transmutation but if he tried to transmute Issei's armor, I think the above scenario will just happen here.
 
@Ion

Issei and other Low Class Devil back in Volume 1 has resisted mind manipulation that works on at least dozens of people on Kuoh Town.

Dunno about Shido's mind manip. potency tho.
 
It depends, Shido's mind manip comes from Miku's mind manip, so it shouldn't scale to hers or only to Shido's feats?
 
It should probably scale. IIRC, it has been stated that when he was berserk, his control over his powers increased to the point where he could use various Angels simultaneously.

Well, even if I'm wrong, in his profile it says in the range part that he can AOE mind control like Miku.
 
@Ion

So I think Issei should have no prob resisting the mind manip, maybe?

Regardless, If this comes down to hand to hand combat, I think Issei beats Shido in that area.

Also Shido is in berserk state currently no? Does that mean he is mindless or what?
 
Yeah, he maybe can resist it.

Shido has less experience in battle than Ise, but Shido still has the edge in AP.
 
About Miku, it says that she could achieve that range of control because of the speakers set up around the city, not her natural prowess without those amplifiers.

About the transmutation, if the armour would help against that like it did with Petrification, there's probably little problem but there seems to be context as to why he used it.

During the period when his powers went out of control, Shido shows a great flexibility when using <Haniel>'s powers. When the sealed Spirits cornered him, he summoned the mirror to transform everyone around him (including himself) into Shiori to make a way for his escape.

I mean, Azazel couldn't turn Ise into a girl anyway. Is there any other instance he used the ability?
 
His berserk state doesn't leave him mindless. It's just like Peter Parker in Spiderman 3, I believe.

SBA is on, so they are starting from about a 4km distance. Issei can't get in H2H range if Shido starts with hax.
 
Maybe people who know more about DAL than me should make a CRT about that mind control part.

I don't remember him transforming more things than that. His transmutation scales to Natsumi, though. She can actually do what transmutation usually does.
 
Shido uses transmutation for other things aswell. In the mio fight he had attempted to turn Mio into a non attacking object. And for some reason he has mukuro in this key? If he does then he can seal powers then which iirc he does in character after sealing. Haniel also copy's powers aswell
 
Soooo..... Shido didn't have sealing in this key? Sorry I am a bit confuse.

Anyway, Issei scale to Tobio who is stronger then Lavinia who did 6-25 Gigatons feat. Shido in this state I believe to scale to Yamai who did 22 Gigatons.

I don't exactly remember which end is accepted for Lavina tho. Depending on which got accepted Issei can have a slight advantage on AP or disadvantage on AP although it didn't really matter since he can use Boost to close the gap.
 
I don't see any number or multiplier for how much it increases his power. Just looks like your average statistics amplification.

It would be quite helpful if someone knowledgeable in DAL can describe what abilities berserk Shido used, cause I am also getting confused. He is described to have gained access to the power copy of Natsumi during the Mukuro issue in both wiki pages. Judging by a few of the above comments, the version of Shido that meets Mukuro would be either "Post Spirits Mastery" or "Post Volume 19-20".

@GDS

25 is the accepted one.
 
Yeah, I have checked them out. What I mean is that I need info on the abilities berserk Shido used. "Post Spirits Mastery" implies that he only mastered the powers of the Spirits by that point, not in his berserk state. His wiki page also states that after mastering their powers, he becomes capable of using Haniel's power mimicry. Whether this version uses the power mimicry is an important factor here.

I do have a question about Haniel in case it turns out to be important in this match. The mechanic of the power mimicry is that Haniel copies the appearance of the person and gains access to their natural abilities. It could mimic Ise's basic abilities but I want to ask if that mechanism would help to copy the Boosted Gear, since it actually comes from Ddraig's soul residing within him. If Ddraig's soul isn't within him, he wouldn't be able to use those abilities. Euclid did manage to make a replica of the Boosted Gear, but that's because he had prior information on Ddraig's soul and the Sacred Gear, and he specifically noted that even with those, he couldn't copy Ddraig's soul with the Holy Grail so it turned out to be inferior. So, would duplicating Ise's appearance really create another soul of Ddraig in the Ise copy?

It's also important for whether Divine Dividing would be copied, since Azazel said the information is recorded in Ddraig's soul.

Assuming it turns out that it can perfectly copy Ise and Ddraig's soul to a T and berserk Shido utilizes Haniel like this, I would give my vote to Shido. Natsumi's page says that the copy is inferior to the original, so Ise would be able to beat his copy without much difficulty, especially with both holy dragon slaying swords. But if we combine both the copy and Shido himself, it might be too difficult for Ise to win.
 
Haniel power copy is like a mirror and if its pointed at the opponent nastumi can use their power. She has done this with tohka and miku. Shido with Haniel was able to copy mukuro's powers which was conceptual manip and some other stuff. In this key he can use it but he hasn't. In this key he used transmutation, Mind manip, yamai's winds\weather, yoshino's ice, and the Regenerationn from kotori, and origami's teleportation.
 
So, can Haniel be use to create soul and object that reside within a person that Shido wants to mimic?

Because if not, then Shdo is just copying, basically, Boosted Gear Replica, possibly with only ability to boost his power, Pailingual, Dress Break, and all Issei's Resistence except for, possibly, Time stop.
 
Shido can copy the power of the Angels with Haniel, despite not possessing them. The Angels are basically an entity that is within the girls and their powers come from them and not from the girls themselves. I don't know if this helps.
 
Ionliosite said:
Yeah, he maybe can resist it.

Shido has less experience in battle than Ise, but Shido still has the edge in AP.
Click to expand...
Boost+Divide will halve Shido's AP and at it to his own, plus boost is another stat amp so AP will be in Issei's favor regardless.
 
Ionliosite said:
Shido can copy the power of the Angels with Haniel, despite not possessing them. The Angels are basically an entity that is within the girls and their powers come from them and not from the girls themselves. I don't know if this helps.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, it might be able to work then. That basically sounds like a creature type Sacred Gear. Although Euclid couldn't copy Ddraig's soul but I'm not sure if that's some kind of resistance or limitation on the Holy Grail's part.

If he doesn't use Haniel like this yet though, Ise still has a good chance.
 
What if Shido transmutes or mind controls him?

And the fact beserker Shido now has a passive barrier made of spirit energy.
 
I don't think Shido would get blizted. The winds coming from yamai's angel and storms would automatically push issei back. If issei somehow got close to him, the automatic teleportation would teleport him away from issei. If Shido gets hurt he would just regenerate and if he somehow died he would resurrect. If Divide is used Shido could increase his power back with March, regardless of that in beserker his power continuously rises until a explosion is caused. Shido would probably do Sandalphon gg or Haniel gg.

Edit: I just forgot Shido also has yoshino's absolute Zero ice so there's that. It can be used offensively and defensively
 
IDK about transmutation given what was said above, but looking at the pages of the other Spirits again and replying to what I can:

Sandalphon: Its abilities don't seem relevant here, energy blasts and slashes can be countered in several ways and turned back against Shido.

Camael: The basic offensive aspects such as projecting flames can also be countered by Ise's arsenal and Penetrate bypasses the defensive aspects. The important part is the Regenerationn, which Ise cannot bypass without something drastic like decapitation or Blazing Inferno, but he wouldn't do either of those except there's no other option.

Raphael: I believe Ise and his team were able to forcefully push their way through heavy raging winds used to push them away in a considerably exhausted state, so a fresh Ise would be able to do much better if the storms are used against him and he's accustomed to dodging lightning.

Metatron: The light based abilities are dangerous for Ise since he's weak to them as a devil, but nothing he hasn't faced various times. Using it as a defense would also be bypassed with Penetrate. I'd say an important part is the teleportation, but it looks to have a few weaknesses that can be exploited.

  • However, the position to which she teleports can be predicted and intercepted.
It's possible that after seeing it in action a few times, Ise would also be able to predict it and use Jet or Star Sonic Booster to quickly intercept.

  • Also, after teleporting herself, she cannot dodge an attack by teleporting again in quick succession. Tohka theorizes that Origami either can't teleport continuously
If this is the correct deduction, it's not hard to handle. Scatter shot type Dragon Shots and attacks from several cannons that can be mentally controlled would be sufficient.

  • or that she can't teleport away from an attack she couldn't predict
If I'm understanding this right, Ise should also be able to achieve this as he could dismember Cao Cao who had way better skill and technique, with a couple of feints that ultimately caught him by surprise.

  • Tohka also theorized that, if Origami is caught in an attack that is so large that it reaches to everything within the range of her teleportation, she cannot avoid taking damage.
Self-explanatory, AoE attacks would be sufficient as well, especially as the teleportation has an effective range of only a few meters.

HyperNepsy said:
And the fact beserker Shido now has a passive barrier made of spirit energy
Click to expand...
Penetrate bypasses defenses.

If Divide is used Shido could increase his power back with March, regardless of that in beserker his power continuously rises until a explosion is caused. Shido would probably do Sandalphon gg or Haniel gg.

Well, honestly, Ise doesn't really use it like that but do you have any proof that Shido can continuously double his power with March? Is there an actual number as to how much it increases his power? Cause that's what would counter Divide just like Boost can, there are various amps in DxD and only Boost can counter Divide. Like I said, it just seems like your average stats amps with no specific number given.

He has better amps than Shido, there should be no way Sandalphon would be decisive here. Even without Boost, he can use Bishop for increased demonic power, Rook for better strength and defense, and Jet + Knight for much better speed. Any amp that Shido has, Ise has better and in more areas. Is there any info on how long it'd take for this explosion to be caused anyway?

I just forgot Shido also has yoshino's absolute Zero ice so there's that. It can be used offensively and defensively

Okay, but Absolute Zero has been revised and is no longer considered durability negation for the most part.
 
Camael: It's not just regular Regenerationn. This Regenerationn is able to resurrect him from death and restores his own stamina as long as he has mana.

Penetrate bypasses defense on what scale, because the barrier can tank Large island+ attacks.

I didn't say he continuously use March I said he could use march. Though when he used March he was able to fight nibecol who could fight kurumi and other spirts. Though that doesn't matter, because in beserk his spirit power continuously increases and will cause a large country+ explosion.Though I'm not sure how long that would take since it was stopped.

Shido does have absolute zero, and yoshinos defensive ice could tank a blow from Inverse tohka, who did a large island attack something this issei won't get through.

I doubt issei would be able to get through the weather manip/Wind and etc from Yamai though due to the power of the winds Yamai

Though the metatron and sandalphon thing are pretty fine.

And with Haniel Shido can turn issei into a child or just turn him into something that can't attack like a stick or something.


So I still think Shido could win
 
Well, Issei once bypass Apophis defense and actually hurt him using combination of Penetrate and Ascalon. This was done in CxC.

Also I recall that BxB Issei once bypass Rizevim's SG Canceller.

Issei also once resist being turn into a girl iirc, dunno how this will play out with Haniel.

As for Yamai, Issei, in his rating game againt Dulio, march through a storm that Dulio created while also dodging for any incoming lightning. So weather manipulation, I'd say not really a problem here.
 
GoodDaySir said:
Well, Issei once bypass Apophis defense and actually hurt him using combination of Penetrate and Ascalon. This was done in CxC.

Also I recall that BxB Issei once bypass Rizevim's SG Canceller.

Issei also once resist being turn into a girl iirc, dunno how this will play out with Haniel.

As for Yamai, Issei, in his rating game againt Dulio, march through a storm that Dulio created while also dodging for any incoming lightning. So weather manipulation, I'd say not really a problem here.
Click to expand...
Apophis is not High 6-C tho. So I don't think Issei can bypass it, at least not in the same way.

Well, getting turned into a child is different from changing your gender, so maybe it could work.

The Dulio part is true tho.
 
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